Running lights...Running lights...Running lights!

[deezlgeezr]

Anyone have pointers on running down the reason my running lights 'flickered' then died? I've removed/cleaned/inspected/reinstalled the Atwood male plug, but the camper is on the truck and getting to the female receptacle is nearly impossible w/o removing the camper. I could get to the wires under the truck however....

The relay or fuse at the battery is showing full voltage on both sides. The 5A fuse under the dinette seating area is intact. All fuses in the fuse compartment are intact, no thrown breakers.

My first guess is a short somewhere between the battery and the female plug; I'll check for power as close to the plug as I can. Second guess is some kind of short or break in the camper's umbilical connection. Final theory is the plug itself, something broken or corroded.

Camper is a 2017 Hawk Silver Spur front dinette. All other electrical components are working, camper is basically like new and this is the first issue of any kind. Any/all replies welcome, TIA!

 

[Offgrid4Two]

If the wiring was installed by a dealer or, the factory, your running light wire will not come from the battery compartment of the truck or, the camper. You should have a scotch lock connection at the tail light housing to get the feed for the running lights. Also, the running light feed is on a circuit all on its own. The fuse will be located right next to the Iota converter(green wire connected to a yellow wire with a black blade fuse holder). Sometimes, the wire is tucked to the right and will need to be fished out of the tight area to gain access to the fuse. Definitely check the connection of the plug on the truck. Who knows, it could be corrosion or, simply a loose connection.

 

[deezlgeezr]

Thanks for the reply...I have checked the fuse for the running lights (it's a 5 amp fuse on a green wire, near the ground bar, under the front dinette seating) - it's intact.

I think the plug is the culprit; I'm trying to find a way to check both sides of it to identify & isolate the suspected problem. Any suggestions would be welcome!

 

[TrapperMike]

Mine are connected to the license plate light. In a corrosive environment (i.e. salted winter roads), I could see that connection as the culprit. Recently wired up a new truck for the FWC and spliced into the license plate lights and covered with dielectric grease and heat shrink tubing.

 

[Mark G]

On my camper the wiring into the roof runs behind the front lift panel where it gets bent every time I lift and lower. Take a look there.

 

[Andy Douglass]

On my factory-installed FWC, I can see a wire running on top of the frame rail on the driver's side rear wheel well. I haven't gotten under there and looked but it would make sense that this is what powers the camper running lights; it probably splices into the tail lights and runs back to the trolling motor plug in the front of the bed. So if you look for that, you could troubleshoot it and also might be able to figure out which pin in the plug is for the running lights, and then you might be able to figure out which wire on the camper side of the plug goes to them. Might be useful. Maybe that splice wire got damaged somehow or melted on hot exhaust components?

 

[deezlgeezr]

Many thanks to all that have replied with ideas.....I found the license plate light connection & checked it, all good. The battery isolator near the ground bar has a wire coming in that I believe is straight from the Attwood plug (Attwood 7648 (F) & Attwood 7647 (M)). This green wire is showing 3.18 volts on it. Another green wire leaving the isolator (5A fused-labeled 'running lights') is also showing 3.18 volts as well.

So, it appears that I have power to the beginning of the line that powers the running lights. This makes me think it's a pinched wire somewhere in the collapsed upper. I'll look at the wiring in the front collapsable part - Thanks Mark G.!

 

[pvstoy]

3.18 volts is too low to light up a 12 volt bulb. What are your volts where it ties into the license truck wiring? From there with the trucks running lights on measure along the path at each connection to the fuse. Measure with the fuse removed to see the incoming voltage is 12 volts . If you do have 12 volts at the incoming side of the fuse, put the fuse in and see what you have then. If it is 3.18 volts then you have a short from there to the lights. As suggested check the wires behind the front lift panels. Worst case you might have to remove each light and check the wires for shorts.

 

[Andy Douglass]

3.18 volts is too low to light up a 12 volt bulb. What are your volts where it ties into the license truck wiring? From there with the trucks running lights on measure along the path at each connection to the fuse. Measure with the fuse removed to see the incoming voltage is 12 volts . If you do have 12 volts at the incoming side of the fuse, put the fuse in and see what you have then. If it is 3.18 volts then you have a short from there to the lights. As suggested check the wires behind the front lift panels. Worst case you might have to remove each light and check the wires for shorts.

Do fuses ever degrade and only partially work?

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Do fuses ever degrade and only partially work?

That would be very unusual. Use the ohm (resistance) function on your multimeter to check it. The fuse should have almost no resistance. What it sounds like is you have corrosion or some other form of high resistance dropping most of your voltage.

Patrick’s troubleshooting recommendation is correct, except I believe it’s not a short, it’s high resistance that’s dropping the voltage. My guess is it’s at the splice into your truck wiring, or the splice from the wire into the back of the female Atwood.

 

[deezlgeezr]

Once again, much thanks to the excellent suggestions. Patricks suggestions are right on point and very helpful - thanks for the reply!!

Really, really helpful to have a convenient resource to get quick knowledgable help!

 

[deezlgeezr]

Update....I managed to determine that my female Attwood plug (in the truck bed) is getting 12.6 volts. So I moved on to the Blue Sea Systems Automatic Charging Relay inside the dinette area.

There's a large 'wago' with a 5A-fused wire coming from the ACR into it, and the 'running lights' wire going out of it (as well as a couple other wires). I believe that this 5A-fused wire (connected to a large green wire) is the input for the running lights from the male Attwood plug. The wago has several small green wires coming out, one labeled 'running lights'. I'm wondering if all the green wires are 'running light' wires, just to different parts of the camper (10 running lights total, 8 small, 2 large multi-bulb).

I inspected the wiring at the front of the upper section, behind the front hinge-spring; it's all brand-new and undamaged. No signs of pinch/crush.

At this point I feel it is either a high resistance (short) in the camper's umbilical cable (from male Attwood into camper electrical) or a bad running light. REALLY don't want to drop the camper to fix this....

I'm grateful for the input from the members here, it's helped tremendously. TIA

 

[Old Crow]

-----------
(deezlgeezer said--

Update....I managed to determine that my female Attwood plug (in the truck bed) is getting 12.6 volts. So I moved on to the Blue Sea Systems Automatic Charging Relay inside the dinette area.

There's a large 'wago' with a 5A-fused wire coming from the ACR into it, and the 'running lights' wire going out of it (as well as a couple other wires). I believe that this 5A-fused wire (connected to a large green wire) is the input for the running lights from the male Attwood plug. The wago has several small green wires coming out, one labeled 'running lights'. I'm wondering if all the green wires are 'running light' wires, just to different parts of the camper (10 running lights total, 8 small, 2 large multi-bulb).
-snip-)
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Hoo-boy. I don't have this setup so I can't just go look at mine to try to understand what I'm reading in the description. Any chance of a photo? In any case, here's a diagram of the truck-to-camper wiring when the battery separator was (I believe) the SurePower 1314A (and perhaps others)...



I don't know what Blue Sea ACR you have but I've seen some have the 7611 so looked at the manual for that one and connections look similar so I'd think the diagram applies.

Quick question- When you found the 12.6 volts at the female Attwood connector-- are you sure you were checking the pin for clearance lights (blue in the diagram)? If you were on the yellow you'd also see 12.6. (yellow would be constant voltage but blue would turn on and off with the truck's parking lights switch). (Just asking to be sure there's 12.6 that far along the path from the license plate connection)

.

 

[deezlgeezr]

Thanks for the reply OC; BOTH bottom pins showed 12.6V at the female Attwood connector. The top pin showed nothing, assumed ground.

My Blue Sea Systems does have 7611 on it, hope the pic shows up!

 

[Old Crow]

BSS-ACR_1.jpgThanks for the reply OC; BOTH bottom pins showed 12.6V at the female Attwood connector. The top pin showed nothing, assumed ground.

My Blue Sea Systems does have 7611 on it, hope the pic shows up!

Thanks! That's helpful. As the owner of an older FWC (and a shell at that) I don't often get to see how FWC does things in the newer models.

I wasn't aware, for instance, that they're using that style of Wago connector (a 222-415, I believe-- or perhaps a knockoff). Wagos are just an easy way to tie together or split wire runs so I believe we are indeed seeing the larger green wire inbound from the Attwood male's blue wire and a yellow-wired fuse-holder added before the run enters the Wago. The two smaller green wires come out of the Wago for the run to go on toward the running lights. Given they are only powered when the truck's parking lights are turned on, I'd think the two small greens are exclusively used for the running lights.

I'm glad to see that photo as I was struggling with Offgrid4Two's post mentioning green to yellow wires. Why the heck yellow? Fuse-holder pigtails not following color code.

The other thing that jumps out of the photo at me is the other fuse-holder. What the heck am I looking at? My first thought was it's the fuse-assembly for the ground wire (which in itself seems odd but I see a ground-wire fuse on the installation diagram). It appears to come off the 7611's ground connection and I (barely) see a black wire on the other yellow at the top of the photo. I THINK we're seeing the ground-wire's fuse assembly laying on top of the white positive wire from the starter battery and we just can't tell that because of the angle. But I don't understand what that apparent protrusion is at the fuse-holder.

.

 

[deezlgeezr]

'The other fuse holder' appears to be attached to the ground on the 7611; it's also attached to a large black wire, likely from the inbound umbilical cord.

Right side white wire is 12.6 v, attached to the 'starter' (truck's) battery through the umbilical.

So that leaves the large green wire on left, must be the inbound 12.6v umbilical wire - strictly for running lights.

It's at this point (large green wire coming in from left side) that I measured 3.18 and later 4.5 v.

FOUND THE PROBLEM! I think-losing voltage through the inbound umbilical wiring. Guess I'll have chase that one down!!

Any suggestions for checking continuity on this wire? TIA!!

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

If you can, disconnect the wire at the bus, connect a longer wire w/alligator clipped to it to extend the meter leads is one way. First, I would closely inspect the condition of the male and female parts of the Attwood plugs for corrosion, bent, or spread pins.

 

[Old Crow]

Before doing a continuity test, I think I'd first try Patrick's suggestion (in post 8) of measuring voltage with the green wire's 5-amp fuse removed to see if you have +12 there. Then put the fuse back in and measure again (and we'd expect to find the oddly-low voltage).

As Patrick advises, +12 there with the fuse out suggests the problem is further along the circuit (toward the running lights or perhaps on the return path from them back to the negative post of the truck battery)

Also- If there's no voltage when you do your measurement, your probe is either on the wrong side of the fuse-holder contacts or not making contact. (Or, come to think of it, you forgot to plug the Attwood connector in and turn on the truck's parking lights for the test.)

The point of the test would be to disconnect from the wire leaving the fuse holder (by removing the fuse) and then give the +12 coming into the fuse holder an alternate path to negative/ground (through your meter).

.

 

[deezlgeezr]

That's an excellent idea OC, gonna try that shortly - Thanks!

 

[pvstoy]

Just got caught up on the recent postings.

Yea pulling the fuse and seeing if you have 12.6 volts on the input side of the fuse is the easiest way to make sure all is good to that point.

If not back track each section leg back to where the power taps off of the trucks wiring.

If yes good voltage, then go forward and check wiring and connections. Old Crow made a excellent suggestion about the grounding path back to the truck frame.

You can take apart the Wago connector with patience, use a skinny small flat blade and push it in to help bend back the metal to allow the bare wire to slide out with a good pull. Doing this will isolate the running light wires from each other and help determine what line is having problems. With using a 12 volt source, like the fuse wire you can hot wire direct to each running light wire individually to see witch lights come on.

You might try pushing and pulling on the wires at the Wago block to see if the lights come on.

Another tip is to use a small diameter needle or pin and push it into the wire insulation to the copper. This allows you to use a volt meter to check current. It is small enough that soft insulation will seal it's self. Harder wire if it is in the elements best to seal up the small hole. Just be careful not to poke it through your finger.