Lithium Battery advise

[ottorogers]

I found this Lithium on Amazon, for about the same price as 2 golf cart 6V AGM batteries, says it does not need a BMS, I would only need one of these, as they claim you can discharge down to 100%, I would not do that of course if I could help it, maybe 80% discharge. It has about the same AH usage as 2 6v golf cart batteries, and about the same cost as 2 AGM golf cart batteries, seems like a no brainer, the only thing I do not know is if the charge controller that comes with the Grandby is capable of properly charging this lithium battery. I will call FWC Monday and ask what charge controller the Grandby coomes with and if it can safely charge lithium batteries.

 

[Vic Harder]

My factory orignal AGMs are now into their 5th year so chances are this change is within a year or so but so far, so good.

Paul

Hey Paul, how many "Cycles" on your batteries according to the charge controller?

 

[BillTheHiker]

I found the following article very enlightening:
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/

 

[ottorogers]

https://www.amazon.com/lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Electric-Batteries/dp/B078JB836N/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WSK7F48ZY6Q8CS7PJZ0S

No BMS, and $105 for shipping, this one is OUT

 

[Vic Harder]

I found the following article very enlightening:
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/

That's a great article. Thanks for sharing

 

[Vic Harder]

https://www.amazon.com/lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Electric-Batteries/dp/B078JB836N/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WSK7F48ZY6Q8CS7PJZ0S

This is just the raw cells, no BMS, right?

 

[klahanie]

https://www.amazon.com/lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Electric-Batteries/dp/B078JB836N/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WSK7F48ZY6Q8CS7PJZ0S

Still have your big boy pants on after ordering that big ol' Granby ? 'cause I think you might be your own warranty on these.

He has good reviews and review text is interesting. I'd want the BMS. If you're the same, I'd be interested in the vendors response and price.

Looks like you are getting closer

ON EDIT I know from E-bike batteries lots of folks are buying direct from asia at a significant savings. Works for many.

 

[PaulT]

My factory orignal AGMs are now into their 5th year so chances are this change is within a year or so but so far, so good.

Paul

Hey Paul, how many "Cycles" on your batteries according to the charge controller?

No clue.
My system is presently disassembled. I am cleaning up wiring, installing the IQ4-Lifepo, the ML-ACR, 4 gauge wire to alternator, circuit breakers,etc along with rerouting wires. Work that I have been avoiding for most of the year. Plus, I finally decided on how to mount a replacement backup camera that, I hope, will work with the lines in the truck's rearview mirror display.
Determined that no more camping opportunities were available for the near future and it isn't raining at present in Oregon and I want to get these projects finished.

Paul

 

[rando]

https://www.amazon.com/lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Electric-Batteries/dp/B078JB836N/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WSK7F48ZY6Q8CS7PJZ0S

Those are just four 3.2V cells - and not a type or brand I have seen before. You would need to add your own packaging, wiring and BMS to those - which would be a bit of an undertaking. If you wanted to go that route, you would probably be better off with a better known brand and form factor like these:
https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/100Ah-CALB-UL-Certified-Batteries

Which would also appear to be a little cheaper.

 

[craig333]

I found the following article very enlightening:
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/

Very interesting. A good reminder of the state of lithium batteries.


500 ah and they're considering 1000ah? And here we're thinking 200 is overkill

 

[ottorogers]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FDHRP45/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvpv2_2_a_it?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=6375e697-f226-4dbd-a63a-5ec697811ee1&pd_rd_wg=iCKcX&pf_rd_r=A90XFXZV4A55R3J76GM3&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-bottom-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B075RST4R2&pd_rd_w=UULRS&pf_rd_i=LiFePO4%2BBattery&pd_rd_r=59ba6131-5af0-48e0-9c22-ec2d3a2889e0&ie=UTF8&qid=1539571686&sr=2&th=1

No idea if this comes with BMS or not, but it looks like a good deal, free shipping too, only 1 review (makes me a bit nervous)

 

[ottorogers]

This is just the raw cells, no BMS, right?

right, and ridiculous shipping charge

 

[billharr]

I found the following article very enlightening:
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/

Good read.

“In theory there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice there is.”

Below really made me think if I want Lithium as 100 degree days happen a lot in the central valley:

"But while brainstorming potential causes for our diminished capacity recently, Elite let me know that in their experience heat has a huge impact – even within that operating range.
They have observed that a 10C (18F) temperature increase over a baseline room temperature of ~23C (74F) results in the number of lifetime cycles being cut in half.
This means at 33C (91F) usable battery life will be cut in half, and presumably to a quarter at 43C (109F). This is VERY substantial. "

 

[ottorogers]

Good read.

“In theory there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice there is.”

Below really made me think if I want Lithium as 100 degree days happen a lot in the central valley:

"But while brainstorming potential causes for our diminished capacity recently, Elite let me know that in their experience heat has a huge impact – even within that operating range.
They have observed that a 10C (18F) temperature increase over a baseline room temperature of ~23C (74F) results in the number of lifetime cycles being cut in half.
This means at 33C (91F) usable battery life will be cut in half, and presumably to a quarter at 43C (109F). This is VERY substantial. "

Everytime I dig a little deeper lithium seems to be way too complicated, to many issues and problems, I go back to AGM

 

[BillTheHiker]

Everytime I dig a little deeper lithium seems to be way too complicated, to many issues and problems, I go back to AGM

My thinking exactly. My impression is that even the battery manufacturers do not fully understand them. And I am not convinced they are the battery of the future for campers. They may be for electric cars, but those have a climate controlled environment for the battery. We are stuck with a tiny battery box with minimal ventilation.

 

[Wallowa]

"My thinking exactly. My impression is that even the battery manufacturers do not fully understand them. And I am not convinced they are the battery of the future for campers. They may be for electric cars, but those have a climate controlled environment for the battery. We are stuck with a tiny battery box with minimal ventilation."

==========================================


A non-problem solution that could cost $15 per pound for 100 lb less weight...temp [high or low], fire and a floating charge dislike issues along with cost make quality AGMs look more and more like the right battery for a FWC...hey, most FWCs are doing great with the AGMs...and none have the power needs of a motor home bus or small city...

Of course I could be wrong.....

Phil

 

[smlobx]

Those are just four 3.2V cells - and not a type or brand I have seen before. You would need to add your own packaging, wiring and BMS to those - which would be a bit of an undertaking. If you wanted to go that route, you would probably be better off with a better known brand and form factor like these:
https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/100Ah-CALB-UL-Certified-Batteries

Which would also appear to be a little cheaper.

I agree that would be more than I want to tackle at this point.
I'm leaning towards the Battle Born option..
https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Volt-Deep-Cycle-Battery/dp/B06XX197GJ/ref=pd_sbs_86_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XX197GJ&pd_rd_r=63edbb50-d09c-11e8-8a4a-61489532c619&pd_rd_w=BgUqQ&pd_rd_wg=3ccKh&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=7d5d9c3c-5e01-44ac-97fd-261afd40b865&pf_rd_r=GA52SF79ACEXZ4S6WZBD&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=GA52SF79ACEXZ4S6WZBD#customerReviews

 

[Stokeme]

I will weigh in w/my experience so far with Lithium. I have a 2018 Grandby Shell on a 2018 LB HD Ford F-150. Heater, stove, couch.
I purchased a 100Ah & a 50Ah Lifepo4 with internal BMS & Bluetooth. My 50Ah will double with my canoe to power electric trolling motor. Weight was a concern with me. Handling & storage. Wiring as well. I disconnected the FWC power lead from my truck battery, so my 12V System is isolated unto itself. My 12V draw is Led lights, furnace fan, Dometic CFX 50 W. I will be adding a 1gpm Shurflo on demand water pump for a Ronco 7 gal tank.
I have two120W Solar blvd flex panels mounted on a custom build aluminum tube frame mounted N to S in between my two vents. There is room for a third panel. The frame is mounted to my Yakima tracks. Everything is run in parallel. Roof setup weighs 15 lbs, less than 20.
My initial 3 trips, with my coldest last week, Lundy to Monitor, has not used more than 10% to 12% of the System. The Bluetooth is really cool with my phone. It gives me overall usage for both batteries & can look at the individual cells as well. No external battery monitor needed. I have a Victron Smart Solar 100/30 mppt. My controller is mounted inside my battery box. It gives me daily monitoring plus 30 day history, again, Bluetooth is really cool with this too. My usage seems to be replenished in just a few hours usually from late morning to early afternoon.
A Renogy sae roof coupler to two mc4 y branch connectors runs my roof in parallel. I live in the SF Bay Area, so long term cold will not be a detriment. But it can get warm, it was hotter than normal this summer. I need a shade canopy. I did all wiring myself, idiot proof.
I was given great help in my learning process from Vic, Craig & Rando in particular. I was, & still am, not well versed in electronics. I have learned a lot. I wanted to keep things very simple & off grid. I purposely did not go with the FWC build in order to be light. I did splurge on these 2 batteries but did get small initial discount & a better discount on the 50. I am really happy so far. I am a guinea pig with this setup.
Hope this helps any considerations.

 

[billharr]

Stokeme, I like your set up. Keep us posted on how it works. I have a 150w and 100w panels on the roof feeding a Victron 100/20 MPPT controller. Curious why you wired parallel from the panels and not series to take advantage of the MPPT taking a higher voltage. I rewired my set up to series to use the higher voltage. I am over 5 years on my two AGMs and know I will not get a lot more out of them. But they have always been on solar so have not gone very low.

 

[rando]

What is often overlooked in these discussions is that lead acid batteries have just as many if not more foibles and limitations than lithium batteries, we (as in the community) have just accepted these foibles and live with them. The foibles of lithium (minimize charging below 0C, balance cells, avoid float charging) are just new to us, and are not addressed by infrastructure that is designed for lead acid. Once manufacturers start building their systems around lithium batteries, with lithium specific chargers, controllers, housings etc, then it won't seem like a big deal.