Push me over, or steer me away, from the edge - Hawk Flatbed

[auser]

New user, first time poster.

I'm very close to purchasing a Hawk Flatbed, but have some hesitations. I'm hoping other FWC owners can confirm or allay my fears. Our current rig is a Ram Promaster campervan - its just about perfect, except for the lack of four wheel drive and no dinette (we both work on the road, so having a table for laptops will be a huge improvement).

Here are the reasons I've not yet pulled the trigger (there are a bunch - I've tried to provide some detail as to why I care).

1. Condensation: How often, if ever, does the pop-up canvas get soggy from condensation? I read a post somewhere about a guy that wipes up moisture in the morning from all the canvas surfaces, AND under his MATTRESS. Is that really a thing? Does the insulation layer / winter package help?

2. Specific flatbed question: How annoying is it to get in and out of a flatbed? The scissor steps seem like they take up a lot of space (first step is far from the side of the truck), but my dog can't use a ladder. Is the entrance / exit as annoying as I imagine? Is there some magic solution I'm not thinking of?

3. Fuel economy: The Promaster gets 17-18 mpg cruising around the CO mountains. With a Ram 2500 or F-250, plus flatbed camper, am I going to get 10 mph? Any real world numbers out there? Anyone have experience with a chip/programmer for a large truck, and is this worth looking into? For what it's worth, this is not at all a commuter vehicle.

4. Setup / tear down: The van's setup time is zero. Park the van, grab beer, turn on stove / heater / lights / whatever. People are talking about 5 minute setup times with their FWCs. Really, five minutes? For weekend warriors, perhaps that's ok, but we stay out for weeks at a time. I think a long setup would really get old. The flatbed should help, since we won't have to set up our bed - is it really still 5 minutes?

5. Outside latches on the camper roof: My wife is petite - there is no way she will be able to reach the roof latches without a ladder. I think we'll have to haul around a ladder for the latches, AND some kind of dog friendly step contraption to get in and out of the camper. Any super clever ideas (latch extensions)? This is probably where a lot of the setup time comes from.

6. Bikes: I know this depends on the actual truck flatbed, but what are the chances of using a rear hitch mounted bike rack? I'm wondering, with the camper radius kinda sticking out, whether the bikes will fit on a hitch style tray rack. Anyone have pictures? Other solutions (not front hitch)?

7. Soft side questions: The van, since it has hard sides, is super snug and warm, even in really cold weather or really high wind. How loud / cold / precarious feeling is sleeping in the FWC when the weather is horrible? Is it reasonable to use this thing in the winter with the heater cranking, or can you simply not keep the space warm when its 0 degrees outside?

Thanks for reading this far - I appreciate all your input.
-adam

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[munchmeister]

Can't answer these as I am a new FWC Raven shell owner, small by the flatbed standards. Color me green with envy. Those flatbeds are nice, especially that dinette. But as for popping up the roof, it takes no time at all, just some oomph. If you have the gas struts, I've read they help quite a bit. The latches work very easily and other threads discuss some kind of music speaker elevator crank that folks use inside to raise the popup. Basically a couple of plastic poles with a crank/gears in the middle. I don't know anything about those, just that somewhere there is a thread about them.

Ladder: I'm shopping for one of the collapsible ladders. The latches work very easily once you can reach them. You need a stool and you might kill two birds by buying a step stool and use that for getting in and out of the camper, as well as reaching the latches, but I know things are high on the flatbed. A step stool might be an issue for your dogs. These ladders seem to stow pretty small. I'm evaluating online now. Amazon has 'em: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JY9QAPQ/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I20Y7WLO9NOCJM&colid=1AAGUZ9J1Y84C So does Home Depot, Lowes, Tractor Supply but all seem to order them in my neck of the woods. YMMV.

As for dogs, I have two small chihuahua/rat terrier rescues, one has a bad hip, can't jump very high so I plan on building a simple ramp out of plywood, fold in the middle, old carpet stapled on one side for grip. Fold it and stow in the camper.

Bikes: challenging for the flatbed. You could have them mount some front wheel quick release mounts on the back of the truck at a point where they would ride well. Just an idea.

Gas mileage: My Ford F-150, 5.4 Triton dropped from 16 to 14 with VERY conservative driving, 63 MPH average according to my GPS. I've always had a very, very light foot when driving but that comes from being a 100 mile per day commuter for ~25 years.

Hope this helps. Probably many other replies to come regarding your other questions.

 

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

We used a high top Dodge camper van for years and traveled Newfoundland to Mexico......there is absolutely no better way to go if you use and enjoy the attributes you have described.

Stick with it.

David Graves

 

[gaylon]

Let's see what I can do to help answer a few of these. I have a traditional hawk, in a 2016 Tundra TRD Pro.

1. Condensation: How often, if ever, does the pop-up canvas get soggy from condensation? I read a post somewhere about a guy that wipes up moisture in the morning from all the canvas surfaces, AND under his MATTRESS. Is that really a thing? Does the insulation layer / winter package help? When it is very cold, with two large dogs and my wife and I, there will be condensation. I have never had any under the mattress, but there is some on the roof. I have the winter / thermal pack and I think this helps, but when you exhale you put out a lot of water and if the walls are cold - it is going to collect. I am surprised you have never noticed any in the van.

2. Specific flatbed question: How annoying is it to get in and out of a flatbed? The scissor steps seem like they take up a lot of space (first step is far from the side of the truck), but my dog can't use a ladder. Is the entrance / exit as annoying as I imagine? Is there some magic solution I'm not thinking of? I have looked at a number of flat beds and I find the side entrance to be quite reasonable, but it is high. You will need something. Scissor steps do seem the easiest, i never noticed a large amount of space between the first step and the camper... On my traditional hawk, I use little giant step stool. The dogs go up it no problem.

3. Fuel economy: The Promaster gets 17-18 mpg cruising around the CO mountains. With a Ram 2500 or F-250, plus flatbed camper, am I going to get 10 mph? Any real world numbers out there? Anyone have experience with a chip/programmer for a large truck, and is this worth looking into? For what it's worth, this is not at all a commuter vehicle. All I can say on this is that my Tundra gets 13.5 without the camper and about 11.5 with.

4. Setup / tear down: The van's setup time is zero. Park the van, grab beer, turn on stove / heater / lights / whatever. People are talking about 5 minute setup times with their FWCs. Really, five minutes? For weekend warriors, perhaps that's ok, but we stay out for weeks at a time. I think a long setup would really get old. The flatbed should help, since we won't have to set up our bed - is it really still 5 minutes? It takes a couple minutes to pop the top - not five but more than one. Other than that, how much set up depends on how you store stuff while on the road. We take a couple minutes to unload an action packer (usually carrying firewood) and then a couple to set up the inside. If we were on only highway it would be less of a concern, but we always end up off road and we set up to handle a high amount of angular movement.

5. Outside latches on the camper roof: My wife is petite - there is no way she will be able to reach the roof latches without a ladder. I think we'll have to haul around a ladder for the latches, AND some kind of dog friendly step contraption to get in and out of the camper. Any super clever ideas (latch extensions)? This is probably where a lot of the setup time comes from. At 5'9", I can reach all latches just fine. If I was shorter, I could stand in the doorways of the truck to get the side and front ones and on the rear bumper to get the rear ones.

6. Bikes: I know this depends on the actual truck flatbed, but what are the chances of using a rear hitch mounted bike rack? I'm wondering, with the camper radius kinda sticking out, whether the bikes will fit on a hitch style tray rack. Anyone have pictures? Other solutions (not front hitch)? I have seen bike racks on the back of flatbed campers, both hitch mounted and mounted using the jack mounts (running a frame work of some sort across the back of the camper).

7. Soft side questions: The van, since it has hard sides, is super snug and warm, even in really cold weather or really high wind. How loud / cold / precarious feeling is sleeping in the FWC when the weather is horrible? Is it reasonable to use this thing in the winter with the heater cranking, or can you simply not keep the space warm when its 0 degrees outside? I love sleeping in the camper in bad weather - the rain sounds awesome on the roof and there is zero chance the top will collapse.

Good luck!

 

[smlobx]

A couple of comments in no particular order...

If you like the van life have you considered a Mercedes van. They are available with 4WD.
The condensation issue may be due to the smaller volume of a truck camper. The set up time is not 5 minutes. The biggest difference I would think in going from a van to a camper is the inability to get to the living quarters without going outside. For us this was a big issue but ultimately went with a truck camper anyway in order to be able to get more off-road.
If you do go the truck camper and your finances allow it get a diesel. I get 15-16 mpg with the camper on.

What ever you do enjoy the ride!

 

[Durango1]

Comments in CAPS

New user, first time poster.

I'm very close to purchasing a Hawk Flatbed, but have some hesitations. I'm hoping other FWC owners can confirm or allay my fears. Our current rig is a Ram Promaster campervan - its just about perfect, except for the lack of four wheel drive and no dinette (we both work on the road, so having a table for laptops will be a huge improvement).

Here are the reasons I've not yet pulled the trigger (there are a bunch - I've tried to provide some detail as to why I care).

1. Condensation: How often, if ever, does the pop-up canvas get soggy from condensation? I read a post somewhere about a guy that wipes up moisture in the morning from all the canvas surfaces, AND under his MATTRESS. Is that really a thing? Does the insulation layer / winter package help? AT LEAST HERE IN THE FAIRLY DRY SOUTHWEST NOT A HUGE ISSUE. ON COLD MORNINGS WE DO WIPE DOWN WHERE THE (COLDER) ROOF STRUTS. THE LINER HELPS... A BIT.

2. Specific flatbed question: How annoying is it to get in and out of a flatbed? The scissor steps seem like they take up a lot of space (first step is far from the side of the truck), but my dog can't use a ladder. Is the entrance / exit as annoying as I imagine? Is there some magic solution I'm not thinking of? WE DIDN'T GO WITH THE SCISSOR STEPS ON THE FB. I FIND THEM ANNOYING TO PUT ON AND OFF. BUT USING A MODIFIED STEP LADDER IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR US NOT-SO-AGILE 60 YEAR OLDS.

3. Fuel economy: The Promaster gets 17-18 mpg cruising around the CO mountains. With a Ram 2500 or F-250, plus flatbed camper, am I going to get 10 mph? Any real world numbers out there? Anyone have experience with a chip/programmer for a large truck, and is this worth looking into? For what it's worth, this is not at all a commuter vehicle. MY 2012 2500 RAM WITH THE HEMI GETS 13-14 ON THE HIGHWAY.

4. Setup / tear down: The van's setup time is zero. Park the van, grab beer, turn on stove / heater / lights / whatever. People are talking about 5 minute setup times with their FWCs. Really, five minutes? For weekend warriors, perhaps that's ok, but we stay out for weeks at a time. I think a long setup would really get old. The flatbed should help, since we won't have to set up our bed - is it really still 5 minutes? HAVEN'T TIMED IT BUT REALLY FAST. THE STRUTS HELP.

5. Outside latches on the camper roof: My wife is petite - there is no way she will be able to reach the roof latches without a ladder. I think we'll have to haul around a ladder for the latches, AND some kind of dog friendly step contraption to get in and out of the camper. Any super clever ideas (latch extensions)? This is probably where a lot of the setup time comes from. WE USE A L-SHAPED HOOK EXTENSION FROM A BBQ GRILL. SIOUX DOES THE FRONT HINGES FROM THE CAB. EASY.

6. Bikes: I know this depends on the actual truck flatbed, but what are the chances of using a rear hitch mounted bike rack? I'm wondering, with the camper radius kinda sticking out, whether the bikes will fit on a hitch style tray rack. Anyone have pictures? Other solutions (not front hitch)? WITH AN EXTENDER YOU COULD DO IT.

7. Soft side questions: The van, since it has hard sides, is super snug and warm, even in really cold weather or really high wind. How loud / cold / precarious feeling is sleeping in the FWC when the weather is horrible? Is it reasonable to use this thing in the winter with the heater cranking, or can you simply not keep the space warm when its 0 degrees outside? I LOSE THE CAMPING BUG AROUND 20 DEGREES. IF YOU ARE A SERIOUS 4 SEASON CAMPER I WOULD STAY WITH HARD SIDES.

Thanks for reading this far - I appreciate all your input.
-adam

--

All of that said, Adam, we love our FB Hawk. At the risk of ticking off a lot of slide in folks the perceived space and ergonomic improvements of a FB are huge. However, for my next build I'm wavering between a FB Grandby on a F-350 chassis cab (impeccable build quality) or the same with an ATC (much more customization) or a (wait for it) a Mercedes SWB 4WD Sprinter build!

Given what you are looking for and if you don't want to do serious 4WD I'd look at the Sprinter. My neighbor did a 4WD Sprinter build and has taken it into some pretty serious 4WD stuff here in SW Colorado.

Best wishes,
Steve

 

[dharte]

My 2 cents:
I have not had big issues with condensation (never any moisture under the mattress) in my Hawk, but I always keep windows cracked and a roof vent slightly open. My mom's VW Westfalia van (I call it the "will fail ya") has just as much condensation.
My truck is a diesel and my tuner makes a big difference in power and a slight improvement in mileage(1-2mpg's). If you tune your new rig be sure to monitor egt's. I don't use the extreme tunes, just the "tow safe" one. It really does make a big difference in the overall driving experience.
If I could do it again, I would have sold my truck and gone the flatbed route. Maybe some day.....

 

[ski3pin]

Howdy

We used a high top Dodge camper van for years and traveled Newfoundland to Mexico......there is absolutely no better way to go if you use and enjoy the attributes you have described.

Stick with it.

David Graves

"Our current rig is a Ram Promaster campervan - its just about perfect, except for the lack of four wheel drive and no dinette (we both work on the road, so having a table for laptops will be a huge improvement)."

All the issues you are concerned about can be dealt with, and we all do. You know the camper van life and, as you say, it's just about perfect. Stick with that and move over to something with 4x4 and a dinette table arrangement you need. We choose a 4x4 truck and small camper because it does a great job taking us to the places we explore. Having used it extensively in all kinds of conditions, we put up with it's idiosyncrasies.

 

[Espresso]

Stick with your van or move to a more classic style motorhome. It sounds like a better choice for your life/work style.

 

[W6USA]

Adam-
Most of your concerns have already been covered...

But to add to your condensation questions, the current "canvas" sides that you asked if it could get soggy...no. It's not canvas, it's a vinyl coated fabric and does not soak up any moisture. You would just wipe off any moisture quickly with a towel and it's then bone dry.

As mentioned, leaving some vents open helps. I've found in our dry air here in the southwest, there is no issue with condensation...but go to a humid area and it happens. So, condensation depends on several factors and may not happen at all.

If you are considering a late-model diesel truck, they get better fuel mileage than 5-year old or older models. There are many issues with the newer diesels of tuners/programmers causing check engine lights and other issues. The EPA was/is really cracking down on companies offering such tuners for the late model trucks due to emissions violations.

 

[tlilienfield]

I went through many of the same questions and decided to go with the flatbed Hawk (will be installed 6/21) over a van. I too am only 5 feet tall and opening the latches is one of my concerns. But in the end - I figured most of the time my much taller boyfriend will be with me and I figured having to carry a stool when I'm by myself was worth it for not having to deal with road clearance issues. Having 4 wheel drive and good clearance was a top priority for me. I decided against the sprinter because one it was even higher priced and two I've read that the cost of ownership is quite high. I don't have an authorized mercedes dealer for repairs anyone close to where I live so so that was an issue too. You can convert Ford and other RWD vans to 4wd, but that too is a big,costly project and I didn't like how they drove as much as the Ford trucks.

As I went back and forth between having everything all set up as soon as you park (in the van) versus the better clearance, more spaciousness, two beds and the ability to have my dinette set up without taking the main bed apart... those were some of the reasons I ultimately went the truck/flatbed route.

I live in Lake Tahoe and I do a lot of rock climbing. I"m often driving on forest service, rough roads which is why 4WD and clearance were top priorities. In the end the brief hassles of setting it up seemed better than dealing with road clearance issues. Also - take a look at Tiger trucks; very pricey but look fabulous.

 

[TwoPlusLu]

We were full-timing in a FWC Eagle (slide-in) shell and working from the road. Some of the reasons that you listed here are largely why we ended up selling the Eagle and switching to something hard-sided. In cold temperatures (think ~45F and below), we dealt with condensation every night - we didn't have a thermal pack and it just takes a wipe-down because the pop-up sides don't absorb any of the moisture, but it was still not something we enjoyed dealing with. With warmer temperatures, we had no issues with condensation.

For setup and tear down, it took us 45 minutes to an hour for each. The popping up itself is quick, but it's all the stuff we had to rearrange and set up afterwards that took time - making the bed (we couldn't fit any of our bedding with the top down), setting up our screenhouse/office space (like you, we didn't have a dinette in our FWC so we worked exclusively outside), and rearranging food, toiletries, work electronics, water, etc. because the storage in the camper was lacking in dedicated space for all these things. Not a big deal if we were staying stationary for awhile, but having our camper attached to the truck meant any time we needed to drive somewhere, we had to go through the rearrangement rodeo over and over. For us this got old fast. Also, the pop-up makes it difficult to overnight at Walmart/rest stops/etc, though we did do it a few times in ours. I know the flatbed has a lot more storage to it though, so setup and teardown may be quicker for you.

We ended up buying an Escape 5.0 fiberglass egg-style 5th wheel. It's the smallest 5th wheel on the market at 19' in length, and it is freaking awesome. It is so nice to get to a camp spot and be able to detach and drive around without our house in tow. We have a dedicated bed and a dedicated dinette/office, so no more building/taking down beds and even in the worst weather, we have comfortable living space to work indoors. And the camper only extends 15' past the rear bumper of the truck so we easily fit into two parking spots and haven't had any trouble navigating in tight places that most travel trailers wouldn't want to handle.

I'm not sure if a towable is even on the radar for you guys, but we understand the need to have an office space when working from the road and that was the #1 thing we were focused on when we decided to change rigs, so thought our decision may be worth of mention. Best of luck in your decision-making.

 

[tlilienfield]

Just came back from our first three day trip with our new flatbed hawk; hopefully this will answer some of your questions. Getting in an and out of the camper is easy. We did get the scissor steps which work out well. We kept them in our truck while traveling. Thanks to another Wander the West user- I added two steps to the rear storage box on the flatbed which helps for quick in and outs.

I too am petite - 5 foot tall and have no problem opening the latches on the sides or front of camper when standing in the truck. The back ones are more difficult. When I have our rear mounted bike rack on it's no problem as the bike rack makes a great foot hold. I can also get them by climbing on the trucks bumper - but I've been a rock climber for many years which helps a lot. Your wife could always carry a small step stool if she's not traveling with someone taller.

I couldn't be happier with our choice. I'm not sure how to post photos here; if I figure it out I'll add some.

 

[auser]

@tlilienfield, I'm curious to hear how your rig has treated you in the subsequent months. Still unbothered by the in/out height, stair setup and latch height? We decided to spend the summer in our van, but are back on this topic.

I saw another post from you in a thread about garage door height, and I think you said the flatbed was going on an F-150 - is that the truck you ended up using, and how has it worked out? Seems like the payload would be close?

-adam

 

[tlilienfield]

Hi Adam Although we corresponded privately i thought I would also answer your questions from above and our emails here for anyone else looking into a flatbed hawk.

We are loving the flatbed/ pop up camper. We just came back from a three week trip Mt biking and climbing near Zion and Moab and couldn't be happier with it. We love how spacious it feels.

Only real negative is make sure the flatbed builder is good with making the gas easy to fill. Our guy in Oroville, CA was fantastic and tested it before we got it. He wasn't happy and made some changes; we really haven't had trouble with it filling too slowly. We do have to estimate the gallons and then pump slowly at the end or it spurts out gas when it's full.

Only other negative is we carry mountain bikes on the back and on rough, 4 wheel drive roads one of our handlebars bumps the back of the camper and has made a small dent. We added a foam cushion to the handlebar which seems to help a lot.

We have the scissor steps and like them. My 7 year old dog is still pretty agile and uses them pretty easily. He was super scared at first.

Popping the front and middle latches are super easy from the truck. The back ones are a bit of a pain - I'm a rock climber and it definitely helps. I can easily climb on our bike rack or bumper. I could also always bring a step ladder.

We have two small foldable steps on the flatbed near the rear tire (flatbed builder put them in) which are fantastic. For me and I'm only 5 feet, it makes it very easy to get in and out when we don't have the steps out. Quick in and outs groceries , getting into refrigerator etc. That was a tip from a fellow poster and can't imagine not having them.

We haven't had super high winds yet. Some moderate and all was fine. But not really tested.

Ground level to entrance approx 3 feet. I did get a 2017 F-150. I'm probably very close to payload. I put on E rated tires right away and air bags and it drives great. We've taken it on a few very rough roads and it's done great. No complaints on how the truck handles with the flatbed. We don't carry a lot of extra stuff / weight We don't have anything on the roof except two light weight - flexible 100 W solar panels which we are very happy with.

I love the cassette toilet for nights. So luxurious for me and makes a nice seat. We've camped in the low 30's and the furnace is fantastic for quickly heating things up. We haven't used it much but we love it. We got the outside shower which works well. We've used that when it's hot and we're back before it's been dark / cold out and love it. We've taken sponge baths inside when the temps made me hesitate to shower outside. Personally - I didn't like how the inside shower set up and the possible condensation issues. I also love the storage we gained by not having the inside shower.

We couldn't be happier with our choice; very happy we went with the flatbed camper for the extra room. We don't need to use the truck for other uses; if you did a slide in camper would work better. We also had four storage boxes built into the flatbed; very useful for tools, hoses, shoes etc.

​Good luck with your decision!

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auser

 

[Beach]

I might be a little late to the party but will chime in anyways. Originally mentioned; no front hitch mount for the bikes. I have a ranch hand grill guard on a F250/Hawk and built a bike rack that mounts to it. Bought a decent rack online for about 35 bucks and and couple ubolts from the hardware store, a little hack saw work and couple pieces of aluminum later and it works very well. Arms drop down when not in use so it stays on full time. I had a rear mount bike set up first and always hated how far the bikes road behind the truck so the camper door remained usable. One of the biggest pluses to mounting bikes in the front was apparent the first rainy day dirt road we traveled, almost no mud and road grime on the bikes. Having had a van camper years ago, I would have to second what's already been mentioned. I don't think your going to gain a lot(except 4X4) by moving to a FWC.