options list for new Hawk, opinions? thoughts?

[mctacoslayer]

Hello WTWers

I'm putting together an options list for a new Hawk, which I hope to order in the next couple months. I live in the pacific northwest(BC canada). I have a 2007 tundra that will have airbags. the camper will live on the truck full time. I would love to hear what the community here thinks about some of the options available.

I'm on a budget so I'm trying to be as frugal as possible on the options but I would massively regret not getting something thats deemed essential. Heres the list I have so far. We are a family of 3 (2 adults, 1 child). Most camping would be short trips, 2-4 days. No long term dry camping (at first anyways)....we are casual campers who hope a truck camper will help enable us to camp more often here in the cool, rainy NW.

heres what I'm thinking so far...

Hawk couch layout
2.7 3 way fridge
furnace
FF fan
extra vent
arctic pack
tracks only yakima

heres what I'm on the fence about

1) an awning! none, side or batwing...how are they in the rain?

2) fridge options. so many to choose from. any regrets getting the 2.7 3 way? I would like silent.

3) hot water/outside shower? sounds like it would be nice...not sure if I would use it. can always boil water for dishes etc.

4) can I get a solar controller installed now and get the panel later?

5) any other "off list" options I should consider? King bed available?

6) back steps to roof, rear flood lights, exterior lights...essential?

7) probably will pick up the jacks down the road. do people take the truck in for maintenance with the camper installed, or would the camper need to be removed?

thanks for the advice everybody!

cheers!

T

 

[takingatrip1]

I have a Hawk camper that I purchased used so my decisions were made already by the original owner.

I have rear flood lights (i've upgraded them to LED) I rarely use them and could probably get by w/o them. (ask if the camper gets pre-wired in the event you'd like to add them yourself later)

I have the outside shower and its very nice to have a hot shower in the middle of nowhere. You do need to be in the middle of nowhere even if you've got a privacy enclosure since there is the waste water that you neighboring campsites wont appreciate

I have the rear steps...they're handy

I'd probably opt for the dual battery

Instead of two fans I think 1 fan and 1 vent would work fine

The arctic liner seems to work pretty well, although I've never been in a FWC w/o it .

Ive taken my truck to get serviced with the camper on never hasnt been an issue. I do however remove the camper since my truck is my daily driver.

I have a side awning....shades your friend. I've read mixed reviews on the rear awning though.

Yakima tracks for mounting a solar panel on , consider the lift assist ( unless you want to do this yourself) .

Good luck ! hope this helps

 

[Montreat]

Options are all a matter of personal taste and how you and family will use your camper. I have a fleet model on a tacoma so am in a little different situation. I have an awning and have never used it, would be the first thing i eliminate. I have the 2 way refrigerator, cost a little more but is a little quieter and uses less power, I love it. I have the water heater and shower, in the fleet model I would have rather had the storage space and saved the $$$. You can get your unit prewired for solar, I love solar and would add it but at the very least have it prewired. Again I have the steps and lighting but do not find them useful, others do. I do not have the arctic pack so it is the case of if I never had it I don't miss it, it can be added later and there is a topic on making it yourself. I have taken my jacks off, again to save weight and make it a little more eye appealing, have never removed the camper for service. As far as the layout I have the front dinette and love it, opens up the floor space a little. The furnace is nice on those chilly mornings. I do have a fantastic fan but no extra vent and I have the yakima rails which are great for fastening the solar. Would consider adding the second battery but that also can be added later.The quality build is great and the service also. Hope this helps.

 

[rando]

i just went through this same process ordering a fleet, although it hasn't arrived yet so I may not be the best qualified to answer your questions. I can tell you why we chose what we did:

1) We went with the side awning. We have one on our current camper and don't use it a whole lot, but it is useful in the sun (we are in CO) and the the rain. It also helps make outside living space. We like to be outside most of the time when we camp, and were worried that a truck camper makes that a little harder as it is kind of difficult to go in and out. Our hope is that the awning will be an incentive to be outside more.

2) We got the 80L 2 way, but mainly because go longer dry camping trips and feel that the 2 way is less finicky than the 3 way.

3) We also got this. Honestly, we mainly did this for resale. It would be very hard to add it later and I think most buyers would expect hot and cold running water on what will still be a $20K+ used camper if/when we sell. If you don't fill it, it actually doesn't add too much weight.

4) Do the solar panel and controller yourself later. This is the most overpriced FWC option. It comes prewired, and if you are remotely handy you can add a high quality 160W system later for ~ $300.

5) We added a second FF to the front vent as we camp in the desert a lot and may appreciate the breeze over the bed.

6) We got none of these. From borrowing a friends Fleet, the outdoor lights are WAY to bright to use anywhere, and we don't plan on loading boats on the roof.

7) No jacks. We will cross that bridge if we ever need them, but don't plan on removing the camper.

Good luck!

Hello WTWers

I'm putting together an options list for a new Hawk, which I hope to order in the next couple months. I live in the pacific northwest(BC canada). I have a 2007 tundra that will have airbags. the camper will live on the truck full time. I would love to hear what the community here thinks about some of the options available.

I'm on a budget so I'm trying to be as frugal as possible on the options but I would massively regret not getting something thats deemed essential. Heres the list I have so far. We are a family of 3 (2 adults, 1 child). Most camping would be short trips, 2-4 days. No long term dry camping (at first anyways)....we are casual campers who hope a truck camper will help enable us to camp more often here in the cool, rainy NW.

heres what I'm thinking so far...

Hawk couch layout
2.7 3 way fridge
furnace
FF fan
extra vent
arctic pack
tracks only yakima

heres what I'm on the fence about

1) an awning! none, side or batwing...how are they in the rain?

2) fridge options. so many to choose from. any regrets getting the 2.7 3 way? I would like silent.

3) hot water/outside shower? sounds like it would be nice...not sure if I would use it. can always boil water for dishes etc.

4) can I get a solar controller installed now and get the panel later?

5) any other "off list" options I should consider? King bed available?

6) back steps to roof, rear flood lights, exterior lights...essential?

7) probably will pick up the jacks down the road. do people take the truck in for maintenance with the camper installed, or would the camper need to be removed?

thanks for the advice everybody!

cheers!
T

 

[Squatch]

I bought our Eagle as a used shell model with some options. I love the rollover couch, stove, furnace. We have no water system or sink and I prefer that. Much more interior space and no water tanks to keep from freezing or have to sanitize regularly. For a shower I'm using this. Pretty much a fancy version of the old solar shower bag.



http://roadshower.com/

If you are starting from scratch I'd get the rack tracks.

I'll add the rear floodlights eventually. The camper is wired for them. Good for backing at night mainly. We do use the porch light all the time.

I would get the outside lift assist struts. We have the internal ones and will get around to moving them outside. They help a lot.

Personally I have no desire to climb up those little steps on the back. I think a proper ladder makes more sense.

We have a separate 2 way fridge. It's great but that adds the need for solar or other charging methods.

To me an awning is too small. We normally just carry an EZ-up or screen house if camping someplace buggy.

Yes on the 2nd vent and if I was buying new they would both have the fans in them.

We don't have the arctic pack but will eventually.

 

[longhorn1]

We purchased a loaded Grandby in 2014. I'm not a do it yourself guy, so we got what we needed.

Power fan over bed and regular vent in rear. Would order 2 power vents if I did it again.

80L compressor fridge, 2 batteries, 100W solar and controller, and rear solar plug. I bought 80W portable to plug in, without controller as the rear was wired to the controller.

If you are going with 1 battery, and no solar, the 3-way fridge makes sense. I didn't want the 3-way so 2 batteries and solar.

Rear steps, great to hang towels. Rear spot lights and all LED outside and inside.

Furnace and water, with hot water and outside shower was a must for us. 2 burner stove has been great.

Curve Porta pottie for use at night. Lift assist struts front and back. Side and rear awnings. Hardly use the rear but the side has been great for shade and rain.

No roof racks, but they have been used by others to mount solar to. If you get the rear and roof solar plugs you could plug in a portable that has a controller.

All those options cost. If you can work with electric and wood, maybe some of these things can be added later.

Best of luck. jd

Sent from my SM-G900V using Wander The West mobile app

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Hello WTWers

I'm putting together an options list for a new Hawk, which I hope to order in the next couple months. I live in the pacific northwest(BC canada). I have a 2007 tundra that will have airbags. the camper will live on the truck full time. I would love to hear what the community here thinks about some of the options available.

I'm on a budget so I'm trying to be as frugal as possible on the options but I would massively regret not getting something thats deemed essential. Heres the list I have so far. We are a family of 3 (2 adults, 1 child). Most camping would be short trips, 2-4 days. No long term dry camping (at first anyways)....we are casual campers who hope a truck camper will help enable us to camp more often here in the cool, rainy NW.

heres what I'm thinking so far...

Hawk couch layout < I did not care for the roll over couch. Feet in the aisle, plus the table in the aisle were a hassle. Window always blocked.>
2.7 3 way fridge < Maybe. I went with the 80L Dometic, but it will be a chest style (Engel) in our new camper. See about getting an extra condenser cooling fan regardless of which refer you choose.>
furnace
FF fan
extra vent
arctic pack
tracks only yakima <Go full length.>

heres what I'm on the fence about

1) an awning! none, side or batwing...how are they in the rain? <Yes, I'd go with the smaller side awning.>

2) fridge options. so many to choose from. any regrets getting the 2.7 3 way? I would like silent.

3) hot water/outside shower? sounds like it would be nice...not sure if I would use it. can always boil water for dishes etc. <We boil for dishes & bath.>

4) can I get a solar controller installed now and get the panel later? <Get the wiring/plugs for top and back, install yourself.>

5) any other "off list" options I should consider? King bed available? <External gas struts to help lift the top.>

6) back steps to roof, rear flood lights, exterior lights...essential? <Steps are handy if you keep things on the racks.>

7) probably will pick up the jacks down the road. do people take the truck in for maintenance with the camper installed, or would the camper need to be removed?

thanks for the advice everybody!

cheers!
T

My two cents worth are above. So much of this is personal choice and preference. Have fun!!!

 

[Ace!]

Where are you located? You could take a look at mine, with similar options if you're local.

I have the side awning and think it is a great option.

I have a 65L refrigerator. That was a mistake. I don't need a lot, but nothing fits well in the 65L. Each shelf is so short you can't put anything in there. Also, the space for it in the camper isn't the most efficient. Now that I've had the camper close to a year (maybe 10 months or so), I realize I should have gotten at minimum the 80L and probably the 110L. I like the 2-way fridge. I had a 3-way in a trailer and it was not very efficient. It didn't get or hold temperature nearly as well as the 2-way. I don't camp in campgrounds and the ground is often uneven. The propane doesn't work well if not level.

I had outside water/shower on a trailer and never used it, not once. Didn't order it this time.

The camper comes wired with solar connections on the roof and on the rear. Adding a solar controller is very simple once you decide what panels you want and where you want them mounted, if not portable. You'll want to size the controller to the amount of solar you carry.

As stated by others, the external lift struts are worth it in my opinion.

 

[Stalking Light]

I have a Eagle, much smaller that what you're getting.

I have and use the hot water heater and outdoor shower.

I rarely use my side awning.

I have the rear steps but mostly use them as attachment points for hammocks, etc.

I have the rear floods and don't use them.

I started with a fan over the stove and a vent over the bed but quickly learned I needed a fan over both.

I have the rear awning and use it on occasion, mostly on rainy winter nights.

I have a 65L 2 way Dometic fridge. It's OK for me size wise but a major power hog. I understand the new Isotherms that FWC is using now are more efficient.

I started with 100w of solar on the roof but now have 300w. I upgraded partly because I use a laptop but mostly due to the fridge.

 

[97grandby]

Congrats on your upcoming order. Here is my view on your options lists and what I would use with my family. We have one 6 year old child as well so a family of 3.

1) an awning! none, side or batwing...how are they in the rain?-
My vote is they are are way overpriced. I found an ez-up for 70.00 on sale at woot.com and I like being able to move it around and use it when we are not in the camper. 1400.00 is just to much money for some shade.

2) fridge options. so many to choose from. any regrets getting the 2.7 3 way? I would like silent.
***I have had propane but I would and have currently compressor 2 way style. It keeps the food at a steady temp, and I don't have to worry about the fridge going bad if its off level. My dad had to pull apart his entire alaskan camper to get his fridge out because he pulled off the side of the road for lunch and the truck wasn't level. 1 hour later and his 1,000.00 fridge was toast. I also like the fact one less flame constantly going in my camper. Its a small one and for the most part they work well, but I just like keeping things burning to the least amount as possible. The down side is you need dual batts and solar or a generator if you are going to sitting at the same camp site for a few days.

3) hot water/outside shower? sounds like it would be nice...not sure if I would use it. can always boil water for dishes etc.
To me the cost is pretty high but even more so is space it takes up in the cabinets. You can wash your hair in the sink or set up an outside shower pretty easy and a lot cheaper then getting one built in. I would skip this one.

4) can I get a solar controller installed now and get the panel later?
**not sure, FWC I'm sure can answer this one. I know they pre-wire for a panel now from the factory. I would add the cargo tracks only on the roof. That makes it very simple and secure to add solar later on down the road.

5) any other "off list" options I should consider? King bed available?-
The only thing I would have added was A/C but I live in Las Vegas, NV and this is a pretty major thing to try and add latter.

6) back steps to roof, rear flood lights, exterior lights...essential?
I think back steps are pointless. I have never needed to get on the roof at a camp site in 15 years of owning 4wc's. So I would skip those for sure. I haven't had rear flood lights but they are very bright. I have always gotten along fine with just the rear porch light. The exterior lights are pretty nice on my brothers new Grandby. Those would be a nice to have, but not required if I ordered a new one.

7) probably will pick up the jacks down the road. do people take the truck in for maintenance with the camper installed, or would the camper need to be removed?
I have had my truck in the shop several times and never been an issue with it being left on.

I would add solar myself and not pay the huge markup FWC charges. You could build a very nice and much more powerful system then 4wc's for half the cost. Good luck with your new camper.

 

[PaulT]

Our 2014 front dinette Hawk is pretty much loaded.
Outside shower & hot water heater used sometimes. Inside shower never used.

We use the rear steps for hanging trash bags, clothes lines, & occasionally as an anchor point for a tarp.
A lower cost but effective option for showers is the Nemo Helio pressure shower. http://www.nemoequipment.com/

Side awning is used essentially every trip, rear awning used only occasionally.

Solar wiring definitely needed but read & understand the solar threads here & HandyBobSolar blog before spending money on solar equipment. If you get the 2 way fridge, you will need two batteries.
With a fridge, get a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer & put the outdoor sensor in the fridge. This one works for me. https://www.acurite.com/digital-thermometer-00420.html

We use the outside down facing lights, rear porch, & awning lights all the time. The exterior side lights are used very rarely. Flood lights used sometimes.

Enjoy the planning and time your order for the less busy season to avoid the longer wait time.

Paul

 

[Ace!]

I know I mentioned my poor refrigerator decision above. I re-read your original post and again would say, I think you'll want the biggest one you can get. The difference between small and large isn't as much as the small. If you don't dry camp (much) and you have a child, I think you'll appreciate having more than less. Also, the 2-way will keep things colder and you won't have to worry about power consumption if you're in an RV or camp ground with power.

 

[mctacoslayer]

All these replies have been very informative and helpful....thanks all!

The most difficult decision I think will be the fridge. I was sold on the 3 way by virtue of it being able to run off propane and living(therefore camping) where its often cold, cloudy and rainy. The 2 ways can have more room(essential), even cooling etc.....I dont expect to camp more than 3-4 days at a time at first... Maybe 2 way fridge...dual batteries(is that enough juice to run one of the larger fridges for a few days?) and eventually buy a solar setup aftermarket would be the smarter way to go. decisions!

as far as electrical I don't expect to be doing much more than running the fans, charging phones, furnace and fridge.

a bug tent/ez-up in leu of a side awning(or both ) sounds like a good idea..

Lots to process!

Cheers!

T

 

[Ace!]

I used my fridge for three days with no solar. My batteries (2) got down pretty low, but were fine.

 

[fireball]

If you share with us a bit more about your plans, we might be able to better guide you. Everyone uses their truck and camper differently so some of it will depend on what you are doing!

Regarding the awning, I would recommend the Fiamma side awning. It is really nice that it attaches tightly to the side of the camper and provides a nice big area of sun shade and rain shelter. It is expensive, but it doesn't take up any storage space, is super quick and easy to deploy and stow with only one person.

The reason to get the rear awning would be the ability to keep the back door open when raining. I don't have one, so maybe someone else can chime in and let you know if that is possible. You don't spend a lot of time at the rear of the camper, so having cover there, especially the limited amount offered by the FWC rear awning doesn't seem worth it to me.

Regarding floorplan layout, we really like the side dinette. It gave my wife a place to sit and feed the baby, and it folds down easily into a bed for my older daughter and still allows a walkway for us to come in after she goes to sleep. I suspect we *might* like the front dinette more, but we bought our Hawk used and got what we got!

Ours came with only one roof vent. One of the first things we did was take it to the fine folks at Mainline Overland and have them cut a second hole in the roof and install two powered vents. They are awesome and kept the sleeping conditions very comfortable at the recent Mid-Atlantic Overland festival where nighttime temps were in the mid 70s. I had a nice cool breeze coming right past me up in bed all night long.

Good luck!

 

[moveinon]

I bought a used Fleet with everything on it but solar and two way refrigerator so have had the opportunity to test out everything for some time in different situations. Much of what I have used is specific to where I like to camp and our style of camping just as it will be for you.

My camper came with the 3 way refrigerator and I camp regularly in very uneven sites. I would certainly put in a two way with solar and higher amp hour batteries if I was starting from scratch. If it was an option I would also have #6 wire installed from the truck to the camper batteries. As others have said solar is a much cheaper DIY project.

Because of where I camp, and sometimes getting there late, after dark, the rear floods have been very helpful. Backup light on my Tacoma just does not cut it in the backwoods.

I use the Fiamma side awning for shade, rain, and with bug netting that velcros on when in mosquito areas. It has been great to have. Never used the back awning, took it off and sold it.

Carry wood or chairs on the roof rack so camper steps are used every trip. As others have said I also use them for garbage bag, close line or hammock-but could use the jack brackets.

We camp and go hiking a lot as well as take young grandchildren so outside shower has been great to have. If we don’t use the outside shower I just heat water on the stove for dishes.

We use exterior lights (LED) most trips-mainly the side light under the awning. Could just as easily use a lantern, but the light is there so.

I have one fan vent and one non-fan vent and that works fine for us because we do not regularly camp in really hot areas. Would not want to do without the one fan though.

Here in Oregon, and I am sure in BC also, the furnace is essential to extending the camping season. We use it a lot for those cooler nights even though I do not winter camp any more.

I have high amp hour dual batteries - good to have for more than a couple of days camping.

I store the camper on a rolling cart every winter so need jacks. In addition I had to remove the camper earlier this summer to replace a broken attachment bolt- needed jacks for that. I get maintenance done while the camper is off but most places can do anything I need with the camper on. Leaving it on full time jacks would probably not be such a big deal.

Wife hates going outside in the middle of the night so having a porti-potty keeps her camping with me. Like the side dinette plan for our Fleet better than the couch setup.

Lift struts have been a very good thing for us. And if I go from the three way fridge to two way and solar it would be a requirement.

If you may want something in the future and it requires wiring get the camper prewired as it will make it much easier to add in the future. Somethings like an awning is easy to add later. Good to get plans and pictures of your build so the you know where the framework is to later add items.

 

[LuckyDan]

If your fridge decision is the about your last one to wrestle with I'll chime in.

As already mentioned the more cubic inches the better IMO. I can't think of a time someone said they have too much fridge.

The beauties of a 3 way are:
1 typically a lower acquisition price
2 lower demand/no demand on the battery w propane

The downside:
1 typically less usable space for # of cubic inches
2 need to level the camper to make it work when stopped

Maybe my experiences will help, so allow me to share. I have an old Grandby with the 3 way Dometic. I grew up with RVs and all had either 3 ways or ice boxes. I've only experienced 1 flat out failure. That was a refrigerant line/vessel failure on my FWC while 4 wheeling into a fishing hole. IMO With maintenance they last well and they aren't a bad choice.

That said, when mine dies I'll go to an AC/DC or DC fridge. Why? First is that I boondock/dry camp almost exclusively and having to level for the fridge is a pain. Second is I have both an expandable solar system and gen set to support it. Third is this makes more propane available for the heater when cold weather camping.

Good luck outfitting your new Hawk. Oh, ditto on the roof lifter shock things. They make a world of difference.



Sent from my iPad using Wander The West

 

[Advmoto18]

Congratulations on your decision. You will have a grand time with your Hawk, regardless of how you option it.

My thoughts and why....

2 way fridge. We pack a lot of veggies and salad stuff. I was told propane will freeze veggies in the lower portion of the fridge, even on setting 1.

Fiamma awning. No comparison, robust design, quality materials and manufacture. No awning is wind proof above a certain MPH sustained wind or gusts, but, my Fiamma has survived some gusts giving me time to get it stowed before any damage.

I opted for the outside shower. I use a Clean Waste privacy tent. The new FWC exterior shower receptical is much better than the old knob style design.

I opted for two roof top vents, the powered one over the bed.

I ordered the complete solar package, including the portable panel. This past July, I managed 3 days of power on my 2x Optima Blue Tops. I did not get any solar charging these 3 days due to camping under a thick forest canopy. FWC now installs the Blue Seas battery separator. A much better product IMO. Solar is your best source to recharge the batteries when off the grid. I do not own nor will I carry a gas generator, too much weight and I do not want to mess with the fuel. Do not rely on you truck's alternator to charge camper batteries. The alternator is a battery maintainer, not a battery charger. Plug into shore power any time you can. Most solar controllers do not support bulk charging mode.

I'm not sure what solar components FWC will install if you do not order the complete package. For instance, I ordered the solar package without the Exide batteries. Decide on your wish list then contact your dealer to find out if ordering components instead of the full option package is available.

I opted for the flush mounted cooktop and sink. Makes it easier to stack and place stuff on the countertop. Most of my cooking is done outside, under the Fiamma awning, using a Partner Steel stove (greatly reduces cooking odors, stains and contaminates inside the camper). I rarely cook inside the camper. The inside cooktop is used 99.9% of the time for boiling water in my tea kettle. I wish FWC offered a single burner, flush mounted, cooktop for this purpose.

Thermal package. A most worthy option IMO if you are camping in sub 40° and >80° temps. Helps the camper retain heat in the cold, thereby reducing the heater's run time on batteries. In the summer, helps sleeping in the camper more tolerable.

I have the hitch mounted steps but no longer carry/use them. I pack this Rubbermaid 2 tier step stool. I use it for getting in/out of the camper and refilling the water tank with 5 gallon cans and any other little tasks requiring a step stool.

WalMart 1.5" memory foam matteress for the bed. I don't know how FWC spec's its bedding foam, but it is hard, not firm! And I like a firm bed, but FWC foam is very very firm. We use queen size sheets on the bed, over the WalMart foam and FWC cushions. Be sure to adjust the roof clamps if you add the foam.

Hot water tank. The wife wouldn't travel/camp with me if she didn't get a nightly hot shower.

Back to the solar option. Read up on the nuances of solar charging. The important thing to remember, maximum (usually published spec) charging only occurs when the sun is at a perfect 90° axis to the panel and when you have a maximum UV index. Also, shading a single cell on a panel can bring the entire panel down. Open the rooftop vent and shade a panel cell will reduce charging. Install a roof rack and carry stuff on your camper roof and you will vastly decrease, if not eliminate altogether, solar charging capability due to shading.

 

[Bseek]

I have a fan vent over the bed and a plain vent over the cab. Love it for sleeping, but forgot that when the lid is down, for all intents and purposes, I don't have a useable fan. Wish I had put in two fans.

 

[mctacoslayer]

thanks again for all the responses...I'm so happy I asked! However now I have some decisions(good ones) to make

some follow up questions . it has to be said that I'm new to this and I'm very much a layman when it comes to all things mechanical, electrical, etc. I'm eager to learn though. Ask me to fix your wifi and I would have no problem

lots to learn about solar. on it

1) solar in the pacific northwest....cloudy, generally cool weather is par for the course. I will opt to have all the prewiring done for solar, as I would save a fair amount of money and try to install a roof panel/controller myself(save that for another topic)...When I am not camping the truck/camper will be living on the city street and may have no access to shore power. Will the solar panel always keep trickle charging the batteries, keeping them charged so when I do go camping its not a concern? assuming no shade, but cloudy

2) If I went with a 2 way fridge, say the isotherm 130L...is the dual battery a requirement if you are camping for even just a couple days(weekends)? assuming no shore power and minimal sun. Also assuming I'm occasionally running the furnace, using the lights and charging phones.

3) how level does a 3 way fridge need to be? do minor angles prevent it from working? seems like thats the dealbreaker for me.

thanks WTW! more to come in sure