License and title on FWC in WA state

[GflGdog]

I purchased my Hawk last month in Bozeman, with a loan thru a local bank here in WA state. As Washington state is one of only 9 states that call a pickup bed camper an RV, they require title and license. Its been a struggle as the Dept of License gives no help. FWC in Bozeman says give them the MSO..the manufacturers statement of origin, to the dept and they should be able to make a title. Has anyone else had to go thru this? I am looking for any and all input that may be beneficial.
Thanks!

 

[57Pan]

I didn’t have a problem with licensing in Washington, because my Allterrain Camper had all ready been titled in Washington. I had a problem with the sale tax, because the department of licensing wanted me to pay taxes on an inflated sale price. I was able to resolve the sale tax problem by paying it at the department of revenue based on the price I had actually payed for my camper. Good luck in resolving your problem I can sympathize with your situation.

 

[Jon R]

I purchased my Hawk last month in Bozeman, with a loan thru a local bank here in WA state. As Washington state is one of only 9 states that call a pickup bed camper an RV, they require title and license. Its been a struggle as the Dept of License gives no help. FWC in Bozeman says give them the MSO..the manufacturers statement of origin, to the dept and they should be able to make a title. Has anyone else had to go thru this? I am looking for any and all input that may be beneficial.
Thanks!

I went through this with my new 2021 Grandby I purchased through Mule Outfitters in Issaquah. The license agencies don’t get truck campers often, so the staff often don’t know the code or what to do. I went to Auburn License Agency, which a busy, competent agency, and even then the counter person kept trying to tell me no license was required. I showed her the code language but she was unfamiliar with how to handle it. Luckily the manager came out and she knew the requirements and how to do the data entry in the computer system.

All you need is your manufacturer’s statement of origin and your bill of sale. Make a copy of the MSO before you go because they will keep the original. They will use the MSO serial number as the VIN. The counter person offered me a choice of a motorcycle size plate or full size, but the manager corrected her and said a full size plate is required.

I highly recommend you have a picture ready on your phone to show them what the camper actually is. Showing it mounted on the truck is fine. Different terminology is used around the country and I had to use a picture to clear up the confusion.

A title and license are required in WA if the camper has a floor. So a Grandby requires title and license, but a Project M does not.

I don’t actually display my plate because the truck plate is not obscured by the camper. You are supposed to display it, though. I keep it current and in the camper. It’s less than $30 a year as I recall.

 

[B-Rad]

Unless thing have changed the, Four Wheel Camper when in the down position is considered a topper and doesn't need a licence. I live in washington and had a hawk on the back of my truck for 6 years nonstop, never licenced it. Had it insured with allstate just added on to my truck policy. It is the height above the bed that is the cab that triggers registration.

 

[GflGdog]

I went through this with my new 2021 Grandby I purchased through Mule Outfitters in Issaquah. The license agencies don’t get truck campers often, so the staff often don’t know the code or what to do. I went to Auburn License Agency, which a busy, competent agency, and even then the counter person kept trying to tell me no license was required. I showed her the code language but she was unfamiliar with how to handle it. Luckily the manager came out and she knew the requirements and how to do the data entry in the computer system.

All you need is your manufacturer’s statement of origin and your bill of sale. Make a copy of the MSO before you go because they will keep the original. They will use the MSO serial number as the VIN. The counter person offered me a choice of a motorcycle size plate or full size, but the manager corrected her and said a full size plate is required.

I highly recommend you have a picture ready on your phone to show them what the camper actually is. Showing it mounted on the truck is fine. Different terminology is used around the country and I had to use a picture to clear up the confusion.

A title and license are required in WA if the camper has a floor. So a Grandby requires title and license, but a Project M does not.

I don’t actually display my plate because the truck plate is not obscured by the camper. You are supposed to display it, though. I keep it current and in the camper. It’s less than $30 a year as I recall.

Great info, thank you!

 

[GflGdog]

Unless thing have changed the, Four Wheel Camper when in the down position is considered a topper and doesn't need a licence. I live in washington and had a hawk on the back of my truck for 6 years nonstop, never licenced it. Had it insured with allstate just added on to my truck policy. It is the height above the bed that is the cab that triggers registration.

I thought that was the case as well, but found out otherwise. Check this out.

2022 Revised Code of Washington
Title 46 - Motor Vehicles
Chapter 46.16A - Registration.
46.16A.405 - Campers, mopeds, and wheelchair conveyances.

 

[Jon R]

The WA law defines a camper based on the overall length being five or more feet and the height from floor to ceiling when fully extended being five or more feet. (Project M has no floor, so it’s not a camper.). WA law requires campers to be titled and registered. The citations and links are below. The effective date of these laws was 1971.

WA Dept of Licensing web page stating this:
https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/campers.html

Revised Code of Washington RCW 46.04.085 defines a camper:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.085

RCW 46.12.690 states a camper is subject to vehicle title and registration requirements:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.12.690

The license agencies and insurance agents don’t necessarily know the law and often need to be educated.

Allstate may be charging you premiums, but if you have a major claim on your camper and an investigation is done, they may use the fact that you were untitled and unregistered and operating in violation of the law as the basis to deny the claim.

MetLife would not insure my camper until it was titled and registered per state law.

 

[TGK]

While I see that this thread focuses on campers in Washington State, I live in Oregon and owned 2 FWC's over a 20 year period. The first was a FWC Grandby with bed, sink, cooktop and heater. I registered it with the state and mounted the plate on the rear. The 2nd one was a Grandby Shell, which I had for 9 years. I never registered it with the state. I decided that after reading the the Oregon DMV definition of a camper. On the Oregon DMV website it specifies that a camper "has a floor, is mounted on a motor vehicle, but not permanently attached, and is designed to provide facilities of for human habitation defined as "permanent sleeping and cooking facilities". By that definition, there was no arguing that my first fully outfitted FWC was indeed a "camper". However, my shell only had a bed and a few built in cabinets. Given that, I never registered it and never encountered an issue.

I did do some basic modifications to the shell by installing a shelf between cabinets on the drivers side to hold a 2 burner cooktop camp stove that was "temporarily" fixed in place by straps when underway. I had a propane hose running outside to connect to a propane tank when needed. Did not have running water, as I used 5 gallon jugs with a spigot and a tub as a sink. Also had a Lagun table for internal use and compact folding "bistro chairs" for seating. It worked well for my wife and I for 9 years and provided much more open space inside the camper for an 80lb dog and two people moving around as well as hauling stuff inside when needed. Not a solution for everyone though.

It may be useful to see how Washington defines a camper. While it sounds like the owner of this thread has a full feature Hawk, there's likely no getting around registering his unit. However, for anyone mounting an ATC or FWC shell on their truck that is not fully built out, there may be some wiggle room. Having said that, I was never stopped and challenged by a LEO claiming my shell had to be registered. If I had been, I may have had to present a persuasive argument that it wasn't a "camper" by Oregon DMV standards. I kept a printout of the DMV regulations in the trucks cab just in case.

 

[Jon R]

While I see that this thread focuses on campers in Washington State, I live in Oregon and owned 2 FWC's over a 20 year period. The first was a FWC Grandby with bed, sink, cooktop and heater. I registered it with the state and mounted the plate on the rear. The 2nd one was a Grandby Shell, which I had for 9 years. I never registered it with the state. I decided that after reading the the Oregon DMV definition of a camper. On the Oregon DMV website it specifies that a camper "has a floor, is mounted on a motor vehicle, but not permanently attached, and is designed to provide facilities of for human habitation defined as "permanent sleeping and cooking facilities". By that definition, there was no arguing that my first fully outfitted FWC was indeed a "camper". However, my shell only had a bed and a few built in cabinets. Given that, I never registered it and never encountered an issue.

I did do some basic modifications to the shell by installing a shelf between cabinets on the drivers side to hold a 2 burner cooktop camp stove that was "temporarily" fixed in place by straps when underway. I had a propane hose running outside to connect to a propane tank when needed. Did not have running water, as I used 5 gallon jugs with a spigot and a tub as a sink. Also had a Lagun table for internal use and compact folding "bistro chairs" for seating. It worked well for my wife and I for 9 years and provided much more open space inside the camper for an 80lb dog and two people moving around as well as hauling stuff inside when needed. Not a solution for everyone though.

It may be useful to see how Washington defines a camper. While it sounds like the owner of this thread has a full feature Hawk, there's likely no getting around registering his unit. However, for anyone mounting an ATC or FWC shell on their truck that is not fully built out, there may be some wiggle room. Having said that, I was never stopped and challenged by a LEO claiming my shell had to be registered. If I had been, I may have had to present a persuasive argument that it wasn't a "camper" by Oregon DMV standards. I kept a printout of the DMV regulations in the trucks cab just in case.

I provided a link to the WA code that is the WA definition of a camper in my post above. Here is the wording:

RCW 46.04.085. Camper

"Camper" means a structure designed to be mounted upon a motor vehicle which provides facilities for human habitation or for temporary outdoor or recreational lodging and which is five feet or more in overall length and five feet or more in height from its floor to its ceiling when fully extended, but shall not include motor homes as defined in RCW 46.04.305.

Oregon’s definition may be different.

 

[TGK]

OK, I see they don't get as specific about defining "facilities" for human habitation in the Washington regulations. Link to Oregon regs where they differentiate between campers, motorhomes and trailers.

https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Forms/DMV/464.pdf

It's crazy trying to keep track of variations in red tape in the various states.

 

[Jon R]

If you think about it, some rooftop tents arguably meet the WA definition of camper.

 

[GflGdog]

Well, made my third trip to Dept of Licensing, with my Bill of Sale and MSO, and it went very well and very quickly this time. Task completed, lesson learned.

 

[Jon R]

Well, made my third trip to Dept of Licensing, with my Bill of Sale and MSO, and it went very well and very quickly this time. Task completed, lesson learned.

Awesome.

Now trade emails (not verbal discussions) with your insurance seller about the insurance coverage you want for your camper. That way you have a record, and if the insurer later decides to refuse coverage after an event because supposedly the wrong coverage was assigned, you can make a well-supported claim against the agent’s errors and omissions insurance policy. The people who accept a statement that “it’s already covered under your basic truck policy,” may get a surprise when they try to make a 30k claim of collision damage after an accident. “We meant for liability” may be the insurance company’s position. Make sure you have explicitly stated collision and comprehensive damage coverage in your policy if you want such coverage.