Question for Canadian FWC owners

[Mike from Canada]

Hi folks, quick or maybe long question.
We are going to be ordering a camper for our truck and live in Canada.

It is far easier for us to get to Montana or other Northern states than deal with a dealer in BC or Ontario.

FWC tells us there is a "Canadian Package" to accommodate our "harsh winters" and "Mandatory modifications to the propane system" both of which are required according to them. It would seem to me our winters are no harsher than those of Northern States. Is this a cash grab by the Canadian FWC dealer or legit?
Thanks!

 

[Kali]

I'm not Canadian, but I thought Canada had a slightly different spec of Propane systems. Call FWC direct. Pete or Stan will answer that question legitimately.

 

[Vic Harder]

Seems both Ontario and BC have regulations that apply to RV's with on board propane tanks, and a requirement for these reg's to be upheld whenever the unit changes hands.
https://www.technicalsafetybc.ca/news/safety-wheels-keeping-rv-gas-systems-compliant
https://fuelslc.com/2016/02/inspection-of-propane-systems-on-recreational-vehicles/
http://mvsabc.com/v1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/blt-propanesafe-fnl.pdf

I bought mine used in UTAH and had no issues at the border when bringing it in.

 

[sportsman]

we were living in Nort Vancouver, and bought a used fleet in WA. We had no issues with the propane bringing it back into BC. We had also looked into the "Canadian Package" requirements when doing research, so far as I remember it was essentially the arctic pak. We had the Arctic Pak in the Fleet, and when we upsized from Fleet to a New Hawk shell, we also included the arctic pak (we now live in Oakland). We do a lot of camping in the snow for ski season, and camping in the warmth for the rest of the year's activities. Arctic pak is great for cold, and also for keeping it 'cooler' during the summers.

 

[klahanie]

Don't know myself. There is a member on here who was pretty high on the Vancouver dealer, hopefully that member will be along shortly because I bet he'll know.

If you are planing on insuring the camper a CDN propane system certification might be desirable if indeed it is part of the package and your insurer cares.

 

[Mike from Canada]

Thanks everyone. We are likely going to go with the Canadian dealer, just wondering if there was a reason for the added thousand or so dollars over above buying it in the US. Insurance is a big deal for us especially given the replacement cost!

 

[Old Crow]

Johnycanuck-

Your post reminded me I've seen more details on the Canadian package somewhere.....

Found it. It appears the Canadian package includes upgraded jack brackets, propane mods, upgraded latches/gutters, and dealer prep.

The jack brackets are included standard on the Raven (in the US) and aluminum ones are a $150 upgrade. I assume the Canadian package specifies the aluminum brackets. If you're convinced you don't need them, fine. But if you do, you'd need to add the option to the US price to compare apples to apples.

I'd love to know more detail on the propane system changes. My first thought was it just means the tanks have to have Transport Canada markings and perhaps FWC no longer provides those for US customers. (I say 'no longer' because my 2001 tank has both sets of markings. And I saw a post here on WtW where a member had been refused a refill in Canada for lack of Transport Canada tank markings). But there may be more to it than that. There may also be a requirement for an inspection of the entire propane system by a trained and certified tech who then issues the decal and paperwork indicating the system (not just the tank) meets Canadian safety standards.

The non or low-rusting latches are a surprise and I don't even know what the gutters would be.

 

[arg]

just collecting information (and I also have spoken with the Canadian distributor);

Canadian modification package (= $500 USD)
- bracket upgrade for the connection of the camper to the jacks (reason - corrosion)
- upgrade of the latches (reason- corrosion)
- propane plumbing upgrade inside the camper (reason - Canada requirement
- I am not sure if the gutters are now standard on all new FWC, but that is because of the rain-forest called the PNW, or in local jargon, the wet coast

Buy local - get to speak with the rep, get advice (this alone could save $)
Buy distant - possibly save $, but factor in time, fuel, hotel, and taxes in state you purchase the unit in, plus taxes at border

And to be clear, I am a reader of this site as I am intending to settle on a camper and a pick-up truck that will serve my needs, and then purchase.

 

[Bill D]

The propane line runs on Canadian manufactured models are run outside the body of the camper in the case that a line ruptures it vents to atmosphere. The tanks should also have TC designation (Transport Canada) as opposed to DOT tanks in the US.

I believe there is also an issue with Canadians purchasing from US FWC dealers as it obviously effects the Canadian distribution network.

I believe you also have an issue with warranty, if the dealer does not do the install on your camper.

So to answer your question... is it just a cash grab? No.

 

[klahanie]

Come to think of it an RV dealer/repair place could possibly make the camper compliant and certify. Importing you may only be required to pay gst or hst. I haven't heard of anyone have a problem bringing a FWC over (we didn't but that was long ago).

Agree with generally buying local if possible (not the case for the OP) but know that idea doesn't always pan out. For eg I'm sure others have wanted to buy a vehicle from a local car dealer only to have the intended plan not work out for one reason or other. If I can't seem to interest a local dealer in showing me a product then I'm prob not going to be making that easy 20, 30 min drive for purchase. Rather, I'd be going to the states, buying something else or simply doing without.

as always ymmv

 

[Mike from Canada]

Thanks everyone, this is an awesome forum. We will be ordering through the Vancouver dealer.

On a side note with the whole buy local thing. I completely support that but in this case purchasing from Montana or North Dakota would be more local than Canada given the distances travelled and the time we've spent in each location!

 

[thewwkayaker]

I bought used and if I bought new I'm not sure what I'd do. The propane tank itself is fine - Transport Canada and DOT worked together on this to make them interchangable. With a propane leak detection system onboard this is enough for me to feel safe. The entire coast is wet so I feel if it work(ed) on the coast just south of me it's fine a few degrees higher. You will pay tax where ever you buy it (I paid at the border on crossing). There are very few used available in Canada - so that wasn't much of an option. CDC - used you don't pay it so that helps (there is no duty on USA made goods). I do know that in terms of parts you pay way more in Canada. I bought the installation kit in Seattle at $150US vs $400CAN. I know our dollar is way down but not THAT much. As for picking it up - just turned that into a trip. The way down we had to use a tent, but I backpack, winter camp with ski touring, etc so that wasn't a biggy. Oh at the border they only cared about tax collecion - they didn't even look at the camper. It doesn't touch the ground so Ministry of Transportation doesn't care about it.

Only issue I've heard is that you pay tax on entire amount paid, so you pay tax on the US tax you paid. Luckily I picked ours up in OR which has no sales tax.

 

[trikebubble]

We ordered our Hawk from Gary (the Canadian dealer) last fall and received our camper in January. I cannot recall all the specifics of the Canadian package, but I recall some changes were at the request of Gary based on his insight and experiences in our Canadian environment. I can say that dealing with Gary was an amazing and comforting experience from start to end. On our first visit my Wife and I spent 3 hours chatting with Gary, mainly about where we see our adventures taking us. We were invited into his home and sat at his kitchen table talking with him and his wife. Gary listened to what we thought we wanted in the way of options, and offered his opinions (based on his real world experiences here in Canada) which led us to change our minds on a few options. At the end of the whole experience, it's my belief that if Gary recommended certain changes or additions to our Canadian campers, then that is more than good enough for me.

 

[Mike from Canada]

Thanks for all of the input! We will be ordering through the Canadian distrubter once we figure out what we want. This forum is a wealth of knowledge!

 

[Bill D]

The propane tank itself is fine - Transport Canada and DOT worked together on this to make them interchangeable.

Do you have information to back up this statement.

I contacted Transport Canada when an attendant refused to fill my DOT certified tank in Canada because it did not have TC (Transport Canada) designation on the tank.
I also enquired about recertification and that is not an option either.

 

[N'kwala]

I find much of this discussion puzzling. I bought a second-hand (third?) ATC/FWC hybrid some years back in the US. I've brought it home to BC, filled the propane tank at least three times up here with no problems at all. Had to have the tank recertified last fall--again no problems in Victoria. Frankly, with all due respect, I find the argument for a Canadian package a bit over the top--I've camped comfortably up here for a really wet week on Vancouver Island, and quite chilly weather in Banff just last week. (Quite chilly--got a bit above freezing during the days, froze hard at night.) No problems. No problems with meeting Canadian standards when I declared it at the border, either.

I guess my experience is much like that of the wwkayaker...

 

[thewwkayaker]

CSA B340 specifies the selection and use requirements for cylinder and tube specifications that are authorised for use in Canada by Subsection 5.10(2) of the TDG Regulations. This includes cylinders and tubes that have been in use in Canada for many years and that belong to one of the following groups of specifications:

• Cylinders and tubes that have been manufactured in accordance with CSA B339. These cylinders and tubes are commonly referred to as “TC specification” cylinders and tubes because the prefix marked before the specification designation is “TC”.
• Cylinders and tubes that have been manufactured in accordance with the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Hazardous Materials Regulations entitled Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations of the United States(49 CFR). These cylinders and tubes are commonly referred to as “DOT specification” cylinders and tubes because the prefix marked before the specification designation is “DOT”.

 

[thewwkayaker]

Mine is currently been recert for another 10 years - DOT designation on tank (FWC from OR).

It makes sense - otherwise we'd have to allow transportation of dangerous goods thru Canada without meeting Canadian Safety OR not allow US citizens to use their propane cylinders when camping here in Canada (and likewise vise-versa).

 

[thewwkayaker]

I only question the CDC cost - there is no brokerage fees required if you buy it in the US and bring it back, no duty (NAFTA still stands for now at least but taxes are required as always (paid at the border). Also the Canadian package makes little sense - we have as much rain/moisture as WA coastal areas in Vancouver so why would FWC design something that doesn't do well in certain states? Propane - I already found we accept DOT so that cost they claim makes no sense, dealer prep?? Don't the dealers in the states do the same thing? Do they charge for it? I have no idea as I didn't buy new of course - anyone want to chime in - what did your dealer charge beyond your unit cost and taxes? Personally I think it comes down to volume of sales - we don't buy as many so price needs to be higher.

I think if I was to buy new I'd drive down to OR, buy and install there, and spend a week or so enjoying OR - I love the all of the coast. I'd choose OR to avoid paying taxes on taxes at the border and not having to deal with getting my US sales tax back (if I'd gone to say WA). But that's me - I travel for fun nearly every week so a trip to buy a camper (as I did for my used one) is just an excuse for fun - not a pain.

 

[trikebubble]

I've been trying to recall the specifics of the mandatory Canadian package. I know that our Canadian models come standard with the aluminum jack brackets. I have the large 3-way fridge and it comes standard with the fan, I don't know if that is also standard in the US. I had though their were other items, but cannot seem to recall.