Seeking Opinions on Refridgerators and Truck Suspensions

steelhead

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
149
Location
NW Oregon
Hi all,

As mentioned on a recent post on the Trip Planning area, my wife and I are planning to purchase a FWC Fleet to ride on our Tacoma (access cab with the off-road package) this spring. We have pretty much decided on the configuration with 2 major exceptions: a 2 -way or 3-way fridge and whether to go with additional leafs or air bags on the truck to accommodate the load.

We have spent a lot of time researching both subjects on this site and ExpeditionPortal. Might be a result of information overload and what seems like evenly divided opinions but we just cannot seem to come to a decision on either one. I know these subjects have been debated on other posts but many of them are several years old now, so I am wondering if anything new has surfaced that would be helpful to know.

So, listed below are what seem to be the major advantages of the components. My request to the forum is to: 1) let us know if we are missing some significant points; and 2) let us know your preferences and if you had to choose again, would it be a different decision (and why).

Serious thanks to anyone interested in responding – your experiences and opinions are really important to us. Thanks!

2-way fridge
Pros: does not require a level parking spot; contains a freezer; less ‘finicky’ than the 3-ways
3-way fridge
Pros: will not require solar for extended (more than 3-4 days) stays in one spot; slightly cheaper

Air bags
Pros: can help level a parking spot; adjusts to compensate for the camper load and the camper being off or on the truck; smoother ride when the camper is removed
Leafs
Pros: more reliable, especially when traveling on rugged terrain


Thanks again,

steelhead
 
I have owned and used plenty of 2 and 3 way RV fridges and will tell you that they are both excellent configurations but it depends on how the owner will use them to determine which is "better" for your application. With 2 golf cart batteries, an efficient DC fridge such as the Engel or Dometic DC0040 will run for a week or more in summer heat without a problem and without any recharging. The downside is; you have to have the room and payload to carry the extra batteries. And what space (what stuff will you NOT be bringing along now) do you have to give up to get it? The big plus like you said is - you can pretty much park wherever you want. Something crazy like 35 degrees off axis or something. They take like five minutes to get cold on startup and the temp really never fluctuates, so they are dependable and predictable. This is especially important for wanderers who have medication which requires refrigeration. I wouldn't trust an LP fridge for this task.

The propane fridge is nice because you can run one for one hell of a long time on a jug of LP. I'd say three or four weeks no problem. The downside? They're finicky about heat dissipation/ventilation and require almost constant fiddling and strategizing to get it really cold and adequately maintain that temperature for hours and days. And then you can always unknowingly or unexpectedly freeze your food too if you forget to adjust the flame at night or during a cold snap.
 
As far as airbags vs leaf springs, they are designed to perform two totally different tasks. Airbags are for load leveling, springs are for load carrying. In some cases you may need both, but one should really not be used in lieu of the other.

EDIT: it can also be challenging trying to figure which springs or bags you will need for your application without first mounting the camper to see how it sits and taking the truck for a drive first to see how it responds - then go from there with your mods as necessary. On a 1st gen Tacoma, you will probably want some combination of both. On a 2nd gen, a lot of owners are totally satisfied with just the bags and stock leafs.

and please don't overlook upgrading your tires to 'E" load rating rubber. In my not so humble opinion, this is the #1 first most important upgrade a truck should have when mounted with an overhead camper.

I welcome you to WTW and hope you find the perfect camper to suit your needs.
 
I've got a Nissan Frontier king cab Nismo (off road package) and an Eagle. It will be 4 years of use in Feb. At first I thought the 3way fridge was great; minimal use of fuel, and very nice to have a refrigerator and not mess with ice. The leveling thing wasn't that big a deal as I usually slept level, but it you parked off center for a while during the day it would affect the use. I got very tired of constantly monitoring and adjusting the propane level; you can't just set a temp and it stays there, you have to constantly increase or decrease the propane level depending on how much cooling you need. As a result you become obsessed at monitoring the temp and even with that it gets too warm, food freezes, etc. It was quite a pain and created a lot of stress.

So I put in a Nova Kool DC only fridge last year along with a Sears group 31M battery. I looked at doing the 2 golf cart batteries, but the extra weight, extra space, and venting in the Eagle seemed like too much of a problem/hassle, so on advise from others in the Forum I went with the Sears. I can get 3 days of fridge use without moving. Love the simplicity of the DC fridge. So much less hassle and haven't had anything freeze. You do still have to fiddle and monitor some, but nothing like with the 3-way. I am very happy with that and would not want to go back to the propane. But.... it is a bit of a worry to be checking the battery level all the time to make sure I don't go too low; tried running the truck for a while stationary camping and that doesn't seem to do much. So I am not putting on a 100W solar panel to keep the battery charged and just not have to worry about anything. The fridge and solar do make for an expensive upgrade, but I really got to where I was hating that fridge and constantly worrying about food spoiling or freezing. If the solar works like it should, I shouldn't have to worry about anything - I can just go and enjoy.

I put on Air bags and they work fine. Never adjust them to level a parking spot; just adjust them for height in the spring and lower them in the fall. I take the camper off in the winter, so I like this flexibility. Another very important change was getting E rated stiffer tires. Make a world of difference in sway of the vehicle and much more enjoyable all the way around.

Good luck!
-RIck
 
We picked up our Grandby just before Christmas. The P&C's you listed are what we considered. Originally I thought we'd get a 3-way fridge. After talking with friends of ours that have used a 3-way fridge for 20 years and this year ordered new camper with one changed our minds. When I really questioned them about the 3-way fridge it seemed like the last thing I wanted to worry about was how to make it work properly. After much much more consideration and an email exchange with another WTW member, we decided on a 2-way fridge. Bit the bullet and added a solar panel and 2 batteries. Had a chance to shake out the camper over a 5 day camping trip to the Chuckwalla Mountains. We're extremely happy we chose the 2-way fridge. Simple and easy to use. When parking our biggest worry was whether or not the sink drain was up or down hill. Everything stayed cold as it was suppose to. We got the 110 and it held all of our food for the trip plus a few beers. Batteries would go down about 25% at night and recharge during the day. We would definitely choose the 2-way again.
 
Because of reviews here and elsewhere I also went with the 2 way 110L Waeco. Very pleased and my experience mirrors JHa6av8r. With dual batteries I find no need for solar.

I have seen a lot of people go from a 3 way to 2 way but never the opposite.

Can't comment on suspension mods.....I live happily in the 3/4 ton world. :)
 
Firestone air bags + the extra leaf from the factory work well on my '06 Tacoma. I travel light and don't do extreme off roading. If you plan on doing some heavy duty trekking, better get custom springs and really heavy duty tires. Some on the site like Timbrens but I have no experience with them.

As for the refrigerator, I have never had the frustration others talk about with the three way. Years of using them have conditioned me, I guess. I generally park near level any time I am going to leave the truck. I also installed the relighter mod that keeps it lit in everything but very strong winds when traveling. I don't find that I do much messing with it: light and set it. Medium for winter, high for summer. One draw back is that they don't work very well in high temperature weather (100+ degrees). A fan like that FWD lists may help in high heat situations as the refrigeration depends on air circulation.
 
Firestone air bags + the extra leaf from the factory work well on my '06 Tacoma. I travel light and don't do extreme off roading. If you plan on doing some heavy duty trekking, better get custom springs and really heavy duty tires. Some on the site like Timbrens but I have no experience with them.

As for the refrigerator, I have never had the frustration others talk about with the three way. Years of using them have conditioned me, I guess. I generally park near level any time I am going to leave the truck. I also installed the relighter mod that keeps it lit in everything but very strong winds when traveling. I don't find that I do much messing with it: light and set it. Medium for winter, high for summer. One draw back is that they don't work very well in high temperature weather (100+ degrees). A fan like that FWD lists may help in high heat situations as the refrigeration depends on air circulation.


Just a comment on the fan, it's not needed with the 2-way fridge.
 
I was just about to put an order in for a new FWC with the Compressor Fridge and Solar - one thing I did notice is that it was and expensive upgrade. I came across a used model that was only a year old and in new condition for half the price. It had a 3 way. I have use the 3 Way with out any issue- When it gets very hot out outside is struggles a little bit but not a big deal the beer still stays cold - just not super cold. I am camping and do not really seem to notice this stuff any way.

I like to be able to park my camper at a trail head for days at a time while I am hiking, fishing, or hunting. Propane gives the ability to do this

I do like the fact that fact though that I am not over complicating my camper. I do not like adding gadgets that make it more complex thus offering more of chance to break and ruin my trip. For me Solar adds to this equation. My batteries are for lights only, if they go I can still use my little black diamond lanterns and the fridge still runs on propane (I think the fridge might use a little bit of battery power but not enough to notice) Most compressor guys seem to have solar to power the fridge. No we are talking about a little camper fridge that costs as much as a double wide that would fit in my house. I think the total cost was something like $2500.00 by the time I added everything up.

It was all I could do to use my camper 28 nights last year - So I would have been looking at over 100.00 per night for just a fridge for that year in the event that I got a 2way with solar (Yes I know this ratio will lower the longer I keep the camper)

I have spent a significant amount of back country camping with my camper. The reality is that you do not want to park in a spot that is not level any way. I do not like sleeping on an angle. My parking experiences have not hindered the cooling ability of the fridge.

This FWC thing is a hoot.

I try not to let the fridge run my life and camp and eat accordingly - after all for me its camping.

I think either fridge you choose will work fine

BTW - I use E rated tires with Firestone Airbags and I am happy with this set up
 
Thanks for all the responses to the post - very useful information regarding both the fridges and the suspension. It looks like the most consensus is to go with E rated tires if we intend to do serious off-roading. Being new to off-road camping, it is hard to know what 'serious' means. So, is it realistic to start with the stock tires (BF Goodrich Rugged Terrain T/A) and upgrade as get more adventurous or should we bite the bullet now due to the load? Thanks again for the replies - it is really cool to have this real world experience database to tap into.

steelhead
 
Oh boy ... I have no idea why anyone that ventures out of the city with a "Load" on would not pay the money for "E" rated tires. I have always used "E" rated and have never had a flat with them. I have been in vehicles that have had lesser tires on them and we have had flats. Our tires are the only thing that comes between us and the road.

Its too the point with me that I refuse to use someone else's vehicle off roading or on dirt roads with tires with a lower than "E" rating.

One flat or blow out in a bad place will make you wonder why you did not pay the money up front. Because you will pay eventually.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh ya ... and half the fun with this kind of stuff seems to be the planning and plotting ... have fun with it!!!! :)
 
Thanks for all the responses to the post - very useful information regarding both the fridges and the suspension. It looks like the most consensus is to go with E rated tires if we intend to do serious off-roading. Being new to off-road camping, it is hard to know what 'serious' means. So, is it realistic to start with the stock tires (BF Goodrich Rugged Terrain T/A) and upgrade as get more adventurous or should we bite the bullet now due to the load? Thanks again for the replies - it is really cool to have this real world experience database to tap into.

steelhead

:LOL:
Steelhead, bite the bullet now. I just went on the BF site to check on the ply; well, get the "E" ply and not the 2 ply ones- and be sure. Look I spent most of my life out in the back country (30 plus years with the BLM working on all sorts of back country roads and non-roads) and on the gravel roads that you use to get to them. The first thing we did when we got a new truck (as I do with my own trucks-80 long bed Toyota 4x4 and 99 F150 4x4) in was dump the stock issue 2-ply AT tires-one time I didn't and I got 3 flats on a gravel road the first day-never again. It may ride a bit rougher (with my fwc on the back of the F150 1/2 ton-I didn't notice the diff that much) but all it takes is one rough rock bumping a 2ply side wall (maybe backing into a nice paved parking spot in a nice CG-then oooppps and there you are- only four tires to go and a day of wondering if my tire kit will patch the next flat and get me out.

On the frig, we have had lot's of discussions on that over the years, but I still have my 3-way and a solar back up on the roof-only broke once and the beer stayed cool until I got home. The more things you have out there-even in civilized areas, the easier things go ,so it's better to have to many back ups and not spend several days waiting for help-did I mention a cheap plugin air pump to go with that tire patch kit? I've had bad experiences with my air bags, but love my new specially made 3/4 ton rear springs on my 1'2 ton-but again you have been reading up on this, so what ever works for you is best.
Enjoy your new toys!

Smoke
 
Oh boy ... I have no idea why anyone that ventures out of the city with a "Load" on would not pay the money for "E" rated tires. I have always used "E" rated and have never had a flat with them. I have been in vehicles that have had lesser tires on them and we have had flats. Our tires are the only thing that comes between us and the road.

Its too the point with me that I refuse to use someone else's vehicle off roading or on dirt roads with tires with a lower than "E" rating.

One flat or blow out in a bad place will make you wonder why you did not pay the money up front. Because you will pay eventually.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh ya ... and half the fun with this kind of stuff seems to be the planning and plotting ... have fun with it!!!! :)


Right on Rambling man-great minds must think alike!

Smoke
 
I'd second or third the advice on E- rated tires.

We've owned two FWCs; the first had over 150,000 miles on it when we sold it. We used air bags on the stock rear springs, with uprated shocks, on both the Toyota trucks it rode on (a 1992, and a 2002 Tacoma), and that's the way we've gone with our new 2012 Tacoma and FWC Fleet. I installed Boss bags (bossglobalinc.com). They're Australian-made and tested to 750 psi. They're as stout as the Firestone bags, but their mounting position allows the use of larger-diameter shocks, which the Firestone bags won't. I've also installed shocks from Icon Vehicle Dynamics.

On the fridge: If you plan to travel in any temperatures over about 80 degrees, I'd strongly suggest the two-way fridge with a proper compressor. The three-way in our first FWC just couldn't cope with warm weather, no matter what modifications I did to it. The Dometic two-way in the new camper will have no such issues.
 
Funny, the only blow out flats I've had on tires where it was the tire in the last 30 years were on fairly easy paved road and the tires were E rated with less than 100 miles on them. On my old Toyota Chinook pop up. E rating is no magic, they can be blown same as any other tire. Though I avoid the 2 ply sidewalls I see little difference in tire safety between good LTs with better than 2 ply sidewalls and full E rated. The key is load capacity and how you drive with them.

I've driven a 4x4 ranger all over the US outback, but I don't go out deliberately doing 4x4 as sport unto itself. It's transportation. including nasty tire eating roads on which I use care. Only tire I lost out on a foray the alloy rim broke, not the tire. (120 degree heat in Arizona to change it)

I'd say if you have a set of good LT tires with better than 2 ply sidewalls that have a bunch of tread on them go ahead and use them, but don't abuse them. By the time you wear them out you will know if you need better. Do pay attention to the weight carrying capacity of the tires and don't exceed that, preferably don't even get close to that. And remember to adjust tire pressure accordingly.

My 2000 Ranger needed it's springs replaced so I put on a new set of progressive springs and replaced my bilstein shocks with a new set of those. Those upped my rear load rating from 1250 lbs to 1750 lbs, way calmed any sway. Being progressive springs they are designed to be comfortable through a wide range of loads. Rear bed height only varies about a inch between camper load and empty. The truck is exactly level with the camper on, high empty. I will say it's slightly more comfortable with the camper than empty, but not by a wide margin. No other modification Other than new wiring to support the Eagle's electrical system. I would have put on springs and new shocks even if my original springs had of been good. Springs are the correct way to go for something like this, which is weight capacity more than load leveling. And it's much better to go with a spring set specific to the job than the partial match of add a leaf setups.

I went with a Waeco 65 fridge in my Eagle. It's power usage is quite minimal, average 45watts at 12 volts according to Waeco, maximum 5.7 amps when running on 12 volts, but of course even at pretty high temps it only runs part of the time. (a 3 way will be running all the time, and it's electric usage is not comparable to the 2 way compressor, electric on 3 way just uses a electric heater rather than a propane flame) I, too have used the 3 way in other campers, too much is made of using propane on that. Propane is not free, and eats plenty of the space in the camper for the tanks. I'm using two 10 lb tanks, the standard size with FWC. That is 50 lbs added to the camper weight when the tanks are full. Any way I calculate it that's more than enough for more than a week for heating, hot water, stove, all I'll use propane for. I've even considered taking down tank size to 5lb at least some of the time, won't change storage space, but would change weight. If using a 3 way even more propane would be needed. Note also that a 3 way is heating the camper, especially so in hot weather, a 2 way compressor installed properly will heat the camper less. The 2 way will also give you a real freezer if you choose the right model. The Waeco 65 has a separate freezer compartment, some 2 way only have a coil compartment in the top of the fridge. That was one of my reasons to choose that particular model. With a real freezer you add a lot of options to your outdoor menu.

I'd be supporting at least one battery in the house bank even without the fridge. There's forced air heat, outside shower (to please my wife, which means pumped water) lights and so on, and in short usage periods a microwave. As it is I have two 100 amp hour batteries in the bank, modern Northstar NSB100FTs. If I wanted to go longer in the same space (about that of a single 31 series battery) I could have two 210 amp hour batteries from the same company. These are AGM batteries so it would take extreme conditions to have these vent gases, but even then they are fitted with vent tube connections, so no special storage conditions needed, just run the vent tubes outside. for many batteries you have to have them in a separate vented compartment that will have acid fumes in it at times. And they can leak acid. Not a good choice in a FWC.

My batteries will be charged when running using a vsr relay system tuned to the appropriate charge profile for the battery bank. I am expecting I'll eventually put in solar, the decision rests on the mix of running and camping we do and if the solar is really needed. when I do it will be controlled with a morningstar controller that will charge not just the house batteries but the starting battery too. I already have the controller ($145) and no way the total for solar will cost anything like the prices being quoted here. My Eagle has the Yakima rails so mounting solar is a minor issue, even two 120 watt panels would fit easily. The morningstar controller has enough rating to handle more then 3 of such panels. For a entire solar setup I'm sure I can stay well under $500 by watching sales, and I'll probably go with flexible panels which cost more (but I'll worry less about the weight or breakage). Note in the very rare times my Eagle will be near a plugin It will also have 30 amps of charging available from AC. One could count the assist struts on my Eagle as part of the solar to handle the weight, but this old guy needs those with or without solar.

You can wear hair shirts, take cold showers at dawn, get flogged every day or whatever you want. I've camped in the dead of winter in the high cascades with nothing but a sheet of poly for a tent and a 4 lb cheap sleeping bag. Also done that in the NorthWet, and dry weather directly on rock with just a sleeping bag, or even a few cases just a blanket. I do remember it as enjoyable too. My mountaineering days. I've also camped in a variety of campers all the way up to mini motorhomes like a LeSharo. All kinds of tents and other structures. But I do not approach using a FWC like it's a mountaineering tent. Whatever I use I will use what makes things better for that level of equipment. That means propane stove, compressor fridge, propane heater, tankless hot water heat for showers (with supporting water tank and pump), Microwave oven with it's supporting batteries and inverter (I've used a microwave before with even less house battery). I've camped a lot clear across the country with only a canopy shell on the back of the ranger, but I did not pretend that was tent camping and I won't pretend that a FWC is tent camping regardless of how far into the outback I go with it. It's it's own unique experience.
 
Years ago I went out of my way to buy the first BFG A/T's that came with a 3 ply sidewall. First trip out ruined one of them, second trip out ruined the other. This on trails that I had repeatedly run with 2 ply sidewalls of a different brand. So while I strongly recommend getting 3 ply sidewalls I also know that not all 3 plys are the same.
This is shortly before the first ruination:

Pontiac1.jpg


And this is how we jacked it up to fix it:
Odessa1-1.jpg
 
Once again, serious thanks for all the responses - they all contain very useful information.

The tire subject is turning out to be quite interesting. I talked with my preferred tire dealer yesterday who has provided really good guidance in the past for our other vehicles. He was strongly opposed to E rated tires on the Tacoma. He said several times that he has had multiple clients change them out quickly on Tacoma's because they adversely affected the handling characteristics of the truck. He recommended a set that are D rated instead.

For us, the pop-up is not going to be on the truck full time for probably the next 2 years (unless I can figure out a way to retire earlier :) ). With that in mind, I'm wondering if the D rated tires would not be better until we are spending more time camping. I am sure this idea will not be supported by those of you who are E rated advocates (which I totally understand) but I really trust my tire dealer so I wanted to throw it out there for opinions.

Jonathan - I am particularly interested in your point of view regarding the Tacoma with the E rated tires. Your JATAC setup is similar to what we are considering and I noticed on your web site that you going with new tires on your Tacoma. Assuming they are E rated but I'm wondering if you will be driving without your Fleet periodically, or will it be on full time? Also, if you have a minute, I would be interested in whether you have a point of view regarding Tacoma handling changes with the E rated tires.

Thanks again for all the information in the responses - it is really helping us understand the options and reasons behind the recommendations.

Cheers!

steelhead
 
Steehead,

I should clarify. I think the extra capacity and durability of E-rated tires is worth the slight trade-offs; however, I know many people who have had perfect experiences with D-rated tires as well. Since we'll have the FWC on our Tacoma full-time, we can use the heavier-duty tires without worrying about ride or handling compromises when the truck is empty. If we planned to take the camper off in between trips, I wouldn't hesitate to drive on D-rated tires.

I don't doubt those who have had E tires fail prematurely; however, this is anecdotal experience and of little value statistically. There's very little doubt that, in the main, they are extremely durable. In terms of fuel economy, I'd love to see a controlled test comparing various ratings to determine just how much difference there is. I can tell you that, with the E-rated 235/85/16 BFG All-Terrains we had on our turbodiesel-engined Land Cruiser FJ60, we were averaging 26 mpg before we sold it. Would we have averaged 27 with D-rated tires? Perhaps, but we certainly had no reason to complain. I strongly suspect there's more of a mileage difference between tread patterns than there is between carcass ratings.

We haven't yet replaced the stock tires on the JATAC, and they're looking pretty skimpy with massive remote-reservoir Icon shocks mounted behind them. We're still evaluating options, although our strong default tendency is the BFG All-Terrain, even though I think they've fallen behind the curve on technology.
 
Thanks for the reply Jonathan - very useful information. For us, the concern is more about handling with the E rated tires without the camper on than about mileage - it would be interesting, though, to see a data comparison. Since our dealer is willing to give us a decent trade in for the nearly new tires on the Tacoma, I think going with the D rated All Terrains would be a good compromise at this point.

One additional question if you don't mind. After reading posts all last weekend, I am now wondering how concerned to be about overall weight for the Tacoma. Since we are leaning hard toward the Fleet with a 2-way fridge, which is similar to your JATAC, do you have any concerns about the total weight? Thanks
 
Steelhead,

Concerns? I don't think I'd label my thoughts on the issue as concerns. It's definitely something I've considered and addressed where possible, in terms of adding suspension capability via the air bags and shocks, and ensuring we have high-quality tires mounted. Beyond that, I don't think there's any need to worry. I know several people with 2nd-generation Tacomas who've had FWCs mounted for some time with no issues whatsoever. Our photographer friend Jack Dykinga spends a lot of time off-pavement, and Tom Hanagan, the owner of FWC, has one mounted on a Tacoma and regularly exercises it as well. We put over 150,000 miles on our 1st-generation Tacoma and FWC with no issues - admittedly with a different chassis and bed design. We live seven miles down a high-clearance dirt road, so the combination gets a bit of work every time we leave the house.

There are certainly no concerns regarding the drivetrain of the Tacoma - it's well-built and understressed. I expect it to do just fine.
 
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