Pickup vs. Motor Truck - Hawk on Flatbed in California

[carlaftw]

Hi everyone. I'm trying to understand the requirements for classifying our upcoming F-250/Hawk Flatbed build and how the DMV will classify it.

I know our vehicle is below the weight threshold to classify it as a commercial vehicle - but for those with a flatbed and camper on top, is your vehicle classified as a pickup or motor truck? I'm pretty sure our truck won't technically be commercial, as the GVWR is under 11,500. But I'm curious if anyone has insight to how a truck that is modified with a flatbed and camper is classified. Does anyone have a similar setup in CA? I believe our cost to license goes up a few hundred for the year, and we are required to stop at weight stations, if classified as motor truck and not pickup.

Did anyone do anything similar in California and have some insight about this topic?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ri-f]

Body type in not the issue when registering your truck, it is GVWR. If you convert your pickup into a flatbed, then you have a pickup with a flatbed body. The upgraded flatbed and camper combo's total payload should still be within your original OEM payload rating and GVWR.

You're only an F-250. Even an F-450, although heavier and capable of a higher payload and towing is still in the general weight category of your F-250 pickup. Your new flatbed mod might increase or decrease your total weight by, say, a few hundred pounds, based on steel vs aluminum or the extra weight of storage boxes, etc. I think even a F-450 is within the non commercial truck category, even if it has a GVWR of about 15,000 pounds .You'd virtually have to double your weight to qualify for the next class up, which I think would also require you to have a CDL. Your registration fees won't increase significantly just because you have a flatbed body type on the back of your F-250 pickup. Those fees are based on GVWR and model year and the tax rate where you live. Your truck insurance rate might go up some when you append the camper to your vehicle insurance, but that has nothing to do with the GVWR of your truck.

Rich

 

[carlaftw]

Thanks, Rich. I think I finally understand now that those modifications to the bed only matter if we are in the commercial category, which we aren't. The GVWR of our F-250 will be 10,800#.

 

[heinphoto]

FYI, here is a link to the section of the California DMV code that covers the Pickup vs Motor Truck definitions:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/vehicle-industry-registration-procedures-manual-2/commercial-vehicles/commercial-vehicle-definitions/

Here are a couple of pertinent sections:

Pickup (CVC §471)—A pickup is a motor truck with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and equipped with an open box-type bed less than nine feet in length.

Pickup Exclusions—The following trucks are not pickups:

• Trucks with an open box-type bed that weigh more than 8,000 pounds unladen or exceeding the manufacturer’s GVWR of 11,500 pounds body type model (BTM) VA.
  
• Trucks equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a “utility body” (Utility—BTM UT ).
  
• Trucks with a BTM other than an open box bed (stake, flatbed, dump, etc.).

When I was going through this, my interpretation was that conversion to a flatbed would force the body type classification to Motor Truck regardless of the GVWR and unladen weight. The research I did seemed to support this. However, as with everything associated with DMV, it is complicated.

However, if you are going to install your camper permananetly on the flatbed, I believe you can register as a "Recreational Vehicle", which would get around the Pickup Truck vs Motor Truck issue.

-Good Luck

 

[heinphoto]

Also, here is a long thread on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum from last year concerning this issue:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1608962-california-registration-requirements-information.html

-Scott

 

[ri-f]

California DMV legalize may appear set in stone, but a lot of the interpretation of specific codes is defined by how you check the boxes on specific forms as this example shows:


-------
"...My F450 registration is about $1100. There is indeed a VLF charge and a weight charge. However despite the fact that the GVW on this truck is 14k lbs GVW, it is still not considered a truck for commercial use.

On the registration form REG 343, you mark NO on the box that asks if the truck is used for compensation or for hire. Then you mark YES on the box that asks if this is a commercial vehicle that is operates at 10,001 lbs GVW or more.
After you fill REG 343 out, you then have to fill out REG 4008, Declaration of GVW or CGVW. You can see in Part B, that my F450 would fall under category A for GVW code and the fee is $332. This is the box that the DMV agent instructed me to check.

California considers all pickup trucks to be commercial vehicles so they all get commercial plates. But they are commercial vehicles for PERSONAL use unless you are using the truck for hire..."

------
Your F-250 is still registered and classified as a pickup isn't it? And it still has a GVWR of less than 11,500 pounds, What does your door sticker say? And you're putting a truck camper on the bed, not towing a heavy 5th wheel. And you're using it, personally, for recreation. You're using your pickup's modified body to mount a camper. In your situation it doesn't even seem ambiguous. Has the Calif. DMV told you otherwise, that you are a classified 'motor truck' and there's no way around it? I doubt it. If so, then try talking to a different, more knowlegable agent about the correct forms to fill out, and specifically how to fill out those forms to avoid commercial 'for hire' status.

Of course it's just my opinion, based on the ambiquity of codes, and the comments I've read by people who have been through the registration and form semantics. Every state has it's own codes and these codes are obviously not all clearly understood, or for that matter, logical. For instance, on a side note, and just to add to the confusion, here in Washington state, if you have a FWC shell model slide-in camper (say, four walls and a roof with nothing inside) on your pickup or flatbed it is supposed to be licensed in addition to the truck itself. Their defintion of a "shell" is not the same as FWC's definition. So any shell here, that has a floor attached to the four walls and roof (that is, anything that isn't simply a canopy) is not considered a shell and has to be licensed as a truck camper with its own seperate license plates. This is not true in our neighboring state, Oregon, and a lot of other places as well.

Rich

 

[carlaftw]

Thanks Rich and Scott. We actually don't have our truck yet - it is on order. But it will be 10,800# GVWR and will have a vehicle weight of about 7,800#. Based on what I've read, to even classify the truck as commercial we would have to be using it as commercial (which isn't going to happen) OR it would have to be both over 11,500# GVWR and have a vehicle weight of 8,000# or more. I don't even think it being a flatbed matters as it will just be a pickup with a modified body type model (flatbed).

I'm mostly trying to get all my ducks lined up and get at much understanding as I can. We plan to have the FWC permanently on our F-250. I haven't spoken to anyone at the DMV yet but I probably will as we fill out the paperwork. I'm sure also that calling up a CHP at a weigh station could be informative - I've personally never seen a flatbed or truck with camper pull into one, but I bet I'll be paying closer attention now that we've invested in a rig.

Scott, I did see that thread and combed through it but people seemed just as confused as me! And I read through the DMV codes a lot. That section you linked is under the "Commercial Vehicle" section, which I don't think will apply to our situation.

From my understanding for here in California, I don't believe we have to register the FWC separately.

I never thought I would come to learn so much about GVWR, payloads, weights etc. But it sure has been enlightening!

Carla

 

[ri-f]

Carla, good luck with your new camper-flatbed combo. I'm sure all the paperwork will work out and you'll be able to concentrate on fitting out your new rig vs. getting hung up in obscure legal codes. Of course if you like obcure things, you'll have plenty of time to focus on obcure wiring diagrams and mechanical systems. : )

Best,
Rich

 

[carlaftw]

Haha, thanks Rich! I am definitely down multiple rabbit holes regarding fitting it out, decorating it, potential modifications, GVWR, DMV registration, etc etc etc. Our camper doesn't even arrive until November (truck comes in May) but my brain is OBSESSED!

Needless to say, this has been the most exciting investment for our quality of life by far.

Thanks!

 

[heinphoto]

Haha, thanks Rich! I am definitely down multiple rabbit holes regarding fitting it out, decorating it, potential modifications, GVWR, DMV registration, etc etc etc. Our camper doesn't even arrive until November (truck comes in May) but my brain is OBSESSED!

Needless to say, this has been the most exciting investment for our quality of life by far.

Thanks!

Carla,

We went through the same process a little over a year ago - ordered the camper, special ordered the F350 (with all the associated "education" required), and then began the long wait. In our case, the wait was extended a couple of additional months due to the FWC factory Covid shutdown. However, as Rich said, it will all work itself out, and I'm sure you will love the new camper and all the places it will take you!

-Scott

 

[carlaftw]

Carla,

We went through the same process a little over a year ago - ordered the camper, special ordered the F350 (with all the associated "education" required), and then began the long wait. In our case, the wait was extended a couple of additional months due to the FWC factory Covid shutdown. However, as Rich said, it will all work itself out, and I'm sure you will love the new camper and all the places it will take you!

-Scott

Thanks, Scott! I think the F-350 is 11,500 GVWR so you probably had to register as commercial? It sounds like y'all did the same thing with regard to ordering the camper and special ordering the truck. Did you get an FX4 or Tremor build? We went with the F-250 Tremor and are super excited to try it out off-roading before the camper arrives. I can't wait!

 

[heinphoto]

Thanks, Scott! I think the F-350 is 11,500 GVWR so you probably had to register as commercial? It sounds like y'all did the same thing with regard to ordering the camper and special ordering the truck. Did you get an FX4 or Tremor build? We went with the F-250 Tremor and are super excited to try it out off-roading before the camper arrives. I can't wait!

We ordered the F350 with the 11,400# GVWR "derate", so we were able to register it as a pickup. However, we did have to keep on top of the dealer to make sure they actually registered it properly (they mostly sell F350s to commerical customers, so they seemed to want to register it as a "Motor Truck", by default).

Since we ultimately decided on a Grandby instead of the Hawk, we ended up ordering a SuperCab long-bed FX4. If we had stuck with the Hawk as I had originally planned, I probably would have ordered the Tremor. It seems like the perfect FWC hauler if you don't want to deal with aftermarket upgrades.

-Scott

 

[MR.141]

Another thing to consider is an "incomplete" vehicle like a motor truck will sometimes have de rated or different drivetrains then the normal truck.

 

[ntsqd]

A mobile welder old friend of mine told me that even with the welding unit bolted to the bed, his flat bed technically meant that he had to stop in the scales. The only trucks exempt from having to go thru any and all scales are pick-up trucks with the factory bed on them. I noted that some of the VC posted earlier made a distinction between a pick-up bed and a utility bed. It would not surprise me if trucks with utility beds also technically have to stop at the scales. In all of the time that I drove a utility bedded 1 ton for an employer I was never told that I needed to go thru the scales and I was never pulled over for failing to go thru the scales.

If you register your truck as an RV then all of this is moot. It also means that you won't be paying the weight fees, which can be a quite significant part of the total registration fee.

 

[carlaftw]

Thanks! They definitely don’t make it easy to understand. To me it seems a lot is dependent on the actual GVWR of the truck.

Now I’m curious, once I get the flatbed and caper on the truck, can it actually be registered as an RV in California?

 

[ntsqd]

As I recall the determining factors are permanent sleeping, eating, and a commode.

Note that if you do take the camper off for any reason, and have so much as a bag of groceries on the flatbed while on public highways they can ticket you for hauling stuff without a 'commercial' plate. The penalty is, at the least, the weight fess going all of the way back to the date of the conversion from commercial. A friend who can find anything worth actually knowing found that little tidbit.

 

[carlaftw]

Thanks - I think we will look more into the RV registration as we get closer to the install date of our flatbed and camper.

I do know that information about if the camper comes off; however, we don’t plan to ever take it off and the pop-up will be installed at the same time as the flatbed. We also plan to throw a camper shell on the back until the camper is installed, which also changes its use designation; so technically, we won't ever have a "commercial" truck.

If anyone has any information specific to CA regarding their flatbed camper, that would be the most helpful; otherwise, it’s all a bit superfluous.

Would love to know if anyone with a Hawk flatbed on their truck registered it as an RV in California..