LOST IN NEVADA

[craig333]

I have to disagree about his being on the same scale as Stolpa. Stupid yeah. Should have had food water and another vehicle along. As for rolling, while it was most likely a case of driving too fast for the conditions we don't know that yet. A lot of unforseen things can result in a rollover. Mostly what makes him not a Stolpa is one, he obviously let someone know he'd gone, if not the exact location otherwise the search wouldn't have started as soon as it did. Two, he had a clue what do once the shtf. No panic there.

 

[Smokecreek1]

I have to disagree about his being on the same scale as Stolpa. Stupid yeah. Should have had food water and another vehicle along. As for rolling, while it was most likely a case of driving too fast for the conditions we don't know that yet. A lot of unforseen things can result in a rollover. Mostly what makes him not a Stolpa is one, he obviously let someone know he'd gone, if not the exact location otherwise the search wouldn't have started as soon as it did. Two, he had a clue what do once the shtf. No panic there.

I'll agree with with craig on this. There is a great deal of difference between going out to play for the day and messing up (something we all have done -that famous "I'll just walk over to that hill and see what's there mentality ) than "taking a short cut suggested from someone in a gas station across unknown country in the middle of the winter without any supplies". If there are degrees of "stupidness (is that a word)" this guy was not as stupid as the "Stupids." Our tv friends are all ready suggesting a new tv movie-wonderful. Something positive also seems to be coming from this, lot's of local survival experts are on the tv talking about outdoor survival and what to do and not to do when wandering around the back country, maybe what they are saying will save someones' life one day!

Smoke

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Again from NBC:

Nevada wing Civil Air Patrol Col. Timothy F. Hahn said that the family was found “four miles from civilization.”

Maybe if the driver had walked those four miles he could have saved the other four two nights out. Of course, there is a high probability that this idiot had no clue where he was--better to stay in the car and heat rocks.

I'm sorry you guys, I don't take a load of kids on an off-road joyride in the middle of a Nevada winter. Stolpa was an ignorant city kid with no clue. This Lovelock guy, a hunter they say, should have known better.

 

[Foy]

Nothing about the reality that all of us have done really, really stupid things precludes a determination that what this guy did was really, really stupid. Now the news reports are saying he rolled the Jeep while doing "wheelies and donuts". I have yet to see any report stating he told anybody specifically where he was going or when he planned to return. That implies his neighbors or the parents of the niece + nephew generally knew he was headed out and that he had not returned by that night. Not exactly filing a flight plan, it would appear.

This young man put 4 small children in the back seat of a Jeep designed and certified to seat 3, took them out on a bitter cold day, may not have really told anybody exactly where he intended to go, then proceeded to horse around with the kids on board, rolling the Jeep. In my book, at least, that's every bit as stupid as the actions of young Mr. Stolpa. Stupid in a different way, granted, but incredibly stupid nonetheless. If he's not charged with endangering the children, he should consider himself lucky.

Again, I am most thankful that everybody is OK, and I totally admire his resourcefulness in how he managed to save all of their lives while out in the bitter cold for 2 nights. I'm just not willing to give him a "pass" on the manner by which he put himself and the children at risk to begin with.

Foy

 

[ski3pin]

My emotions get thrown back and forth with discussions on incidents like this. We would, at times with tongue in cheek of course, while out searching for someone in absolutely horrendous conditions (we were well prepared for) discuss whether we were negating the laws of natural selection – save the stupid ones so they can breed and have stupid children. The “conscience” in our group, a fellow we could depend on for a well articulated rebuttal to the swelling trend of the conversation, would ask the question, “Should stupid be a mandatory death sentence?”

I guess I’m getting older when my thoughts get pulled to the old days. In the old days these folks would be pulled out of the ditch and the community would send them on their way with the admonition to smarten up, learn from your mistakes, and know you will be watched. That would be in end of it. Times have changed, over simplifying - do something stupid, get national attention, and get a TV movie made about you.

I have witnessed the joy and swell of emotion when a loved one is delivered safely home. I have quietly helped pick up the pieces when things didn’t turn out so well. Both have been awful hard work. My heart has always gone out to the families and friends struggling with the thought, “Will we ever see them again?”

Most of these are memories always near the top. Makes me want to disappear with the Lady and go adventuring and leave all this behind.

 

[Smokecreek1]

I agree with your post, Ski, but I keep thinking of a program I saw a while back. It profiled two people -one a good Darwin type, and the other a Mr. Survival type. One did everything wrong, took a guess and walked in the right direction and lived. In the other case-in Colorado I think-, a person that sort of sounds like allot of people who use this site (they think they know what they are doing), made one bad decision-he took a short cut, and got trapped by a rock fall----and died of thirst within a few feet of water. He was not found in time because they searched for him on the route he said he was going to take. So how do you explain these things? Maybe that's why we try to keep people from doing the wrong thing and give allot of advise (maybe good, Maybe bad) , on using our FWC and trying to survive out there. Things happen, we do what we can but the world keeps going on. Enough of this, maybe there is that place out there to hide.

Smoke

 

[ski3pin]

Smoke, was this the preacher on a solo backpack trip into the Wind Rivers? He was trapped by rockfall on the edge of a high lake and could not move? He wrote a haunting a journal of his final days. His dog was found and eventually his body.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Yep, that's the one! I've thought about it allot, especially now that I'm out and about by myself so much. It is the reason I bought my Spot 2 after getting the idea from that thread we had a few years ago! We do what we can!

Smoke

 

[Foy]

Smoke, was this the preacher on a solo backpack trip into the Wind Rivers? He was trapped by rockfall on the edge of a high lake and could not move? He wrote a haunting a journal of his final days. His dog was found and eventually his body.

I also read that preacher's journal. It was within an article about his death. Unreal.

 

[highz]

I appreciate your post, Smoke. Even the most skilled outdoorsman can have s**t happen. A PLB or SPOT might save you from a bad situation - even if you aren't alone.

Of course, this doesn't excuse stunting with a jeep when you are risking others' lives, or other thoughtless activity. Even so, if they had a way to send a distress signal, they would probably have been rescued sooner, with the SAR crews spending less time and effort looking for them. But, I suppose the kind of people that would take risks with kids aboard would be less likely to be safety conscious and have a PLB. I hope they learn from the experience, and I am glad they are safe.

Does anyone have a link to that preacher's journal?

 

[craig333]

I do many of those things people say you shouldn't . Difference is its only my life in jeopardy, not others, especially children who can't judge how responsible the adults are. One of the reasons I carry the spot (rant on that upcoming) is I have a tendency to change my flight path on the fly. Where I said I'd be is not always where I wind up. I'm still reading the book loosely based on Kit Carson. One thing I can take from that is I'm sure he'd have a different take on this event.

 

[clikrf8]

We were in that general area last October in the Black Rock Desert. We wanted to explore further along the Jungo Road but thought better as this was during the shutdown and we had no BLM folks to ask about the roads as we were by ourselves. Beautiful area, serenely surreal in a stark way. We want to return in May or June. Anyone want to join us? I am working on a loose itinerary for both our March trip to Death Valley and May/June trip to AZ/UT and will be asking more specific questions as I finess our destinations and routes.

Glad they are okay, especially the children. When I was a kid and we were in the Mt Baker National Forest getting a Christmas tree in our Army Jeep, we got stuck in a mud hole and it took hours to get loose to make our way home on USFS roads in the dark. No GPS, cell phones, etc. in those days and no one knew where we were.

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Speaking of having a high score on the Stolpa Scale, what about the cut-off-hisown-arm guy in Horseshoe Cyn, UT, a few years back? And he made even more money than the Stolpas with his book and movie.

Also, one should also keep in mind that a PLB or a Spot would likely not have worked down in that sandstone crack. Those devises have some of the same shortcomings as GPSs--they've got to see the satellites to work. Don't get me wrong, I think these machines are great for those of us who do solo trips into the wilderness, they just have some limitations.

My buddy, Guillermo, who spends a lot of time hiking and skiing out there on his own, bought a PLB a few years ago and programmed it to call the Global Rescue Hotline of the American Alpine Club. The AAC will contact the local authorities and they will start looking for him asap.

 

[craig333]

All we can do is take steps to minimize our risk. We can't eliminate it. For all I know a chunk of ice from an airplane is on its way to crash into me as we speak. I'd sure hate to wind up like Howard Hughes.

 

[highz]

I agree about the limitations of a PLB or SPOT. They aren't infallible, and aren't a replacement for common sense. They are another piece of safety gear. SPOT claims to have enables 2500 rescues so far, and there's an interesting map on their rescue PR page at http://www.findmespot.com/en/spotemergency/

It's just that I read these rescue stories in the news and I think to myself "a PLB could have helped here".

Here are a couple more survival stories that made me laugh. Edit: Well, not the dog story, but the other one made me laugh.
http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from-the-field/This-Week-in-Extreme-Survival.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost

 

[Smokecreek1]

Guys I like my spot and I keep up on my annual fee (get the same emergency back up as Stew was talking about -i think). So nothing is perfect, but it makes me feel a little less alone out there. I always send an "i'm ok" message every time i stop for the night (no cell phone coverage as usual) to a couple of friends, and a couple of months ago, I came back early and forgot to send a message when I got home, my best buddy as per my instructions waited a day of not hearing from me and called my house to see how I was-responsibility is a two way deal for sure-made me feel sort of protected.. Hey, our favorite lost jeep people went big time with their story, jumped from local tv to the networks-big time-with their story. Another reason why we love the 24 news cycle.

Smoke

 

[Riverrunner]

Not to get too off topic but a PLB can be more helpful than a spot at least it was a few years ago when I did my research. I have a PLB because of some of the places and activities I do...or use to do. You have to register them and keep it up to date. You open the antenna and push the button and it doesn't take long for someone to know where you are and that you need help. Getting to you is a different issue.

I noticed that NBC flew them and some others in order to get the exclusive interview on a morning show. I always find it interesting how doing something a little questionable can get you your 15min of fame. I would hide and never tell anyone.... I was a dumb@$$.

 

[Foy]

I noticed that NBC flew them and some others in order to get the exclusive interview on a morning show. I always find it interesting how doing something a little questionable can get you your 15min of fame. I would hide and never tell anyone.... I was a dumb@$$.

Yeah, I'd be pretty darned embarrassed to (further) show my face.

Through resourcefulness and determination, they managed to overcome the worst outcome arising from his foolishness. Maybe the Nevada prosecutors are inclined to give him a "pass" and not charge him with child endangerment, and if that's the local mind-set, fine with me. I don't imagine he'd escape prosecution from a DA back this way. Best wishes to all of them.

Foy

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

IMO me thinks these "exclusive" interviews are mostly about ratings.
No don't think I would want to face my dumbness on national TV either.
Frank

 

[craig333]

x2 Theres even a slight possibility you guys don't know all my dumb moves. Some things you just shake your head at and wonder how you got this old. I don't even watch reality tv much less wanna show my face to whole world.