Major Hawk Remodel

Mark:

that is such a neat seat mod. but a few more questions...


what is the seat angle when you have it in lounge position and then in just regular sit position?


How are the legs for front to back motion when on the bed? Does it rock any? I would think bracing between each leg would be needed....

It never self collapses when sleeping or sitting on the raised bed?

how do you deal with the loss of storage under the old bed? that probably is my biggest concern. i store a Lot of stuff under there!

Also, if you could comment on sitting and sleeping positions when you have the top down, say at a rest stop or a really really cold snowy day....


Thanks, mark. Can't wait to do something like this myself.

And, if you ever get a small video ala you tube, it would help explain the mechanism a lot for those of us mechanically challenged.

thanks again

Davie
 
[W]hat is the seat angle when you have it in lounge position and then in just regular sit position?
I've never checked, Dave. Right now the truck is full of recyclables, or I would've measured it for you.

How are the legs for front to back motion when on the bed? Does it rock any? I would think bracing between each leg would be needed....
I fastened the bottom of each bulkhead to the floor near the corners of each bulkhead and the top outboard of each bulkhead to the camper with angle brackets. Next, I screwed the original fir plywood to each stringer in three places. So, the plywood braces each 'leg' to the other two, and the angle brackets brace the assembly to the camper.

It never self collapses when sleeping or sitting on the raised bed?
No, it is designed so that you have to lift the front edge of the cushion up to make the bed and also lift the front up to make the couch. I used the same basic technique as in the original prototype; I only changed the pivot points and the lengths of the struts to give some setback to the new design (and to move the whole thing outboard an inch or so). So, the thing has two stable modes...

How do you deal with the loss of storage under the old bed? That probably is my biggest concern. I store a lot of stuff under there!
Can you fit a Coleman cooler under your seat? I am pretty sure that there is more volume available now than in the original cushion-on-box arrangement. Plus, I can access the space with stuff stacked on the couch.

Also, if you could comment on sitting and sleeping positions when you have the top down, say at a rest stop or a really really cold snowy day....
I'll get some take-offs for you on this after I go to the recyclable bin. The bed now rests atop the second 'step' next to the window. You can mock that up for yourself to see, but I *believe* there is still more head room with the top down than in the upper buck (with the top up ;)).

In terms of seating with the top down, you definitely lose some space, but I can still sit there. It's easier and more comfortable to recline with the setback in the seat cushion, so sitting is always more comfortable than on a flat seat IMO.

Think of an Adirondack chair and you get the idea of the angles.
 
Nice...

Mark,

You sure have done some very skillful woodworking here. I really like your full extension cabinet drawers. Thanks for sharing.
 
Hoopla makes me hinkey

Dear Fellows--

Thank you one and all for the kind sentiments. I don't know how to handle public accolades very well-- they make me feel like a deer in headlights-- but thank you just the same.

Mark
 
Mark,

Thanks for the replies....I am not sure still have you have the legs attached, but I guess more photos might help.....Just want to know if they are stable and sounds like they are.

Will take more time to digest it and see If i can do it. take some talent and time!

dave
 
I am [still] not sure [how] you have the legs attached...
I hope a drawing will be clearer than a photo for this, Dave.

connectors.JPG


The blue things inside the clouds represent angle brackets screwed to the bulkhead and also to the camper.

The design calls for a slope of 5 degrees on the seat cushion.

If you trace the arc swept by the inboard strut, you will see the vertical apex, or high point, of the arc is between the couch and bed position. Thus, the inboard strut will tend to fall either toward the couch position or toward the bed position from that apex. Gravity will not let the strut climb out of one position and go to the other.

The outboard strut is more complicated to explain.

In the couch position, the outboard strut does not bear a load. Instead the 'sleeper' rests on the short step of the camper base.

In the bed position the outboard strut is nearly vertical and acts like a bent leg. When in the vertical position the outboard strut is braced by the inboard strut in compression with the (inboard) vertical leg of the bulkhead, to which the inboard strut is attached.

I, too, was unsure whether this was going to work. That is why I built and tested a much simpler prototype for a year before wasting time on this prettier one. Based on those favorable results, I added the seat angle, bent the outboard strut and tried to make it less ugly.
 
Great Engineering

Mark,

The diagram is great. Thank you for providing it! Haven't even used it yet, and youv'e already got me thinking about changing my dinette!

Would you care to add a few dimensions? Please?!

SB
 
Mark,

The diagram is great. Thank you for providing it! Haven't even used it yet, and youv'e already got me thinking about changing my dinette!

Would you care to add a few dimensions? Please?!

SB

Thank you for the kind words, Scott.

I am pondering whether to concatenate the current thread with a specific couch thread, start a new thread on design and construction of seating with 'movement' or simply have private conversations with the few people who are interested in the discussion.

Slavishly adhering to my dimensions is probably not as good and idea as understanding how to generate dimensions of your own.
 
Thank you for the kind words, Scott.
I am pondering whether to concatenate the current thread with a specific couch thread, start a new thread on design and construction of seating with 'movement' or simply have private conversations with the few people who are interested in the discussion.

I vote one of the first two. The later would toss out the lurkers (such as me :D ) and others down the road who will be looking for ideas, I can't tell you home many old threads I've poured through looking at ideas and such. All kinds of great stuff!

As someone mentioned if you were able to do a quick video of things I think that would be great. I generally understand your bench seat mechanism but to be honest I still can't fully visualize the rear seat (I think alot of the issue is I don't have one of these rigs yet to see some of the behind the scenes areas and am not familiar with some original parts that get reused in different applications).
 
Further....

Thank you for the kind words, Scott.

As far as kind words go: I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em! Great idea, great engineering, great documentation for future builders.

I am pondering whether to concatenate the current thread with a specific couch thread, start a new thread on design and construction of seating with 'movement' or simply have private conversations with the few people who are interested in the discussion.

Forget about it. Keeping all the data in one place is fine by me and an easy reference. And, as pods8 points out, private conversations won't help lurkers, future users, or Googlers!

Slavishly adhering to my dimensions is probably not as good and idea as understanding how to generate dimensions of your own.

Not everyone has the capacity/time/experience/etc to generate their own dimensions; for these people, dimensions might allow them to build something--even if only "good enough"--they otherwise couldn't. Those that do will use your numbers ONLY as a starting point. Having someplace, anyplace to start is often enough to make something happen. Further, my interest is academic. For me, the dinette is the way to go, but I might be interested in adapting a few of your ideas.



So, back to your Plastimo water tank.

Somehow I managed to skip this part when I first read your post. Let me just say: WOW! What a great mod! I had no idea something like this existed, let alone would work!

You have the 13 gallon tank: did you consider the 26 or 39? Did you push the camper back a bit to add space? If so, how much? Any other gotchas?

I'm thinking replacing the 2" spacer (between bed and camper) w/ a 4" spacer and a larger bladder tank is pure genius! Wow! Your costing me money, Mark!

Worth pondering: I wonder if I could move my furnace to where the current water tank is and install a bigger reefer!
 
More and more I come to realize what a slippery slope it is to start modifying these campers...

I'm thinking about how nice it would be to have the dinette setup in ours... I think the front set for the dinette would make a great pseudo crib area too! Hmm...
 
So, back to your Plastimo water tank.

You have the 13 gallon tank: did you consider the 26 or 39? Did you push the camper back a bit to add space? If so, how much? Any other gotchas?

Actually, Scott, I got the 100L || 26 gallon tank. I pushed the camper back ~2-1/2 inches from the front bed rail which, along with the 1-1/2 inch difference between the bed rail and the front of the bed gave me about half a pillow tank of water storage.

Here's the tank, deployed during Hurricane Ike as our potable water supply--

26gal.JPG


As you can see from the photo, it's about two feet wide and about seven inches thick at its thickest point. We could definitely increase our storage capacity by sliding the camper aft, but I didn't want to lose the step the bumper provides and I didn't think I needed more water storage than we previously had.

Again, the big problem (for me) is that I haven't figured out a good way to gauge it.

Meanwhile, I have an idea for those of you who want to see couch dimensions--

How about if you download Google Sketchup and I'll send you my drawing files? (It's free! It's free!)
 
Mark,

That diagram does make it! now I see the light.....I'll have to get in the back of the camper and make some measurements. Would be nice to get my engel under there with a nice slide out....would be slick.

Since looking at the diagram and trying to visualize it, I must say I have FWC cushions on the brain. Keep trying to visualize the flip from one position to the other and what that does for storage considerations in the camper.

Nice mental gymnastics for now.....I'll ruminate for the winter and maybe try something in spring with some wood and tools. This could be a real winner for the FWC guys.......Listening, Stan?

Dave in Seattle
 
Picture?

Mark,

Do you happen to have a picture of your truck & camper that shows the larger gap for the bladder install?

Thanks!
 
Do you happen to have a picture of your truck & camper that shows the larger gap for the bladder install?


Sorry for the delay, Scott, I didn't want to take any more pictures in my driveway...


You can't really tell there's more of a gap unless you get real close--


picture.php
 
I got an PM from a member asking for dimensioned shop drawings. I have resisted doing this, because I think the dimensions will depend upon the particular year and model camper. But this is like the third or fourth request, so I decided to go ahead and post some cartoons...

Bulkhead (qty:3)

gallery_255_81_11672.jpg


Stringer (qty:3)

gallery_255_81_311.jpg


Rear Strut (qty:6)

gallery_255_81_16919.jpg


NOTES:

1. The front struts are 2 x 7-11/16, with holes centered on a 5-11/16 spacing.

2. The dimensions called out as (REF) on the bulkhead should not be drilled until after one front and one rear strut are assembled with the stringer and the front strut is assembled to the bulkhead. Using the rear strut as a "compass" swing an arc onto the bulkhead with the stringer in the bed position and the couch position. Center punch the intersection of these two arcs and drill.

3. Really- All the dimensions should be taken as "REF" only until you have confirmed by measurement that the design is scaled to your camper.
 
Inigalls:

makes me wish we did meet up last year. Now you gone done put those measurements up. Yet, less reason for me to put off such a project. Inertia is really bad. Just want to find some sun. Thanks, though. one day this will come in handy.

dave/seattle
 
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