Question for Hallmark Owners

smlobx

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Hi!
I recently discovered Hallmark campers and am considering purchasing one in the next year or so (I'm also looking at FWC).
I anticipate putting the camper on my F-350 CC SRW with an 8 ft bed.
I think that the Everest (with the commode) is the one that most closely fits our needs and my question to your guys is what material did you have your walls made with? Wood, aluminum or coosa?
I really like the idea of coosa but the price is a little hard to swallow.

Also, has anyone opted for the North/South bed configuration? How much was this option?

Is there any thing else you'd like to tell a perspective owner?

We're in Virginia so there aren't any too close to us.
Thanks!
 
The Bushman said:
I am the owner of a 1998 Hallmark Cuchara (the biggest one they made at that time) All the composite panels used for the main structure of the camper have rotted. When I bought the camper I was assured by the owner of Hallmark and his sales person that their camper was built to the highest standards in the RV industry. This has most certainly not turned out to be true. My first major structural failure occurred with the camper was about 7 years old. Water had seeped into the composite panel and had rotted the area where the bed/cabover section is located... this is the weakest part of the camper. The entire composite sidewall cracked. I was in New Mexico at the time and I immediately drove up to the Hallmark factory in Colorado. The first reaction of Bill Ward, Hallmark's owner was to say that I must have crashed the camper. But further investigation proved, even to them, that the camper sidewall cracked because the wood in the composite panel rotted. Since then, over the years, ALL the composite panels used to build that main structure of the camper have rotted. I am now forced to buy a new camper. If the camper had been properly built, I would have the option to fix, renovate and upgrade the original... as would be the case with many other kinds of RV's including Airstream, Winnabego, Itasca, Camplite, etcetera. In the final analysis, the Hallmark I bought, and it was NOT cheap, was NOT well built. I wish that I had purchased an Alaskan camper, the ORIGINAL pop top truck camper. You can find 1960's vintage Alaskan Campers for sale STILL in good condition.

I am the owner of a 1998 Hallmark Cuchara (the biggest one they made at that time) All the composite panels used for the main structure of the camper have rotted. When I bought the camper I was assured by the owner of Hallmark and his sales person that their camper was built to the highest standards in the RV industry. This has most certainly not turned out to be true. My first major structural failure occurred with the camper was about 7 years old. Water had seeped into the composite panel and had rotted the area where the bed/cabover section is located... this is the weakest part of the camper. The entire composite sidewall cracked. I was in New Mexico at the time and I immediately drove up to the Hallmark factory in Colorado. The first reaction of Bill Ward, Hallmark's owner was to say that I must have crashed the camper. But further investigation proved, even to them, that the camper sidewall cracked because the wood in the composite panel rotted. Since then, over the years, ALL the composite panels used to build that main structure of the camper have rotted. I am now forced to buy a new camper. If the camper had been properly built, I would have the option to fix, renovate and upgrade the original... as would be the case with many other kinds of RV's including Airstream, Winnabego, Itasca, Camplite, etcetera. In the final analysis, the Hallmark I bought, and it was NOT cheap, was NOT well built. I wish that I had purchased an Alaskan camper, the ORIGINAL pop top truck camper. You can find 1960's vintage Alaskan Campers for sale STILL in good condition.
 

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You won't go wrong by going with a Hallmark. Where others may tell you they are expensive, a lot of those extra costs include what other brands consider options. I like to tinker and add/change things and I'm having a hard time justifying doing very much to ours so far. I'm sure over time I'll come up with things but so far it's been pretty close to the mark as far as being set up. Of course we've not nearly put enough nights into it yet.

We have the N/S configuration and it works well for us. There's a lot of storage under it and also at the nose. The minor drawback is that you can't access while someone is sleeping and/or the top is down. You just need to plan around a little, minor problem.

We went with the standard wood interior framing. Because of the exterior construction they use, I didn't feel any concern about moisture getting to a wood based system, and we live in the PNW (of course with the changes in climate, we're looking like it's going to be much dryer in the future). I also felt the wood would flex and give better over time than rigid welds. The coosa may provide environmental appeal being a composite, for the cost not sure what the advantage really is.

We have a S/B Super cab and went with the K2. It's a little shorter than the Everest, but we have the exterior storage boxes which extend out just as far. The cab-over just barely extends past the windshield but you can't see it from the inside, have no issues with wind buffeting (even at 85+ - my wife driving not me :oops:)

What ever you decide on, with the main manufacturers available these days I don't think you can go wrong. Just do your homework and have a good understanding of what you want/need. Half the fun is in the planning and learning.

1R4A4801 by John Russell, on Flickr
 
With all due respect Mr. / Ms "Bad Habit" it took some years for my Hallmark to fall apart. But the actual TRUTH is that ALL the composite panels that make up the structure of the camper HAVE rotted. My Hallmark very well might have held up well for light intermittent use in dry climate zones. But my Hallmark did NOT HOLD UP FOR SERIOUS EXPEDITION USE.
 
Well, there's no doubt that you have been having to deal with a lot of issues. The unfortunate thing about rot is that by the time it's found, it usually has done a lot of damage. And once that is started it keeps getting worse. While there are many Hallmarks still in fine condition from that era, it's impossible to compare as every camper is used differently and subjected to different environments. Were you just the unlucky one to get one with a problem that compounded, or was it because of a design flaw. I didn't know they used composite panels back in '98. Are the structural or are they just the exterior covering over a wood frame?
 
First of all thanks for the replys so far.

Unless I'm mistaken Hallmark is using a different composite manufacturing process than they did 17 years ago. I think they started the new process about 5 or so years ago. Am I right??
 
smlobx said:
Hi!
I recently discovered Hallmark campers and am considering purchasing one in the next year or so (I'm also looking at FWC).
I anticipate putting the camper on my F-350 CC SRW with an 8 ft bed.
I think that the Everest (with the commode) is the one that most closely fits our needs and my question to your guys is what material did you have your walls made with? Wood, aluminum or coosa?
I really like the idea of coosa but the price is a little hard to swallow.

Also, has anyone opted for the North/South bed configuration? How much was this option?

Is there any thing else you'd like to tell a perspective owner?

We're in Virginia so there aren't any too close to us.
Thanks!
We went with the N-S bed (aka Extended Cabover, $2000) and Coosa interior ($1800). The N-S sleeping was a must for us, much more convenient than E-W and adds some storage; FWC did not offer it. Strong, light and waterproof Coosa seemed like a worthwhile investment because we live in the snow zone and park outside. Combined with the one-piece roof and structural skin, it's about as tight as possible for a pop-up. Early on we got part of the interior wet by overfilling the gray tank (the gauge is poorly calibrated) but there was no damage I could find.

Our rig has been on some very rough roads and appears solid structurally. The interior design is not to marine standards so contents such as shelves and drawers may fly around on bad roads; we are slowly fixing that. Hallmark has been making campers for many decades and has changed with the times to offer the latest components and materials. They are not perfect but run a clean, organized shop. After looking at many different truck campers, I could not find any other manufacturers with Hallmark's combination of features and high quality.
 
smlobx said:
First of all thanks for the replys so far.

Unless I'm mistaken Hallmark is using a different composite manufacturing process than they did 17 years ago. I think they started the new process about 5 or so years ago. Am I right??
Another discussion said they changed the shell manufacturing in 2008. Hallmark told me that they use the same source as EarthRoamer, a high-end expedition vehicle manufacturer. I examined an EarthRoamer and an XPCamper (they make their own shells) and would say there are similarities but differences, too.
 
snuffy said:
I have been thinking about maybe some day getting a Hallmark but this has changed my mind
You can find lemons and disgruntled owners with any brand. I have no doubt that The Bushman experienced problems that would sour him on Hallmark. You have to decide for yourself if that indicates a current problem or something else.
 
Whether my 1998 Hallmark is a “lemon” more than the other campers manfulctured that year, I can not say. What I do know is that ALL, ALL of the composite panels making up the main structure of the camper rotted. The frount fiberglass nose (made by the some fiberglass shop that makes parts for Earth Roamer) is fine. The back figerglass-aluminium door is fine. But all the walls made at Hallmark did rot. In 1998 Hallmark used a composite construction using fiberglass, foam, and wood veneer. Their mistake was to use the wood veneer. Water seeps in, the wood rots and the camper fell apart. The last time I was at the Hallmark factory, about 6 years ago, they had changed their constuction but the side and back of the camper still was made with a wood-balsa core. The first major structural falure, due to rot, occured when my Hallmark was only 6 or seven years old. The "solid" side of hte camper cracked completely after hitting a big bump. I took the camper back to the Hallmark factory and their first response was to say that I had crashed the camper. That was false. Upon closer examination it became clear that the side cracked becasue the wood in the composite wall was rotten. Sunce that time, over the years, the entire camper has rotted. The roof snk in where the Hallmark factory mounted air conditoner was located causing an ongoing roof leak and eventually caused the roof to rot, too.

My advice to any and all perspective buyers (myself included as I am forced to buy a new camper now) is DO NOT simply belive the Hallmark or any other manufacture's sales pitch. Take the time to investigate for yourself. If the solid side walls and back of the Hallmark camper still contain wood, I would definatly NOT buy one. Over time water can and will seep in. Also, Hallmark is most definately NOT the only upper-end pop top truck camper manufacture. You also have OUTFITTER R.V. founded by former co-owner of Hallmark Bob Ward and his son Brian.

(http://www.outfittermfg.com)

They claim that their camper is NOT made with any wood and will never rot. As I say, The owner of Outfitter used to be the half-owner of Hallamrk. He should know as well as anyone how to build a good camper.

Then you have Alaskan campers, the ORIGNAL pop top truck camper, their factory located in Washington State. I have visited the Alaskan factory twice and was quite impressed with their quality.

( http://www.outfittermfg.com )

And then you have the amazing XP Camper, manufaturered in Grass Valley, California. There is no question whatsoever that the XP is the BEST built pop top camper by far. With a price tag of $80,000 for the full sized model, they are beyond the means for most of us, including myself. But, if I had the money I would buy one. (www.xpcamper.com)

As far as I konw that pretty much surveys all the "upper end" pop top truck campers available. You can buy a ful sized Palamino pop top on e-bay for around $7000, and for what it is, it is not a bad option for a beginner. They are cheap and they are cheaply made... but for the money, not total junk. they work too. My first pop top truck camper was a Sunlite. It worked fine for 6 years until I traded it for my Hallmark.

If I pay $30,000 for a new camper I want it to hold up for quite a wild. I do NOT want another camper that will have major structural falures during the first ten years. If Hallmark can convince me that their new ones are now bomb-proof I will even consider a new Hallmark. But you can be sure that I will not simply fall for their shimmering-tounged sales pitches. I did that once and was very disappointed when my Hallmark camper totally rotted.

I will be happy to answer any further questions.

index.php
 
The Bushman said:
Whether my 1998 Hallmark is a “lemon” more than the other campers manfulctured that year, I can not say...
That's truly upsetting and a good lesson to all. No guarantees with any of the brands. In your case I suspect that construction technique or inspection schedule is to blame.

We shopped the brands you mention plus FWC as well as Sportsmobile, Tiger and EarthRoamer. Advantages and disadvantages with each. We actually ordered an XPCamper V2 but canceled when the schedule repeatedly slipped and design problems surfaced. Among the second choices Hallmark rose to the top for the features, price and schedule we wanted. No wood in ours that I am aware of, although boats and planes have long been made of wood so it is not an inherent weakness. Hallmark explains the differences in wood, aluminum and Coosa.
 
I own a 2001 Hallmark Cuchara and live in the rainy Northwest. I have not experienced any wood rot. The camper has held up well traveling all over the western area of both U.S. and Mexico. I would not judge Hallmark just by one person's bad experience. I would suggest doing lots of research and talking to lots of people before making a decision. There are good and bad experiences with every camper out there. We have been very satisfied owners.

Besides being very durable, some of the things we like the most about our camper are the very functional design, which gives us so many options and makes camping a breeze. The one piece composite top never leaks and does not require maintenance. The top lifts and you are set up in about a minute. The insulated material in the pop up walls is well made and the screens and windows are simple to open. The lower bed can be extended to a queen which gives two people the option to spend the night without putting the top up which can occasionally be useful. There are many other things we like but those are the things that I probably like the most. There is really nothing that I don't like. The camper is engineered to make camping easy and enjoyable.

I hope you enjoy your search for a camper. Knowing what you want and finding it can be very rewarding.

Happy trails.
 
We just bought an 08 Hallmark Guanella after a lot of research. That's the year they switched to their current carbon fiber composite build. We're told it's absolutely bomb proof and I have not heard about spontaneous structural failure on any Hallmarks of the 08-present generation. The older ones had rubber or metal roofs that were known to fail; I'm not sure what the side walls or underside of the cabover were made of, or how they were integrated into the rest of the structure. We chose Hallmark because we need space and comfort (we're 2 adults and 2 young children), as well as something that will hold up under rigorous off-road use. Other brands such as Four Wheel Camper and All Terrain Camper make great strong/lightweight campers, but they're a bit more austere and none offer interior comfort or sleeping space to compete with Hallmark. When I called around and spoke with a lot of experts, including the folks who make FWC, ATC, Northstar and Hallmark, I did not find anybody with a bad thing to say about Hallmarks. Simply put, they're deserving of their top tier status.
Having said all that, it's clear that you have to go into this with eyes open from the start and every step along the way. We're going to do our best to make sure there's no structural problem with ours before driving off with it, and will also keep an eye out for any potential issues each year when we winterize and set up again for camping season.
I'll repeat some words of wisdom I've seen from time to time on web sites like this - people with bad experiences are more likely to post complaints than satisfied customers are to take the time to extol a good product. Thanks to Bad Habit and Bigfoot for posting their mostly very positive experiences, as well as some of their relatively minor (in the overall scheme of things) gripes.
 
I don't mean to give the impression I'm totally writing off your concerns, Bushman. It's clear that your problem is a bona fide nightmare, and if people like you don't share your experiences there's no way folks like us (looking to buy a new, or even more appropriately, a used camper) can go into our venture in a truly educated way. After losing a bit of sleep last night over our impending camper purchase in light of your post, I did some more searching online and came up with very little of concern, aside from this :oops::
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26972402/srt/pa/pging/1.cfm
Yikes! Seems like a similar rotton-to-the-core experience with a Hallmark. Worse yet, it's a newer vintage, though still pre-2008 (06 to be exact). Also, the camper was bought in a "dealer sale (as is)." Not clear what might have caused the extensive water damage, though the camper reportedly lived its first 5 years on the gulf coast so it likely sat out in very humid conditions and probably weathered some pretty severe storms.
Anyhow, we're a bit warier now of the potential for structural issues, despite the fact that we are probably dealing with an 08+ apple as opposed to an 07- orange (or in Bushman's case, a lemon), and we'll try our best to really inspect the camper well before signing over our hard-earned cash.

Oh, and BY THE WAY, it's probably worth mentioning the following piece of information: the seller of the camper we're scheduled to pick up on SEPT 4 mentioned in the spirit of "full disclosure" that he noticed about a 3/4 inch sag in the cabover portion, in a south to north direction (lower toward the front end). He didn't know what had caused it but he said he's absolutely sure that no damage has occurred to the camper, which he and his wife have owned since it was new. He seems like a very meticulous and honest guy, a retired woodworker, and the camper looks incredibly clean in all the photos. I spoke with both Matt and Bill at Hallmark, who said there is no way that there could be a structural failure in that area, since the entire thing is made of composite, both above and below the cabover. They said the only way the structure could fail there would be through a significant impact (i.e., major crash), and if that were to have occurred, there would be visible evidence of either a big crack or repair (apparently repairs to these composite panels can't he easily cosmetically disguised). While we've entered into a verbal agreement with the seller that we're committed to the purchase, he did say that if we find any evidence of structural problems with the camper he won't hold us to the deal. So our plan at this point is to meet up with him and his camper in Denver and swap our check for his camper on the condition that we don't find evidence of a structural problem.

So now I have a QUESTION: How exactly does one inspect for structural failure? Is it necessary to remove any interior or exterior surfaces? I doubt the current owner would tolerate us hacking into his camper's finish as part of a pre-purchase inspection. We trust the folks at Hallmark to do that inspection for us, but as educated buyers we feel like we need to know what would constitute an adequate inspection.
Another question: have any Hallmark owners noticed an apparent "sag" in the cabover part of the camper? The current owner said it's possible he just didn't notice it before, though he's inclined to think it wasn't there originally.
 
As to the sag, not sure how it could without some other noticeable deformation. The sides are 1 piece and structural and in order for the overhang to droop, you would think there would be some buckling and/or bulging of the sides. With the smooth gel coat I would think this would show up as surface cracking too.

For inspections, I don't know how far you could get into the interior to really see the structure, it would probably be pretty intrusive operation.

Look down the sides to see that there are no bulges, make sure things are square. Look for gaps where the panels meet under the overhang. Have a flashlight handy and pull drawers out (not easy sometimes with the drawer stops they have) and look at the structure of the cabinetry.

Don't read too much stuff on the internet and then worry about every little blemish :)
 
Hi Bad Habit,
I'm inclined to follow your advice. Will look for warpage/ deformation and seam integrity, peer into the back of drawer tracks, also do a mildew sniff check and (maybe when the owner's not looking) some more dynamic testing including swinging by my arms off the cabover, and loading the wife and kids (maybe the old dog, too) into the front end of the cabover to see how it holds up in wrasslin'/pillow fighting conditions. Knock on wood we'll be doing Colorado Jeep passes happily and successfully come Sept 5!
- Dave
 
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