I have an idea for the do everything couch in a hawk...

pods8

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Dec 17, 2008
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Thornton, CO
So I had a potential brainstorm on a “do it all” couch design. This would basically do couch mode, 2 person dinette, 4 person dinette, and finally bed mode. Too good to be true? Quite potentially, its just in my head at this point and executing it will be the key, haha. I’ll try and describe what I’m thinking but it might not come through.

Okay for the basic design take Mark Ingalls couch however make the bottom seat level instead of tilted AND fabricate it out of 4 separate pieces (roughly equal, dimensions will get varied as the idea develops). Backrest would be one piece and basically the same. The overall length would probably be an inch or two short on each end of the camper. There will be 4 sets of bulkheads / swing assemblies, two of which would be located under each the front and rear seat portions. To support the middle sections the inboard sleeper (I think this is the right term) on each side would have an inverted “L” notch in them to accept a piece on angle steel which would span the gap. The angle would be held front/back with a pin on the inboard side of each bulkhead. The middle cushions would have some wood strips on the back to straddle the angles. This would be “couch mode”.

For “two person dinette mode” lift off the middle cushions, pull the pins on the angles, slide them towards the front (or back) then swing up the back (or front) cushion section then slide the angles back out of the front (or back) cushion sleeper to fully remove them then put the back (or front) cushion back down. You’d now be looking at the couch sans the middle two sections. The middle sections would have two pieces of flat bar (with a slight bend) on the backs of them extending a few inches out so they could drop into some slots on the outboard side of the remaining cushions to form backrests. With Mark’s method of stowing the bench seat the backrest would only be protruding 3-5” into the 24” doorway (on my rig at least) which I think is livable and the backrest and easily be pulled up and out of the way in there is going to be a lot of in/out. A table and mounting system would be fabbed up as well but I think that will be the easier of the tasks.

For “four person dinette mode” assuming its already in two person mode you would just swing the end cushions up and drop the back into bed position. The backrest on the rear seat would likely need to be removed for any in/out as there would now only be about 8-10” of doorway exposed. The end seats would sit facing front/back and the other people would either sit on the back corners of along the side of the camper, hard to visualize what would fit best with legroom and all (the open space in the middle for legs would be around 38”x19”). While this might not be a super ideal configuration for 4 people in an extended scenario it would be workable for the occasional crappy weather situation and such.

Finally for “bed mode” the angles and cushions would go back in to make the lower bench full again and the bottom would swing up and the back would lie down. Again in this mode there should be 8-10” exposed in the doorway and at least 16” between the cabinets and bed.

Downsides to this that I’m seeing are when in dinette mode whatever is stored under the middle sections would need to be removed. I figure we can try and put more “campsite” gear there or move the stuff against the front of the camper between the seat and cabinet. The remaining storage sections under each end cushion would comprise a quarter of what is normally storable under the couch. Also when if two-person dinette you don’t have full view of the window (however a normal couch design wouldn’t either) but since the back isn’t affixed to anything it could be tossed up into the upper bunk if desired. To swing the bottom cushions up as a whole one would likely have to grab the middle angle so the unit moved as a whole. That is all that has popped into my head so far.

So does this make sense or do I need to start sketching, haha? Assuming it makes sense are people picturing any other downsides I might be glossing over? Either way between planning this out and actually getting the time to fab it up this will likely be a couple months out assuming it moves forward but I had to idea so I figured I’d get it on paper.
 
Confusion?

Alot of views and no comments, I suspect confusion. I threw together these sketches, that show the positions (sans the hardware which will take a while to detail out). I've attached a couple of Mark's pictures from one of his threads showing the supports I am talking about putting 2 under each end seat.

Options.jpg

couch_rev01.JPG

strut_lifted.JPG
 
Pods8

Neat ideas!
Some thoughts...
1. with your seats in the up position, would you still be able to sit in the camper with the top down? I use this mode a lot and is one reason I have not done a mod yet

2. 2 person dinette setup, probably will need the seat backs angled. Not sure how to do this.

3. couch setting, i would probably like the angles back here as well. More comfortable, me thinks.

4. I think your vertical supports will need cross bracing.

5. using this very flexible setup, i could see loosing a lot of storage space.

Just thinking about this does make my head spin. I think you are north of me in Seattle. If you do this, let me know and I would love to help/watch in any way I can. Would be way cool to get more flexibility.

Dave/Seattle
 
pods8 this is a nice design /idea and it looks good on paper/computer screen.

I like the concept for sure just wondering about all those pieces moving alot will it stay sturdy?Also our you going to loose storage space by doing this?
good luck and have fun with this I think it would be the first design like this that I have seen if you do it.
I just recently put a couch mod. in but it is so low tech I have not shared it .one of these days I will take some photos to share.
 
Pods8

Neat ideas!
Some thoughts...
1. with your seats in the up position, would you still be able to sit in the camper with the top down? I use this mode a lot and is one reason I have not done a mod yet

2. 2 person dinette setup, probably will need the seat backs angled. Not sure how to do this.

3. couch setting, i would probably like the angles back here as well. More comfortable, me thinks.

4. I think your vertical supports will need cross bracing.

5. using this very flexible setup, i could see loosing a lot of storage space.

Just thinking about this does make my head spin. I think you are north of me in Seattle. If you do this, let me know and I would love to help/watch in any way I can. Would be way cool to get more flexibility.

Dave/Seattle

1. Assuming the cushions are 3" thick the top of the couch would be at around 19". I'd need to drop the top to confirm what this will give me, I could likely gain an inch or two if needed by messing with the sleepers but this is round one to get the thoughts going.

2. I was planning to angle the backs, I just didn't bother to model it in CAD. My intention is the make whole setup so there is an inch or two of gap between the front/rear of the camper and the cushions. To affix the backrests I was just thinking some flat bars attached to the back rest would slide into some slots on the back of the seat. To add some recline I'd just need to bend the flat bar.

3. I agree, I just threw a 5deg recline on if for modeling but in looking up what Mark did there is potential to use some wall supports to make a recline and more upright backrest.

4. I figured during fabrication I'd just attempt the angle brackets mark did but if the fronts are rocking it wouldn't be too hard to install a brace across the top to them together (each seat individually). No need to add more unless its required.

5. Assuming you use some tubs rather than loose storage tossed underneath them you would likely have just as much storage when in couch mode. When it went over to dinette is when the stuff in the middle would need to get moved. I would say this should be able to be addressed by putting the more "needed once you get to camp" stuff there or you'd just have to slid the tub (or whatever) to the front camper wall area. Removal of some of the storage space is one of the reasons I'll be looking to mount my battery(s) under the vehicle.

I hear you on the head spin, its alot of mental gymnastics until is starts getting modeled and is easier to visualize. Mainly trying to shake out issues in major discussion right now then if it moves forward I'll be building out of new materials and won't be destroying the current stuff (need tips on making cushions if someone has them!) so if it turns out not to be a desirable setup I can pull it back out and switch back if needed.

Yeah I'm up by Paine field when I get going I can let you know so you can see what I'm up to and contribute/poach ideas as you'd like. ;)

Nice CAD work... How long did it take you?

I scrapped my work on google sketch because I found it frustrating so starting over in ACAD took me about 2hrs to figure out the geometry and then assemble to four scenarios. (mostly because I couldn't remember some commands and had issue finding them :rolleyes:).
 
pods,

This is a fascinating idea, if it can be pulled off it will be the ultimate in camper versatility. Just a couple of observations/thoughts and excuse me if they've already been mentioned.

1. It appears the seat height in 4 person dinette mode is 3"-4" higher than in 2 person mode, 17"-19" is generally acceptable with 18" being ideal.

2. In that position are the seats going to be stable or will it require another vertical leg on the camper step to hold it in position?

3. I'm sure you've considered the need for the seat cushions to overhang their supports by a couple of inches for comfortable seating.

4. How are the removable center cushions supported? Or am I just missing it?

That's about it for now, once again I think this is a great idea and will be following your progress. All the Best.
 
Pod8

Yes, your replies are very encouraging!!!
Some added notes:

Don't sacrifice the cushions. Nice thick ones are good when sleeping. Man, those 2inch over cab cushings need a lot of help....

Under the seat storage is nice now because i basically have a big box to store things in. Rigid wall hold lots of crap. In your design, the openness is good for boxes. But do remember that off road driving is not good for loose boxes. I would probably conceive of a design with a wall connecting the verticals but perhaps not full height. This would keep a lot of the little crap in, yet allow perhaps for some well planned boxes to sit in there.

More than once I have gone off road only to open the door to my stuff thrown all over the back. Never fun.

Anyhow, great work and I would love to help during the prototyping phase and would love to build one of these myself!

Dave/seattle
 
pods,
This is a fascinating idea, if it can be pulled off it will be the ultimate in camper versatility. Just a couple of observations/thoughts and excuse me if they've already been mentioned.

1. It appears the seat height in 4 person dinette mode is 3"-4" higher than in 2 person mode, 17"-19" is generally acceptable with 18" being ideal.

2. In that position are the seats going to be stable or will it require another vertical leg on the camper step to hold it in position?

3. I'm sure you've considered the need for the seat cushions to overhang their supports by a couple of inches for comfortable seating.

4. How are the removable center cushions supported? Or am I just missing it?

That's about it for now, once again I think this is a great idea and will be following your progress. All the Best.

1. Yeah during normal couch/ 2 person dinette the bottom of the seats will be at 16" so assuming 3" for seat thickness it puts it at 19, when up in bed/ 4 person dinette the bottom of the seats are on the camper ledge with is ~20" so the seats would be up around 23", no real good way around that unfortunately (that I can see at least).

2. I would think they'd be stable just like Mark's design, the levers and support lock things in and the couch back being flat also helps lock things down. The side/side part will hopefully be rigid enough with the vertical legs being tied into the floor and camper side.

3. There is currently overhang built in the front and sides, I'll leave the front as is, its the sides I'd look into minimizing the overhang as much as possible to maximize the under seat storage under each seat (as opposed to it being under the middle section).

4. The support idea was described in my long winded initial post. I was thinking some metal angle stock through notches in the two inboard sleepers under the seats and held from front to back motion with removable pins. The middle cushions would get some wood strips on the back to straddle the angle.

Pod8

Yes, your replies are very encouraging!!!
Some added notes:

Don't sacrifice the cushions. Nice thick ones are good when sleeping. Man, those 2inch over cab cushings need a lot of help....

Under the seat storage is nice now because i basically have a big box to store things in. Rigid wall hold lots of crap. In your design, the openness is good for boxes. But do remember that off road driving is not good for loose boxes. I would probably conceive of a design with a wall connecting the verticals but perhaps not full height. This would keep a lot of the little crap in, yet allow perhaps for some well planned boxes to sit in there.

More than once I have gone off road only to open the door to my stuff thrown all over the back. Never fun.

Anyhow, great work and I would love to help during the prototyping phase and would love to build one of these myself!

Dave/seattle

I have 4" cushion on the upper bunk. ;)

Front "doors" could be built across the vertical supports under the seat but then it'd be more of a cabinet than a box, which at that point I thinking initially just having them open to allow you to slide some boxes under then would be nice (perhaps custom fit).

I'll keep you posted. Probably will just start out by mocking stuff into the camper with the old bench box still in there in case this gets nixed early on. If you like it then it shouldn't be an issue to work on doubling up parts. I'm thinking I should look around for a small band saw for making the linkage and such as using a jig saw would suck...
 
Band saw! sorry, don't have one. But, I always think that a project that requires new tools is always a good one.

I think the key is getting the rotating cross bar correct is the key part. Once that is working, the rest will fall into place.

I went to the Portland Outdoor show and stan as there with FWC. I don't know if you have seen the new 2 person dinnette they have, but they have a neat way of doing the back on the chair towards the cab. They've some neat little plastic parts that fit well and the board the provides the back support is used to support the bed when it is made up. The back seat uses that fancy rotating lever arm that is used for the new bench seat. Kinda cool. Of course, the new factory dinette does not have the couch option any longer. Boo hoo.

I should have taken some pictures, but did not. sorry.

Maybe in 2 person mode you could have the couch back cushion sit up against the window or put it up on the bed. Always nice to enjoy the view when the weather is good, but I have insulation over the window now for the winter cold....

I'm getting exciting about this new mod.

Keep those ideas coming.

Dave
 
I'm thinking I should look around for a small band saw for making the linkage and such as using a jig saw would suck...

I use a Bosch saber saw, a sharp blade, and good technique. I own a good bandsaw, but prefer the Bosch. I mostly use the bandsaw for resawing work.
 
Band saw! sorry, don't have one. But, I always think that a project that requires new tools is always a good one.

I think the key is getting the rotating cross bar correct is the key part. Once that is working, the rest will fall into place.

I went to the Portland Outdoor show and stan as there with FWC. I don't know if you have seen the new 2 person dinnette they have, but they have a neat way of doing the back on the chair towards the cab. They've some neat little plastic parts that fit well and the board the provides the back support is used to support the bed when it is made up. The back seat uses that fancy rotating lever arm that is used for the new bench seat. Kinda cool. Of course, the new factory dinette does not have the couch option any longer. Boo hoo.

I should have taken some pictures, but did not. sorry.

Maybe in 2 person mode you could have the couch back cushion sit up against the window or put it up on the bed. Always nice to enjoy the view when the weather is good, but I have insulation over the window now for the winter cold....

I'm getting exciting about this new mod.

Keep those ideas coming.

Dave

Haven't seen the new dinette, worth checking out while thinking.

Yeah I figured the couch back could just get tossed up on the bed when you wanted full light through that window (or left at home if you knew it wouldn't be needed).


I use a Bosch saber saw, a sharp blade, and good technique. I own a good bandsaw, but prefer the Bosch. I mostly use the bandsaw for resawing work.

My jig saw is an old hand me down that is rather beat up and only used for rough work. I was thinking a small bench bandsaw would be easier to work the parts through but perhaps just an upgrade on the jig saw end would be workable.
 
A saber saw will do more, except thick rips...

My jig saw is an old hand me down that is rather beat up and only used for rough work. I was thinking a small bench bandsaw would be easier to work the parts through but perhaps just an upgrade on the jig saw end would be workable.

This could have been said by me, before I crossed paths with a fellow who owned a pretty good saber saw. He was going to use it to make a finish cut on trim and I was pooh-poohing the idea... until I saw his cut.

Buy good stuff, cry once. At least with the Bosch you won't have to cry that much...

Bosch 1597AVSK
 
I thought Pod8 wanted a table type saw?!? I have a nice jigsaw that I bought last year. A bit more, but nice. Craftsman. I don't have a table saw or a band saw, but if this is what you need, I do have one......

just a few miles south at that!

Dave/seattle
 
I thought Pod8 wanted a table type saw?!? I have a nice jigsaw that I bought last year. A bit more, but nice. Craftsman. I don't have a table saw or a band saw, but if this is what you need, I do have one......

just a few miles south at that!

Dave/seattle

I was talking a table mount band saw to cut rounded linkage pieces, no so much of an issue for prototyping stuff but when the finished pieces get made up is where it'd come into play. I can hack out pieces from scrap wood with what I have on hand for now though.

Along with the crappy jig saw I have a table saw, miter saw, compressor, pneumatic nailers, router, rotozip, etc. on hand by the way.
 
If I were going to prototype those supports I'd probably start with cardboard.

Roger. I also have some old scraps of 1/4" plywood and such lying around that can be used as well if something more rigid is needed.

Bummed to be gone over the weekend, I'm antsy to tinker. :D
 

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