Solar Controller Problems

[pvstoy]

OK, so then what do we know? If the diagram is accurate:

1) With the camper on AC power, you will always have power inside the camper, no matter what position the kill switch is in. Is that the case for you? Is that the case for all FWC from the factory?

Yes, Also If you have a 2 way refg it will switch over to run on 120 volt AC. The Iota charges the battery only with the kill switch in the on position.

2) If you unplug the AC power, and leave the kill switch OFF (is that pushed in?) then if the LOAD setting in the MPPT is set to OFF, then you should have no power in the camper. Is that the case for you? Is that the case for all FWC from the factory?

Off for the kill switch is pushed in, no power DC in camper. FWC has gone weird with the load wire to fuse block and can't say if this is standard.

3) With kill switch OFF and the LOAD setting in the MPPT set to ON, you should have power, even with no sunshine falling on the solar panels, you will have power because it goes from the battery through the MPPT to the LOAD terminals. (That sounds goofy to me.... because it means the KILL switch doesn't kill all power). (Same questions).

Yea, goofy to me too. Don't know how FWC has been wiring MPPT to battery. But should be a direct from MPPT to battery, and the ground, so you can always receive charge to the battery from solar when the kill switch is off or on.

4) Per your troubleshooting above, if you disconnect your LOAD terminals, and the KILL switch is OFF and AC is not plugged in, you should have NO power in the camper. (Same questions)

Yes that isolates the battery to the camper to prevent draining down with small loads, like propane detector.

Any other testing you can report on would be good.

 

[rando]

The fuse block should either be wired to the battery OR to the load terminals on the controller, not both. This is a wiring mistake and explains both the odd behavior and could explain the failures off charge controllers.

The position of the kill switch doesn't matter if the DC circuits are also powered from load terminals on the charge controller.

However, once the charge controller fuse blew, pulling the kill switch would shut everything down, including disconnecting the charge controller from the battery (albeit through the load terminals), which can be hard on the charge controller.

 

[acmedave]

OK, so then what do we know? If the diagram is accurate:

1) With the camper on AC power, you will always have power inside the camper, no matter what position the kill switch is in. Is that the case for you? Is that the case for all FWC from the factory?
2) If you unplug the AC power, and leave the kill switch OFF (is that pushed in?) then if the LOAD setting in the MPPT is set to OFF, then you should have no power in the camper. Is that the case for you? Is that the case for all FWC from the factory?

3) With kill switch OFF and the LOAD setting in the MPPT set to ON, you should have power, even with no sunshine falling on the solar panels, you will have power because it goes from the battery through the MPPT to the LOAD terminals. (That sounds goofy to me.... because it means the KILL switch doesn't kill all power). (Same questions).

4) Per your troubleshooting above, if you disconnect your LOAD terminals, and the KILL switch is OFF and AC is not plugged in, you should have NO power in the camper. (Same questions)

Any other testing you can report on would be good.

Q 1) yes that IS the case for me
Q 2) yes that is the case for me
Q 3) I don’t have power in this case
Q 4) yes that is the case

I have borrowed a better multi meter and found that the positive wire in the load pair at the controller is ALWAYS hot. I can’t yet find where it is coming from as it disappears behind an interior cabinet divider.

In post #28, I said:
The load positive wire [at the controller] is connected to the fuse box and the fuse box has power whether the load positive was connected at the controller or not.
and that statement is wrong.
The load positive wire at the controller is NOT connected at the fuse block, I am trying to discover just where it originates and why it is always hot.

Really wish FWC had some basic wiring diagram.

Was considering just disconnecting and taping off the load wires but a hot wire in the cabinet with an unknown source seems dangerous.

Have determined that the load control in the app is working. With nothing connected to the load terminals they have 0V with ‘load off’ and 12+V with ‘load on’

 

[Vic Harder]

So your observations match the diagram. Cool. Can you clear something up? You say:

1) The LOAD function works
2) You also say "the positive wire in the load pair at the controller is ALWAYS hot"...

Is this the wire itself when disconnected from the controller?

 

[acmedave]

So your observations match the diagram. Cool. Can you clear something up? You say:

1) The LOAD function works
2) You also say "the positive wire in the load pair at the controller is ALWAYS hot"...

Is this the wire itself when disconnected from the controller?

It is. I’ve tried to trace it out, but it disappears into the woodwork. I’m not ready to start pulling cabinetry apart yet. Pondering on another way. It is a white wire and the only other exposed white wire of a similar size I have found is at the battery separator.

 

[Vic Harder]

It is. I’ve tried to trace it out, but it disappears into the woodwork. I’m not ready to start pulling cabinetry apart yet. Pondering on another way. It is a white wire and the only other exposed white wire of a similar size I have found is at the battery separator.

whoa. OK, so take the white wire off the battery separator, and off the MPPT LOAD terminal. Check continuity. Also, check that the 12V hot on the white wire at the MPPT does NOT have power when you take the white wire off of the separator. That could be another key part of this puzzle.

 

[acmedave]

whoa. OK, so take the white wire off the battery separator, and off the MPPT LOAD terminal. Check continuity. Also, check that the 12V hot on the white wire at the MPPT does NOT have power when you take the white wire off of the separator. That could be another key part of this puzzle.

Removed the white wire from the B pole of the battery separator, and lost all DC power to the camper. Checked continuity and with the white wire disconnected at both end and found continuity.

Seems to me the white wire from the separator must supply the kill switch and somewhere before kill switch another circuit is run from that wire to the load terminal of the solar controller. Why? Would that be required to monitor the load? and still allow the AC charger to charge the batteries?

Also wondering why the 15A fuse in the battery to solar controller failed and if it was like that from the factory could that have inclined somebody to mess up wiring the load terminal?

Thinking about just reconnecting the white wire to the solar controller. Setting the load to off. Adding in a BVM. Maybe once FWC opens again someone can explain the path of the white wire to me. I haven’t yet figured out how to get behind the fuse block and kill switch to examine connections.

 

[Vic Harder]

The white wire on the separator is supplying power from truck battery. Makes sense that it is supplying power to your camper as long as the truck battery isn't getting discharged too much. Interesting though, because that means the IOTA is also charging your truck battery.

I'm thinking your idea of disconnecting the load wire (cap it with a wire nut for now) is a good one. rando's suggestion that this is a wiring error makes some sense. FWC has not been using Victron gear for very long, and the previous units didn't have LOAD outputs, so this is a new area for them. Issues may still be being worked out.

FYI, I wired my system so that the kill switch kills DC power no matter where it comes from.

 

[acmedave]

The white wire on the separator is supplying power from truck battery. Makes sense that it is supplying power to your camper as long as the truck battery isn't getting discharged too much. Interesting though, because that means the IOTA is also charging your truck battery.

But why/how would the camper be running off the truck battery. Don’t like that idea much.

When the camper is not on the truck I still have 12V power.

And there is a white wire on both sides of the separator. Foolishly I idin’t test both only the one that seemed most likely to be headed to the kill switch. The one on the B terminal.

So much to try to understand!

 

[Vic Harder]

Dave, Camper and Truck are connected by the isolator by design, until either one is below a certain threshold, then it disconnects them. Works fine that way.

Now, are you saying that even with the camper OFF of the truck, you have 12v on that white wire? That's .... free energy?

If so, we need to keep digging.

 

[acmedave]

I'm thinking your idea of disconnecting the load wire (cap it with a wire nut for now) is a good one. rando's suggestion that this is a wiring error makes some sense. FWC has not been using Victron gear for very long, and the previous units didn't have LOAD outputs, so this is a new area for them. Issues may still be being worked out.

This is my plan for now. Still intend to try tracing out the hot wire coming into the load side of the controller.

I appreciate everybody’s help.
Will report back with any new discoveries.
I’ve learned a lot and have a lot more learning to do. You’ve all been great and patient.
Wishing you all safety and good health through this coronavirus crisis.
Dave

 

[PaulT]

Dave,

Search for a “fluke fox and hound” tool. Home Depot sells several. Choose one that can work on a live circuit. You may be able track down the other end of the circuit. You will need to have patience as you learn how to use the tool.

Paul

 

[ckent323]

Something like this for 12 v circuits

https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-NCVT-2-Standard-Protection/dp/B004FXJOQO/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=12+v+live+circuit+detector&qid=1585773904&refinements=p_72%3A1248909011&rnid=1248907011&s=hi&sr=1-6


I have tried using a 110 v live circuit detector on a 24 V circuit and it didn't work. May depend on manufacturer though.

 

[crashmaster]

Following this thread closely as I have a similar issue. 2018 Hawk, original owner, (November 2018 manufacture date), FWC installed Overland Solar system.

The 100/15 MPPT controller failed just as acmedave's but I am only on my second MPPT, likely because my camper sits in a covered garage most of the time without sunlight on the panel.

Brian at Overland Solar was puzzled by the failure as well and he immediately sent me a new MPPT. I can't say enough good things about Brian, a stand up honest guy and great customer service.

Unfortunately I am nowhere near my camper but when I return to it I will for sure disconnect and cap the load wires on the MPPT and start following all your trouble shooting suggestions and report back. Might be a couple of months for me to get there though.

Vincent

 

[pvstoy]

I have been thinking... why and what is FWC doing with the "load" ports on the MPPT? It would be curious as how they have this wired to what end result they expect. Are they turning off the battery system if it drops too low for protection or using it as a data point for the controller?

Here is more about the load ports on a Victron MPPT in rush.
Load Output of MPPT Charge Controllers - Victron Community

This viedo shows the extra pair of wires for the load that FWC is hooking up. Like to know where and how they end.
.
.

 

[crashmaster]

Hi acmedave, did you ever figure out the cause of you MPPT failures in your 2018 Hawk?

I just had my second Overland Solar MPPT fail on my 2018 Hawk with the FWC installed Overland Solar system. It functioned properly for roughly 2 weeks before failure. The load wires were connected to the MPPT. The fuse going from solar to the battery was also good in both cases.

Very frustrating to not be able to depend on solar power in the camper.

I have another email in to Brian at Overland Solar and also a call into FWC in California. Hopefully will get a response this week.

Let me know if you discovered anything else about our troubles with the MPPT.

Thanks, Vincent

 

[Jack]

Fascinating reading. 3 failed Victron MPPT Controllers on two FWCs, along with your characterization of the problem, looks an awful lot like faulty wiring design or error by FWC. FWC needs to get involved - there may be more owners with this problem.

acmedave, the FWC dealer in Portland and Seattle, Mule Expedition Outfitters (dasmule.com), does custom mods on FWCs and other overland vehicles. I know they work with the folks in Woodland. If it's feasible for you to get to Mule, see if FWC can have Mule troubleshoot on their behalf.

Wiring is vastly improved from my previous 2005 Eagle, but it still looks like there are a lot of custom connections. I hope FWC is moving toward a relatively small number of wiring harnesses with connectors. Wire and connectors, even if unused, are cheap relative the cost of labor for custom wiring (and especially troubleshooting).

If they don't have already, FWC needs an in-house expert on wiring. Solar will continue to change rapidly, and the Sure Power 1413A already needs to be replaced as standard equipment (DC-DC, smart battery separator, or a smart lithium battery).

A few weeks ago, I had a very interesting conversation with whomever was answering the phones on Saturday. FWC is still on a dozen or so Excel spreadsheets for each build, hence the $250 post-order change fee. He also commented that the permutations of models and options results in over a million possibilities, but they are working hard to get onto a manufacturing software platform.

Another interesting comment. The majority of buyers have been older and often retired but there is a shift to more buyers in their 30s to 50s. FWC is working hard to increase sales in this group. Also, most owners aren't like us, the ones posting here. Not too surprising. Engineer-itis and geek-itis affects a relatively small part of the population. Maybe 80% or more of buyers will not make any changes to their FWCs over the life of their ownership.

 

[crashmaster]

Still awaiting a reply from Overland Solar and FWC about my MPPT failures. I did speak with Service at FWC and they forwarded my troubles to a electronics guy about a week ago but I have not heard back as of yet.

In any case when I get a replacement MPPT from either FWC or Overland Solar I will not connect the load wire and hopefully that will work. What is also a bit strange is that my first MPPT lasted a little over a year and the second one only a couple weeks, although most of time my camper is parked in a garage so the MPPT did not have enough voltage to keep the charger on.

 

[crashmaster]

I received my third charge controller from overland solar. I have disconnected and capped the load wiring from the controller since it is not needed and may be the cause of the problem. Hopefully third time is a charm!

 

[Vic Harder]

I received my third charge controller from overland solar. I have disconnected and capped the load wiring from the controller since it is not needed and may be the cause of the problem. Hopefully third time is a charm!

keep us posted!!!