Questions About Places to Avoid and Personal Safety

[joez3]

So far the worst thing that has happen to me was I had a gas can stolen from my camp site. This was at Stampede Res., I talked to several other campers and they had fishing equipment stolen on the same night. BTW this campground had a host, so much for them looking out for you. Keep an eye out for your own safety.

Some food for thought:
A few years ago I read an article on the safety of hiking the appalachian trial (I think it was in backpacker mag). What it came down to was they were able to find 12 murders that happen on the trail since mid 70s. They felt the trail was as safe or safer then the rest of the US. The reasoning behind this was that the trial is 2200 miles long, and if you were to draw a 2200 mile line anywhere in the US the murder rate would be higher then this section of the US.

 

[leadsled9]

I'm leaving right after Christmas to spend a month on the Arizona/Mexico border....archery hunting.

I do carry a handgun when archery hunting in that area as there is a lot of illegal activity going on down there.

There is a heavy Border Patrol presence in the area....and seeing them around just makes me feel safer.

I generally hunt solo but this year there will be friends joining me for a week or so during the hunt. I always feel better down there with more friends in camp.

The folks involved in illegal activity on the border generally try to avoid contact with anyone.

 

[Overland Hadley]

The folks involved in illegal activity on the border generally try to avoid contact with anyone.


This is also what I was told by a ranger in the border area.

 

[mtn-high]

I carry a gun-but I have had one all my life, was in the army and know how to use it-but some, especially city dwellers, don't understand guns-and without some education should probably should think about a dog or a baseball bat


No guns here. If yer >that< scared, you should stay home huddled and shaking in the closet where you belong.

Was just gonna suggest a baseball bat, smoke. I found that if you undo the curtain tie on the right rear passenger window..... the tie will fit nicely around a baseball bat that is stood up in the rear corner of the camper. Never had to think about using the bat we carry, and like most others, have never had a problem with another camper....mainly because we will pass on camping close to anyone else and we will move if we can if someone doesn't give us the same respect we would have given them regarding "distance".

Generally...when we drive up if we see beer/alcohol bottles on the table or in someone's hand (or GUNS)...we keep going. No alcohol = no problems. Folks bring up the meth heads, but the drunks that leave messes and disrespect the woods and other campers are far more prevelent out there than meth users. Talk about a nasty drug. Upon arrival to camp...without fail, I find I'm always picking up beer cans or broken beer bottles and usually leave with a sack full of "party" remnants as proof. Fun stuff!

Being aware of your surroundings is key to avoiding problems. If it doesn't feel right...it isn't right and it's time to go.

good luck out there, all...

mtn

 

[leadsled9]

If yer >that< scared, you should stay home huddled and shaking in the closet where you belong.


Choosing to carry a gun has nothing to do with being "huddled and shaking in the closet"...and there is certainly nothing to laugh about (lol). It has to do with being prepared and able to protect ones self and loved ones.

A firearm is not for everyone. If you don't want to take the responsiblilty to learn to carry and use a firearm safely then you are better off without one. In that case the baseball bat would indeed be the best option.

Where I travel and camp....there is no 911 response. I can't depend on someone else to be responsible for my security. It's all up to me and I choose to be prepared.

It's like having auto insurance. You carry it and hope you never need it. I don't want to be the one who brought a baseball bat to a gun fight. Lord hope it never comes to that.

 

[mtn-high]

I know the paranoid story you tell very well, leadsled...and many folks in this country obviously share your fear of intrusion/conflict.

Yet...as everyone here can/has attested...the boogeyman isn't likely to come visit while you are out and about camping.

Besides...and FWIW....I can't LEGALLY own a weapon because I am a registered "drug abuser"...aka..medical marijuana card holder. Most folks who go on and on about THEIR gun rights don't realize (or care!) that MMJ users can face 5 years in prison for every weapon in their home because it is illegal under current law to have a weapon and a marijuana grow in the same location or to have "drugs" in your system and possess a weapon....whether those drugs are legal or not.

As a result...I had to make a choice between the two. In the end, I like/need my pot grow more than I like/need a gun.

So I'm stuck with the bat to "protect" my home/my family/my grow/my camper and own no weapons whatsoever.

be safe, all

mtn

 

[lqhikers]

leadsled9,
agree with you 100% .
we never go anywhere with out our safety as our first priority.
in places where certain items are not allowed we always have bear spray,
or wasp spray as a back up.

Les,lqhikers

 

[rotti]

I know the paranoid story you tell very well, leadsled..

Huh?
I would say a very sensible story he tells.

 

[craig333]

No paranoia there. While the outdoors are generally safe, usually safer than the city, bad guys can and do visit the woods. Maybe I never should have started reading the stories of the California Dept of Fish and Game. You're certainly not being paranoid if you see signs of a marijuana grow and turn tail.

 

[mtn-high]

Study after study, statistic after statistic, event after event....your belief that you are "safer" with a gun onboard is false and exhibits far more insecurity than wisdom on the topic.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html

"Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher"


be "safe", all...

 

[ntsqd]

Is the author of that study going to lend a hand if/when I've misread a situation?

The one thing that my entry level Statistics class taught me was to not trust any statistic that I didn't make up myself.

"Situation awareness" is the operative phrase. If your gut is telling you one thing and your brain is telling something different, go with your gut. Very likely that your gut is agreeing with your dog if you have one with you.

I really wanted to show my wife China Garden Springs, but there were 4-5 guys there and after the strange conversation that we'd just had with a resident of Darwin I just wasn't going to go there, not solo. There's always another trip, if you pay attention.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Is the author of that study going to lend a hand if/when I've misread a situation?

The one thing that my entry level Statistics class taught me was to not trust any statistic that I didn't make up myself.

"Situation awareness" is the operative phrase. If your gut is telling you one thing and your brain is telling something different, go with your gut. Very likely that your gut is agreeing with your dog if you have one with you.

I really wanted to show my wife China Garden Springs, but there were 4-5 guys there and after the strange conversation that we'd just had with a resident of Darwin I just wasn't going to go there, not solo. There's always another trip, if you pay attention.


Yep, you got that right! Almost everyone who has commented on this thread, usually lists "situation(al) awareness" as a major safety factor in dealing with the world out there.---and whether or not they carry a gun, a dog, bear spay or a ball bat. Ask a any cop, a soldier, or anyone that has a job, or hobby that may include running into unplanned and possibly dangerous encounters, whether human or other! Being smart equates with being safe(er) and not being prepared can compound a potentially dangerous situation. If we all worried all the time about what could happen then we might as well stay in that closet and not enjoy the world and I for one plan to enjoy life as long as I can.

Smoke

 

[highz]

First, let me disclose that I own a pistol and a rifle for target shooting. I do not think I am knee-jerk anti-gun. However, I agree with mtn-high that if you carry a gun for self-defense against a human with a gun, you put yourself at higher risk.

Consider: If you have a holstered gun and an attacker has a gun already deployed, who has the advantage? If you try to unholster your gun, you become the prime target. A segment on 20/20 from a while ago concluded that unless you undergo regular military or police training, carrying a gun doesn't help. Here's the link.

Now, if an attacker has a knife or club, or you are attacked by a cougar, maybe your gun will be of use. I don't think this issue is black or white.

I don't know for sure, but suspect I'm more at risk of being accidentally shot by a hunter than by being attacked by a crazy in the woods.

 

[mtn-high]

It's doubtful that the author would lend you a hand, ntsd...neither will anyone else if you have a weapon in your hand.
In the end he will just add you to the statistic you so disbelieve of how much more likely you are to be killed with your own weapon than if you were unarmed.

And let's talk about this "defense" in legal terms. For anyone to legally possess a weapon in a motor vehicle (your truck/camper) in Cali and MOST other states it must be unloaded. If it is a handgun...which I assume most of you are carrying if you are looking for "protection" from the boogeyman, it must be unloaded and LOCKED away..in a safe...or in the trunk.

That is, if you care about "legality' and are a responsible gun owner....and I just KNOW all of you are because everyone who owns a gun is. Yup. Ask the families of the latest mass murders for proof.

Bottom line, I don't see how you can legally posssess AND defend yourself in a split-second decision. IMO....If you aren't legally possessing and your gun is simply inside your camper...loaded, unlocked/unsecured and ready for the boogeyman...you are putting MY safety at risk...and that is unacceptable.

be safe...

mtn

 

[ntsqd]

You missed my point and I never said whether I carried or not.

FWIW the law that you loosely quote only applies to public roads. Anything within BLM or NFS boundaries is not subject to that law.

A parked camper is legally a home, with all of the rights associated. The gray zone (for me anyway) is if that is still true when parked within the easement of a public highway.

Pulling the atrocity card is uncalled for.

In the hopes that this thread doesn't turn uglier, I'm done.

 

[bsharp007]

Most of my camping is in wilderness areas far from any roads along wild and scenic rivers. I have never once felt threatened in the least and I have been lucky enough to raft almost every major wilderness river in the west. In my circles the only people who bring guns in these situations are fairly new to the outdoors and river rafting in general.
There was a recent thread on one of the river boards about bringing hand guns into the Grand Canyon for "Cougers", the original poster was brand new to river rafting and camping in the wilderness. I will be running the Grand Canyon for the eighth time in Aug (21 days of camping) and I haven't even seen a mountain lion or had anything remotely close to a human confrontation on that or any river in ID, OR, NV, CA, CO, Alaska, ETC.....I also spend 30-40+ days camping out of my FWC and no problems thus far including my fourth trip to Baja in April.

Bear spray or Bear Bangers work great for bears. I doubt a hand gun is going to do much more then slow down a grizzly anyway. Most of us live in cities and at least statistically it is far more dangerous then where we typically camp. I realize that some will assert their gun rights while camping and of course it's is their right but if it makes things safer is a whole different thing IMHO.

 

[CD Noble]

Steelhead
I have had almost no problems when camping or working in wilderness area's until two years ago when photographing Quail in a very remote area 30 miles in from the nearest blacktop. i had found a year round running stream in the desert mountains in So. Calif. I was just breaking down my equipment and ready to head home when 3 men on motorcycles attempted to steal my camera equipment. I was armed and have a carry permit. I was able to change their minds and they left. I notified the rangers as soon as I was able to get a cell signal. A few days later I was notified that my tip had netted a marijuana grove in the forest.
Dangers do exhist but are extrememy rare. I carry a side arm as I live in mountain lion country, but I am highly trained in its use and have never had to use it in 40 some years but it never hurts to be prepared.
If you should feel threatened go take a firearms class only you are responsible for your own protection. Other than that just be careful and if you feel you are in a bad situation then change locations if you can. It is far more safe camping in wild area's than anywhere else. Like others have said be prepared for breakdowns and other problems which is more likely than having someone threaten you.