I'm finally seeing the light on diesel engines and the US auto makers

[DirtyDog]

I was adding up my gas expenses for my last trip to Utah and came to a sobering conclusion: I can't spend this much money on fuel for a one week trip. So in the future I'm either going to have to carve out two weeks or more for a long trip or not go at all. Reality is that not going will be feasible far more often than finding two weeks free.

So this is a sad state of affairs and I find myself thinking about how I arrived here. Conclusion: our vehicle choices here in the US suck. Our big diesel engine trucks offer a 3-4 mpg advantage but at 5-7k in increased cost up front, this is a completely irrelevant advantage. The conclusion is obvious: we need better engines in this country. We all know that turbo diesel engines have been available around the world for some time and they provide fuel economy at least twice that of our full sized trucks here. Some might cite our emission standards here as the reason for the lack of diesel engine availability, but we have had a great turbo diesel engine here for years: the Mercedes found in the Sprinter vans. So it can be done.

The Ford F150 was supposed to have a diesel engine this year but it was scrapped. Consumers want these engines. At this point I am forced to conclude that the lack of availability of these engines is a conspiracy between the automotive and oil companies. Nothing else makes sense. And I'm sick of it.

So despite the fact that I believe a strong US-based manufacturing sector is vital to the recovery of this nation, and despite the fact that I go out of my way to buy American whenever possible, I have made the following conclusion:

Mahindra, bring your truck, and I will buy it.

 

[craig333]

Its not lack of engines. Cummins designed one for the half ton trucks, but the automakers, for reasons I can't fathom decided not to use it.

Fuel costs are the biggest reason I don't make more trips.

I was fascinated to see the price of diesel fluctuate so wildly on my trip to nevada. Fuel in nevada was generally about fifteen cents cheaper than Californina. Even then I saw the price go from $2.85 to $3.35. Why such a huge spread? I was very thankful that I have decent range in my truck. I was able to avoid fueling in many small towns and wait until I came to a town with decent prices.

I'm really curious to see how successful the Mahindra is, assuming it ever makes it here.

 

[HERR42]

i dont agree with your mileage advantage or 3-4. where did you get that?

 

[DirtyDog]

i dont agree with your mileage advantage or 3-4. where did you get that?


Well big gassers are getting 12-14 and diesels are getting 14-18 at best (average over a trip hauling a camper, off road etc).

 

[the fisherman]

My 03 7.3 gets about 18mpg unloaded, with 8000# behind it and the camper on the truck I still can get 16mpg. If you loaded a big block gasser that way you would see less than 10mpg for sure, I think you also have to take into account that a well taken care of oil burner will last at least twice as long as a gasser, especially if you work the gas motor as hard as the diesel, the new Ford motor is getting a solid 20 mpg and it's as quiet as any gas motor I've ever heard, I want one.

 

[DirtyDog]

My 03 7.3 gets about 18mpg unloaded, with 8000# behind it and the camper on the truck I still can get 16mpg. If you loaded a big block gasser that way you would see less than 10mpg for sure, I think you also have to take into account that a well taken care of oil burner will last at least twice as long as a gasser, especially if you work the gas motor as hard as the diesel, the new Ford motor is getting a solid 20 mpg and it's as quiet as any gas motor I've ever heard, I want one.


Well I certainly see the advantage of the US made diesel engines if you are towing some large items. However, for backcountry camping and hauling around something like a FWC, I don't think these engines are very practical at all.

 

[jmodge]

This country is loaded with large Diesels. We have mostly Internationals at work, and they run clean, smooth and with tons of power. Start good in the winter also. I don't know why they do not apply this technology to a motor small enough for light travel. Political and profit based probably.

 

[CJinCA]

We will see smaller diesel engines in utility vehicles evolve. It will just take another oil crisis or two before the American public will start the clamor. $5.00+ per gallon of fuel gets folks attention. People will think a bit more about what they need to do their daily tasks, rather than buying the biggest engine vehicle on the showroom floor.

All we have to do is look back at the last big spike in fuel prices. At that time you could hardly give away a big truck or SUV. Commercial interests still needed them, but the vast number of big pickups and SUVs owned by Joe Sixpack and Sally Soccermom were never used anywhere close to their full potential and the reality of it got them thinking about the practicality of better mileage efficient vehicles. Too bad we have such short memories.

 

[John D]

Market forces will take care of fuel economy problems. DD is making the right calculations. He will come up with ways to solve the problem, that is, a smaller lighter vehicle, slower speed of travel, less total miles driven, and other things.

I have driven the small turbo diesels in Europe. They are installed in small cars with 6 speed manual transmissions. Recently, we rented a neat little Mercedes on one of our trips. On the autobahn we usually drove 120 to 140 K per hour. I never checked the fuel mileage closely but I guess it was around 35 mpg. The engine ran more like a gasoline engine than a diesel. However, those little diesels are in relatively small cars. I don't believe the engines have as much power as the typical engine in the US, all things being equal.

 

[ntsqd]

The California Air Resources Board doesn't want diesel engines in this state. I think that they would outlaw them completely, but even they have limits on their semi-autocracy. There was a period where we could not buy a new diesel powered Merc or VW vehicle because CARB raised the emissions stds on them past the mfg's ability to comply. Created a healthy market for slightly used (7500 miles minimum before legal importation) diesel cars in neighboring states. AFAIK we still can't buy the Jeep CRD in anything.

When some of the truck mfg's had to resort to burning more fuel to clean up the emissions I have to wonder what the real goal is.

 

[realbtl]

My solution to this was to buy used. My F250-4x4, manual, 351 V8-gets about 14 mpg running at somewhere around 60-65 (the 4.10 gears crimp mileage but plenty of power) but I only paid $8k for it with 72k miles. I can buy a lot of gas with the $20k+ saved over a new truck. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mountainrats]

My thoughts exactly. Bought a 1978 K20 with 61,000 miles on it for $3500.00 loaded up the FWC, Sold the late model pickup and can afford a lot of fuel with out a truck payment along with the added bonus of being able to fix just about anything that might fail in the middle of nowhere.

 

[HERR42]

another issue is that "in the old days" diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline.

after all, refining costs are less.

now days we have lost that advantage.

 

[ntsqd]

Re: Price for diesel fuel

When I had my diesel Rabbit pick-up in the late 90's I kept rough track of how consumer (rather than OTR) diesel pricing compared to gasoline. As an average it ran about what mid grade gasoline ran. When ever there was price spike the diesel prices would lag the gas prices, but then ultimately would top out slightly more than the premium peak before slowly settling back down to about mid-grade pricing.

Now that my DD is another Rabbit diesel I'm finding that my old observation is still pretty accurate. Things are a bit more unstable than they used to be, but the observation has been generally accurate for my part of the world.

 

[Barko1]

On my curent trip froM NM to Tahoe I have seen Diesel $.30 higher all the way to $ .10 less than reg.

 

[ScottBailey]

My next vehicle purchase is in 2013. I want a diesel Jeep, or maybe the Mahindra? If neither is available I will try to postpone my purchase....

 

[camelracer]

I see that Audi diesels just finished 1,2&3 at LeMans. Pretty neat for an oil burner.

 

[craig333]

A dodge ctd finished first in its class in the baja 1000.

 

[Kilroy]

Fuel costs are the biggest reason I don't make more trips.



I'm hoping to do a trip to Alaska next year. Anchorage is 5000 miles from home with out side trips. I'm figuring I will need $3000-$4000 just for diesel. Definitely have to save up for this, which will probably be a once in a lifetime trip. Need to do it sooner than later too, as getting to the age when how long is a lifetime is a significant question.

 

[imix]

Wanderers...if you have some cash and an older Toyota truck, why wait for Mahindra, why not convert?

http://www.dieseltoyz.com/

Plant Drive will put in a separate veggie oil tank and you are doing what a diesel was mean to...running on plant oil. Fuel up at Costco, turn some heads. I admit there is not a huge price advantage to this suggestion when a turn key conversion will set you back 15K, but if you can find free fuel (used veggie oil) or cheap (make your own Biodiesel-Utah Biodiesel supply has a fantastic video section on making it yourself for .75 cents a gallon) then you can get back some of your investment.

With an intercooler installed several toyota truck owners are reporting low 30's mpg. Obviously with a FWC onboard you'd get less.

Also, I can never quite shake that feeling at the gas pump that I might as well be pumping blood into my truck. The disaster in gulf doesn't make me feel any better about my dependence on fossil fuels either.