Need advise/help with Lithium battery install

T

tacomatraveller

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Joined
Dec 18, 2020
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Location
Ventura County, CA
I am trying to understand what I need to do in order to install a Battleborn 100AH Lithium battery into my 2018 Fleet. The more I read to more confused I get. I don't want to start the install and find out I missed something critical and burn down the FWC. I believe I can save about 100 pounds of weight by replacing my 2 6 volt batteries with 1 Battleborn battery.

Vehicle: 2018 Tacoma, with the wiring that goes from battery to bed of truck for camper.

Camper:
2018 Fleet
160 Watt Overland Solar panel on roof
currently 2 6 Volt AGM US Batteries (210 AH each, 66 pounds each)
Overland Solar MPPT 100/15 charge controller
Overland Solar MPPT Battery monitor
Blue Sea 7611 battery seperator

I have contacted Overland Solar to see if the charge controller and battery monitor are Lithium compatible but have not heard back from them.

If the Overland Solar charge controller and Battery monitor are Lithium compatible, can I just switch out the batteries?

If the Overland Solar equipment is not Lithium compatible, I think I could get a Victron Smartsolar MPPT 100/15 controller with a Victron battery monitor. Am I on the right path?

Do I need to change the Blue Sea 7611 Battery separator at all?

I am confused as to wether my truck will still charge the FWC batteries, or maybe the Solar won't charge the vehicle batteries anymore. I thought I read somewhere that there could be some issues, but I am lost about that part.

Sorry for long question but trying to give as much relevant info as I can.

Can one of you helpful souls please help. I know you're out there. Saving 100 pounds of weight sounds great to me.





I I
 
My understanding is that the 'Overland Solar' charge controller is just a rebranded Victron MPPT 100/15 without the Victron bluetooth or software support. If so, it should be configurable for lithium. There is not a lot to change, set the absorption voltage to 13.8 - 14.0V, the absorption time to something like 15 min, and the float voltage to 13.3 - 13.4V and you are done.
 
I also have a 120 Watt portable solar panel that I occasionally plug into my FWC, which brings my solar to 280 Watts (160+120).
Is my current charge controller (MPPT 100/15) adequate or should I get a 100/20 or 100/30, or something else?

I
 
To add to what rando said, check out the Overland Solar manual - https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0251/1127/files/MPPT_control_manual.pdf?4484961060829597966

Those settings should be readily available. As to if the 75/15 (not sure Victron ever made a 100/15?) is good for up to 200W of solar panels. See the handy table on this page https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy-SCC020030200-BlueSolar-MPPT-Charge-Controller-10030_p_3666.html

Your 2018 Tacoma definitely has a "smart" alternator. Has it been doing an OK job of charging your existing batteries? I'm guessing not if you are thinking of getting a new battery. Because you have a smart alternator, I am wondering if it is clever enough to protect itself if the batteries are really drained. What is the maximum current you have seen going into the camper batteries from the alternator? I used to see 90A with a "Dumb" alternator and 225AH of AGM batteries. I haven't tried that with 200AH of LiFePo4 batteries, being concerned that these new batteries (with much lower internal resistance) would max out the internal BMS and try to draw 200Amps and fry my alternator. So I am using a Victron 30A Orion DC-DC converter/charger. Keep in mind that I have 2g wire coming from my alternator to the camper. Your factory wiring may limit the amps to much lower values and could be totally fine.

And yes, the weight savings is substantial. I had similar 225AH 6V batteries in my Hawk build and actually giggled when the delivery guy casually handed me my new 100AH BB!
 
Unless the portable solar panel is the same voltage as the roof top which I suspect it isn't, you will need to address the voltage difference.
As I recall the FWC Overland panel is about 32 volts. Your portable panel should be the same to simply plug in parallel.
Most portable panels are in the range of about 17v to about 22v. These would not be directly compatable.

I would call FWC technical support and also Overland Solar to get their recommendations.

https://fourwheelcampers.com/contact-us/

https://www.overlandsolar.com/

Both companies are responsive to their customers. Just contact them directly and ask questions.

Paul
 
Slight topic shift:

Setting aside the panel matching issue ...

Won't an MPPT controller continue to function properly (limited to its maximum rated output) even if panels with a total power output rating well beyond the MPPT output power capability are connected and seeing full sun, or is there a potential for damage to occur?

Update: I found the answer to my question in the Victron datasheet. The Smart MPPT 100/30 can handle an array of panels with a maximum short circuit current of 35 amps. It says damage to the controller can occur if that is exceeded.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-BlueSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-100-30-&-100-50-EN.pdf
 
tacomatraveller said:
I also have a 120 Watt portable solar panel that I occasionally plug into my FWC, which brings my solar to 280 Watts (160+120).
Is my current charge controller (MPPT 100/15) adequate or should I get a 100/20 or 100/30, or something else?

I
Click to expand...
It depends a little bit on why you are using a portable solar panel. If you are planning on using it when the roof top solar is shaded, then you should be fine as it is an either/or situation. If you plan on using both together in full sun then you may not get the maximum power out of both panels. However realize that you will never get the full rated power out of both panels, so you may be fine even using both in parallel. You won't damage anything as long as the sum of the short circuit currents is < 15A, which is almost certainly the case.

As to any voltage miss-match between the panels - this will decrease the output of your panels to the lower of the two voltages multiplied by the sum of the currents - not a huge deal unless you are going for maximum efficiency.
 
I have a 2018 Fleet on a Tacoma. When I converted my AGM to LifePo4, I measured and the Battleborn would not fit in the battery compartment, with the Xantrex inverter, Victron MPPT, and Xantrex automatic transfer switch. I went with the Renogy LifeP04 100aH battery. I also had to upgrade the converter to the model + adapter that can charge Lithium. The Victron Orion isolated DC to DC charger handles the power from the alternator. The automatic transfer switch, switches between shore power or inverter power to the outlet in the camper.
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I am trying to understand how to install a Battleborn 100 AH battery in my 2018 Fleet.
Solar Overland replied and said that the charge controller and battery monitor would work with a lithium battery. Good news.

Next question: Full time solar panel is 160 Watts. Additional portable is 120 Watts. Both are Overland Solar brand. Total watts combined are 280. I think I need a MPPT 100/20 charge controller. Is that correct?
 
tacomatraveller said:
I am trying to understand how to install a Battleborn 100 AH battery in my 2018 Fleet.
Solar Overland replied and said that the charge controller and battery monitor would work with a lithium battery. Good news.

Next question: Full time solar panel is 160 Watts. Additional portable is 120 Watts. Both are Overland Solar brand. Total watts combined are 280. I think I need a MPPT 100/20 charge controller. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
You will probably be OK with your existing 75/15A charge controller. As we were discussing before, you will never get the full 280W out of your solar panels, most of the time it will be a maximum 180 - 220W, which is about the max for your 75/15 charge controller (max output is 15A at 14V = 210W).

What you should check is the short circuit current on your two panels - it will be marked on the data plate as Isc. Add these two numbers together, if it is 15A or less than you cannot damage your existing charge controller.

I wouldn't upgrade until you know there is a problem (unless you just want the added goodness of the Victron bluetooth).
 
buckland said:
2011 Eagle. The site will help you.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Seems like an inexpensive solution to replacing the Iota for one compatible with the Lithium batteries.
 
My Hawk is a 2014. I replaced the standard IQ4 with the IQ4-Lifepo. FWC switched to the internal IQ4 Iota some time after I bought my Hawk. The unit with the internal cannot accept the IQ4-Lifepo module.

Look on the fan end of the Iota for an RJ-11 (telephone) jack with a cable plugged into the Unit. The other end of that cable will be an IQ4 for lead acid. Simply unplug that IQ4 & plug in the IQ4-Lifepo and you are a go for your LiFePO4 battery for shore power.

Paul
 
PaulT said:
My Hawk is a 2014. I replaced the standard IQ4 with the IQ4-Lifepo. FWC switched to the internal IQ4 Iota some time after I bought my Hawk. The unit with the internal cannot accept the IQ4-Lifepo module.

Look on the fan end of the Iota for an RJ-11 (telephone) jack with a cable plugged into the Unit. The other end of that cable will be an IQ4 for lead acid. Simply unplug that IQ4 & plug in the IQ4-Lifepo and you are a go for your LiFePO4 battery for shore power.

Paul
Click to expand...
Thanks. Mine is a DLS-30/IQ4. It has the Jack next to the fan, no cable plugged in, but also a sticker directly above that says “Dual voltage jack disabled”. Looks like mine won’t work with the add-on.
 
Outnabout said:
Thanks. Mine is a DLS-30/IQ4. It has the Jack next to the fan, no cable plugged in, but also a sticker directly above that says “Dual voltage jack disabled”. Looks like mine won’t work with the add-on.
Click to expand...
Same happened to me. I spoke with an Iota technical sales rep. I replaced the stock IQ4. $129 for the new Iota DLS 30A and $23 for the IQ4 LIFEPO Smart Charge Controller to take it up to 14.4 volts. After I competed my install, I wondered if it would have been better to get an all in one charger/converter/inverter, but there’s not much space behind where the current converter/charger is.
 
My 2016 also has the Iota with the internal IQ4 module that is not replaceable. I really don't use shore power as we never camp anywhere with plug ins, but if I did, I would consider switching the IOTA for the Victron 30A charger:
https://shop.pkys.com/ip22-charger-12-30-1

It is only a little more than the IOTA + IQ4 module and gives you much more flexibility in terms of dialing in the settings and monitoring what is going on over the Victron bluetooth app.

Also to note, the factory IOTA (either the fixed voltage or the one with the internal IQ4) will work OK with a LiFePO4 battery. The primary thing to note is that it would be best not to leave shore power plugged in for long periods (>weeks) as it provides a float charge of 13.6V and lithium does not want/need a float charge. With a programmable charger (like the Victron above) you can set the 'float' charge to 13.3 - 13.4V, which won't really charge the battery but is enough that the charger will carry any electrical loads without depleting the battery.
 
When the time comes I decide to go LiFePo I will most likely just go all Victron and not mix the brand of the various component upgrades I will need. Thanks for the discussion. Much to be learned.
 
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