Mounting Wave 3 in Hawk

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Trailbob, seeing the performance from a real life perspective is very helpful! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Wallowa]

TrailBob,

Referring to the moisture inside the camper; do you have one or two vents and how many fans? May not be feasible to "vent" warm air out even to reduce moisture...

Thanks,

Phil

Ps...Glad to see that someone mentioned the products of propane combustion....doubt if the Wave only produces water and heat.

 

[Trailbob]

Referring to the moisture inside the camper; do you have one or two vents and how many fans? May not be feasible to "vent" warm air out even to reduce moisture...

I only have one vent, which has a Fantastic Fan. I didn't turn the fan on, but did have the vent opened a little. I also propped open the turn buckle door under the furnace 1/2", and opened both rear side windows slightly. The Wave heater, plus cooking and normal breathing, put out a lot of moisture-- especially since we left the Wave on all day. We live in a low humidity area (except during storms), but moisture always seems to be an issue with winter camping whether we are in a tent, trailer, or camper.

 

[buckland]

Trailbob What is the rate of consumption for the propane... i.e. how long would the 10 lb. tank last say with the day/night usage in your example. (hope the hunt was successful)

 

[Trailbob]

Hey Buckland, just filled the tank today and we used 1.4 gallons of propane. That was for two nights and one full day with the Wave running the entire time, plus the fridge, some furnace use, and cooking. I think each 10 lb tank holds about 2.5 gallons. We would probably have run out of the first tank after another day.

In the past when we hunted in much colder weather, we winterized the water system and only ran the furnace when we were in the camper. We slept in 0 degree bags, and didn't run the furnace at night. Back then we only had one battery, and did not have a Wave heater or a digital thermostat for the furnace (that goes down to 40). These were longer trips, but we only used the camper for sleeping since we had a group wall tent with a wood stove for cooking and socializing. Two 10 lb bottles would last the entire 10 +/- day trip under those circumstances.

 

[buckland]

Thanks for putting it in perspective. I can get an idea of usage. Thats pretty good when you think you could get nearly 5 days in cold weather if you had to. I actually prefer a colder temp in the night...sleep much better... just wear a wool hat! Keeping the clothes for the next day in the bottom of the sleeping bag makes it a lot easier to get up for coffee too!

 

[Gussie]

Glad you like the set up, Trail Bob.
We also appreciate quiet heat without any draw on the battery.

I installed the quick disconnect on the end of the rubber house where it attaches to the heater.

Hi Lighthawk, I'm wondering if you can help. I'm getting ready to install a Wave 3 in my ATC Bobcat, it'll be on legs atop the counter when I use. When I don't need it, I'll be storing it, so I want to disconnect easily.

You mentioned: "I installed the quick disconnect on the end of the rubber house where it attaches to the heater."

Was that a 3/8" quick connect? I ordered this one from Amazon, but I didn't notice it was 1/4". Wrong size...

Any help appreciated!

 

[Trailbob]

That was the kit I used, the fittings are interchangeable with low pressure Sturgis 250 quick connect fittings. I put the female fitting on the camper end, and the male fitting on the end of the heater hose. On my set up, the hose stays connected the the heater, but you could also set it up with the quick disconnect on the heater end, if that works better for your situation. You can get adapters to go from the 3/8 flare on the heater to the 1/4" quick disconnect fitting at hardware stores. I found that there are several quick connect fittings that look similar, but are not interchangeable. I could not find any Sturgis 250 fittings locally, but found several suppliers on e-bay, and other internet sites.

 

[Lighthawk]

A quick google search brings up the Camco 3/8" swivel I used to attach to the Wave 3
From this fitting I attached a quick disconnect.

 

[Gussie]

I have that same fitting attached to the heater, Lighthawk. What I am hoping to find is a 3/8" NPT quick connect with a shutoff on it, so I was wondering what you used for that.

Trailbob, I would need two 1/4'-3/8" adaptors for each side of the quick connect I have - seems like a PITA. Mr Heater makes a 3/8" quick disconnect without an inline shutoff, maybe I'll just settle for that. I'll probably just turn off the valve at the tank itself when not using the heater, since nothing else is propane powered in my Bobcat.

Thanks for the replies -

 

[MarkBC]

Not sure if it's relevant, but here's how I did it -- yes, a separate valve fitting. The quick-connect is the type that seals itself when disconnected...but I went for the belt-and-suspenders.

From this post on the same subject.

 

[Wallowa]

Got to say that you folks have come up with some very imaginative and ornate ways of adding catalytic heaters to FWCs. Good on ya for your ingenuity.

Not pushing a point, but very glad we have full solar, two batteries and the FWC space heating furnace. The current furnace model is quiet and has proven very efficient so far. I am a chicken-little when it comes to plumbing propane and definitely afraid of venting any combustion products into our living area. I have seen first-hand the affects of CO poisoning and it was scary; tough to not be hypoxic when the hemoglobin is overloaded with CO and there is no "space" for oxygen; add altitude to that mix and things get worst very quickly. Heck with our propane cook stove going I have both fantastic vent fans going and a window cracked open. To be certain my Hawk has its limits when it comes to low temp camping; but so far that only applies to the water systems and not the heat.

When we are unable to heat our living space sufficiently with the furnace; I will opt to go to down clothing, drain our water systems and revert back to a "tent camping" mode in our Hawk. Hey, if the powder is still there I ain't going home!


Phil

 

[Gussie]

Not sure if it's relevant, but here's how I did it -- yes, a separate valve fitting.

Completely relevant, thanks Mark BC. That's what I'm going to do!

 

[MarkBC]

Completely relevant, thanks Mark BC. That's what I'm going to do!

You're welcome. Plumbing low-pressure propane (as inside our campers) isn't very difficult -- and I'm not even a real handyman. It's only ½ psi, so it's not difficult to seal against leaks.
And of course you have an LP gas detector/alarm and a CO detector/alarm in good working order. ?
My CO detector has a digital readout of highest CO level reached since last reset, in addition to an alarm, so I know how far from hazardous it gets: a long way.

 

[Gussie]

You're welcome. Plumbing low-pressure propane (as inside our campers) isn't very difficult -- and I'm not even a real handyman. It's only ½ psi, so it's not difficult to seal against leaks.
And of course you have an LP gas detector/alarm and a CO detector/alarm in good working order. ?
My CO detector has a digital readout of highest CO level reached since last reset, in addition to an alarm, so I know how far from hazardous it gets: a long way.

Yes, the detectors will be the final pieces of the puzzle. That's a no-brainer!

 

[Wallowa]

Mark...where did you get the digital CO detector with a read out? Great to have. What level level is consider hazardous? I have no knowledge of the units or CO threshold level...I do know that once attached to a hemoglobin site the CO takes time to remove.

Let me know the model and I will also pick one up...thanks.

Phil

 

[MarkBC]

Mark...where did you get the digital CO detector with a read out? Great to have. What level level is consider hazardous? I have no knowledge of the units or CO threshold level...I do know that once attached to a hemoglobin site the CO takes time to remove.

Let me know the model and I will also pick one up...thanks.

Back in 2013 I got this Atwood model...but apparently it's been discontinued.
A web search on 'carbon monoxide detector digital' yields other -- available -- options.

I don't remember now how/why exactly I picked this one...but I read somewhere that some models are only suitable for in-home use because they don't tolerate very-cold temperatures well. This unit can be stored at temperatures down to -10 °F but it needs to be 40°F - 100°F for operation, so I think that's why I picked it. And if I'm using the catalytic heater at all I set it's output to keep the camper around 45° - 60° or so...more-or-less.

Here are some scanned pages from the manual that came with the detector -- pages that discuss CO levels.
View attachment Atwood-Kidde_900-0140.pdf

The level of CO at which the detector alarms depends on how long it's been at that level -- the higher the concentration the sooner the alarm will sound. 11 ppm is the lowest it reads and it won't ever sound an alarm for concentrations less than 30 ppm.
I think the highest CO concentration I've seen on this unit when I ran the Wave heater was 17 ppm. But that was probably just a transient level -- maybe when I fired up the heater -- because when I reset its memory it didn't show anything higher than 0 for several more hours of heater use (though a display of "0" could be anything up to 10 ppm)
The fact that measured CO levels have remained very low when I use my Wave heater is a result of how catalytic heaters burn -- why they're safe at all -- and the amount of venting I'm doing: The roof vent open a bit and one of the turnbuckle-access sliders open a bit. "How much is 'open a bit'?" Catalytic heater users should read the instructions that came with the heater to decide for themselves.

What CO level is safe? Don't rely on what I do or say. Here's an excerpt from the Consumer Product Safety Commission website:

What CO level is dangerous to my health?
The health effects of CO depend on the CO concentration and length of exposure, as well as each individual's health condition. CO concentration is measured in parts per million (ppm). Most people will not experience any symptoms from prolonged exposure to CO levels of approximately 1 to 70 ppm but some heart patients might experience an increase in chest pain. As CO levels increase and remain above 70 ppm, symptoms become more noticeable and can include headache, fatigue and nausea. At sustained CO concentrations above 150 to 200 ppm, disorientation, unconsciousness, and death are possible.

 

[Wallowa]

Mark,

Excellent information...I will dig into looking for a CO monitor with a readout..

Thanks!

Phil

Ps..Crap first site [Emedicine..] stated this: "Learn about Carbon monoxide poisoning (CO), a colorless, odorless gas and is the leading causes of accidental deaths in the US." That statement just does not ring true. I will post back when and if I find a monitor for my Hawk.

=========================

http://www.pksafety.com/bw-clip-2-year-single-gas-detector-co.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw09C5BRDy972s6q2y4egBEiQA5_guv8SD1y7laKe2O0MKtdXWSh6rnTi9cec6eY5eYKtjVtsaAi208P8HAQ

Perhaps the one I will purchase...no temp limits and adjustable alarm with full readout and memory.

 

[Area45]

For the people adding the Wave, or any heater to your camper, without the stock furnace where are you mounting our propane? I have the shell without the furnace/propane box. So no access from the outside door. Could I just mount a small propane tank to the back wall? Then just drill a hole for the propane hose?

 

[idahoron]

I run my hose between the bed and the camper. If I am hooked to a 20 pound tank I leave it on the ground. If I am hooked to the 10 pound tanks I open the door to attach it to the tank but still route the hose between the camper and the bed of the truck. My heater is a Buddy. By going through the turnbuckle hole it also gives some venting down low where it does the best.