Suggested options?

[steve whiteside]

Hello everyone, Im brand new here. Planning to order a Grandby out of SOCAL. I was looking or a general consensus on a few items. Also realize i am pretty handy, more so than the average Joe I think. I am looking for the "easy" items to do on my own vs paying FWC.

1. Electrical. Im wanting to go with lithium and therefore planning to go with a minimum of electronics from FWC. Buy the single AGM battery and no solar controller. I am even considering buying a 3000 goal zero. It comes with solar controller, LI battery, and charger from my truck.

2. Yakima racks. Thinking of buying just the mounted rails. In that manner I can use these rails to mount solar and I get the factory warranty on the roof penetrations. Good idea?

3. Solar. I want solar panels pretty much from the get go. I was thinking price wise and Li battery wise I could do better myself than FWC., yes? I probs want at least 200w and maybe 300-400w. The dealer says that the roof is prewired to the solar controller spot and then down to the batteries too.

thanks, steve

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Steve welcome to the cult.
Sounds like you are settled on a shell model.
There is a lot of info here to help you with a DIY job.

A couple of members to look to are ski3pin, billharr and
wandering sagebrush just to mention a few.
They have a lot of experience in working with a shell model.

Myself I went with the full camper,I have the talent just not the want to
do all the major work.
I have a ATC Bobcat,have you looked into All Terrian campers?

Frank

 

[steve whiteside]

Frank, actually no Im not going with the shell model, Im going with the front dinette, heater, water heater, flat sided dark grey exterior, silver inside. BTW I have an F350 diesel, long bed, crew cab 4x4 2012 with ~50,000miles- if that makes any difference.

Let me check out the ATC line. Does it have obvious advantages over the FWC?

steve

 

[Vic Harder]

ATC advantage is that they do custom work.

You can definitely do better for less on the solar than the factory. I have 330W on the roof in a single panel. 440w is now available in the same physical size.
Get good electronics. Folks here like the Victron line. I have bought from PKYS.com a few times. Reliable folks. Get both their MPPT controller and the BMV 712 battery monitor.
I have two BattleBorn 100AH LiFePo4 batteries.
With a good solar/lithium setup, you may not need to change your wiring for charging from the truck, as it may be completely unnecessary. Monitor your usage before springing for a good Victron or other battery separator & DC-DC charger.

Just getting the rails is a good plan. Solar panels mount nicely to the rails. And you get that factory warranty on the roof. If you are ok skipping the warranty, and you just want the rails for the solar panel, you can save money by using rails from Lee Valley.

 

[steve whiteside]

oooh, that was just the sort of clear advice I was looking for. Thanks Vic.

After reading through this thread Ive decided to delete the aluminum folding steps on the back too. steve

 

[billharr]

Check this thread out, it will provide some good reading. Camper builds.

 

[Wango]

Just to second the ATC thing, nothing at all against FWC, they make great campers. But if you are going shell, and you want custom, i think they are a great option. Welcome to the cult indeed!

 

[steve whiteside]

One advantage right off the bat with ATC is the roof capacity is 1000pounds compared to 100 pounds of the FWC as stated by the dealer. It would be nice to be able to get up there and walk around.

Im pretty much sold on the FWC. I wouldn't say I am doing a "build", Im just going to customize mine on a few items. Thanks for the advice and pointers though.

steve

 

[longhorn1]

Not sure that is correct. The 100 is what you could carry. It would be pretty hard to raise the roof. The 1000 would probably be snow load capability. Others can weigh in. There is little chance there is that much difference between ATC and FWC as the concept came from family members that left and started ATC.

One advantage right off the bat with ATC is the roof capacity is 1000pounds compared to 100 pounds of the FWC as stated by the dealer. It would be nice to be able to get up there and walk around.

Im pretty much sold on the FWC. I wouldn't say I am doing a "build", Im just going to customize mine on a few items. Thanks for the advice and pointers though.

steve

 

[longhorn1]

Welcome. You got great feedback from some very knowledgeable people in this group. The Goal Zero is an interesting concept. Several new Hardside campers are using Goal Zero (Kimbo, Adventurer's new Scout series). Very much minimalist approach and very simple. You should have amazing luck with a 3000. I bought the 400 Lithium for back-up at home and take it with us. I also bought their solar panel, so if I need it I can use the solar to charge it, plug it in while driving, or charge on my Honda 2200. jd

 

[larryqp]

Steve, I agree with your thought process to get some things done by the factory and do the rest yourself, that's what I did. My somewhat brief build is on the forum with the following title. Don't know how to do a link, you should be able to find it thru the search function



2016 F150 FX4 & 2019 FWC Hawk shell build out

 

[PaulT]

Steve, I agree with your thought process to get some things done by the factory and do the rest yourself, that's what I did. My somewhat brief build is on the forum with the following title. Don't know how to do a link, you should be able to find it thru the search function


2016 F150 FX4 & 2019 FWC Hawk shell build out

https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/18777-2016-f150-fx4-2019-fwc-hawk-shell-build-out/

Paul

 

[rando]

Most of us went through this decision process when ordering a camper, it is fun but can also lead to analysis-paralysis. I ended up settling on anything that require cutting through walls of the camper I would have FWC install, and I would do the rest - it seems that finding the frame members and getting a clean seal after the fact is hard to achieve.

To answer your specific questions:
1. If you are electrically handy, get the minimum set of electronics from FWC or ATC. It is not a strong point for either company. Again, if you are electrically handy then the goalzero is not a great solution. You get a box full of mediocre parts and 10.8V battery that requires a lot of work arounds to work in a 12V system. 3000Wh (notice they don't use the standard industry Ah capacity) is a lot of power, do you need that much? Most are more than happy with 100 or 200 Ah (I have 150Ah) of lithium and quality components, an MPPT charge controller, a current shunt battery monitor and sinewave inverter if you need it.

2. Agreed on having FWC install the Yakima tracks only. That way they are responsible for the roof penetrations
and it is a super easy way to add solar panels or other accessories. There is no way you can walk on the roof of either FWC or ATC.

3. See point 1 - you can do better for less with solar. Depending on your usage somewhere between 150 - 300W of solar works for most folks. Flexible panels are lighter and thinner, but are prone to failure and are harder to mount. Rigid panels are cheap and easy to find in the right dimensions and mount to the tracks, but can add a fair bit of weight to the roof in larger sizes. For charge controllers the Victron MPPT units are really the only way to go - pick the one that is sized for your panel.

Hope this helps.

 

[steve whiteside]

Most of us went through this decision process when ordering a camper, it is fun but can also lead to analysis-paralysis. I ended up settling on anything that require cutting through walls of the camper I would have FWC install, and I would do the rest - it seems that finding the frame members and getting a clean seal after the fact is hard to achieve.

To answer your specific questions:
1. If you are electrically handy, get the minimum set of electronics from FWC or ATC. It is not a strong point for either company. Again, if you are electrically handy then the goalzero is not a great solution. You get a box full of mediocre parts and 10.8V battery that requires a lot of work arounds to work in a 12V system. 3000Wh (notice they don't use the standard industry Ah capacity) is a lot of power, do you need that much? Most are more than happy with 100 or 200 Ah (I have 150Ah) of lithium and quality components, an MPPT charge controller, a current shunt battery monitor and sinewave inverter if you need it.

2. Agreed on having FWC install the Yakima tracks only. That way they are responsible for the roof penetrations
and it is a super easy way to add solar panels or other accessories. There is no way you can walk on the roof of either FWC or ATC.

3. See point 1 - you can do better for less with solar. Depending on your usage somewhere between 150 - 300W of solar works for most folks. Flexible panels are lighter and thinner, but are prone to failure and are harder to mount. Rigid panels are cheap and easy to find in the right dimensions and mount to the tracks, but can add a fair bit of weight to the roof in larger sizes. For charge controllers the Victron MPPT units are really the only way to go - pick the one that is sized for your panel.

Hope this helps.

Yes Rando thanks for the comments, they help! The nice thing about the goal zero is that it is portable. So if i need power for a project, or my house electrical goes out, or my son needs something for his camping- i can unplug and pass it over. The downside is that if one component goes then the whole thing goes. Also it is not cheap to begin with!

Some info about my needs that I haven't shared so far and impacts the above. We typically go Baja for 10 days in the summer. Hot down there on the sea of cortez side. I have a good amount of electrical needs: coffee pot in morning at 1100watts for 10 minutes, I bring a full on chest freezer that runs off of a 400w inverter cycling on and off full time, a bug zapper light, and a 12v FridgeFreeze brand chest style refrigerator. I also just bought an electric bike I will need to charge. I have a couple renology 100w panels with its own MPPT controller. I also bring a 3KW generator to top things off. I have 2 ea 270 amp hour Mastervolt AGM batteries that I try to keep full. I have a 20ft enclosed trailer to carry all of that and some toys. One summer we bought down 80 haggendaz ice cream bars and enjoyed each and every one! Literally it is like we set up a compound and we have enough stuff for an invasion. This all works well enough and I like it the way it is.

As i get closer to retirement I am looking for keeping all of the above but also putting together a smaller footprint RV that I can take for just myself and/or wife for skiing or surf trip to mexico. Hence the popup camper. The goal zero I can hot swap between my two rigs as needed. Last winter I went to mammoth mtn for skiing and camped out of the back of my truck. It was fun enough but either I was outside freezing (20F at night) and bundled, or I was in the bed of my truck in my sleeping bag. I envision with this pop up camper I could have some refuge without being in my sleeping bag.

I appreciate the feedback and I look forward to joining the group as a participating member.

steve

 

[steve whiteside]

 

[steve whiteside]

Welcome. You got great feedback from some very knowledgeable people in this group. The Goal Zero is an interesting concept. Several new Hardside campers are using Goal Zero (Kimbo, Adventurer's new Scout series). Very much minimalist approach and very simple. You should have amazing luck with a 3000. I bought the 400 Lithium for back-up at home and take it with us. I also bought their solar panel, so if I need it I can use the solar to charge it, plug it in while driving, or charge on my Honda 2200. jd

exactly what I am thinking. I had no idea they made single panel at 400watts. I need to check that out.

 

[steve whiteside]

Is the thermal pack worth it at $750?? Im expecting I will need the insulation but I was wondering if there is a better way to go for the money? It needs to look decent too.

steve

 

[Vic Harder]

Thermal pack is nice - either purchased from the factory or home made (several here have made their own) - because you can leave it in place permanently. And it looks nice vs putting reflectix or some other insulator up/down every time you raise/lower the top.

455w panel - https://www.canadiansolar.com/hiku/

If you are putting up a big panel like that, get the factory to upgrade your shock-lifter thingys. I think factory stock is 30 or 40# of lift. I have 80# on mine for the front because of the big panel. Keep in mind that with 80# shocks you will NOT be able to lower the roof without the weight up there!

Thanks for the extra details about your power needs. They are substantial. I went with 200AH of Lithium because we want to run an 1800W induction cooktop in this new build. First test trip is this Monday! I think 100AH would have been enough for our needs, but a single 100AH BattleBorn battery can only output 100A (BMS limited), which isn't enough juice for the cooktop to run at full power. So I needed 2 in parallel. AGM batteries don't have BMS systems, BUT no single AGM/FLA battery is excellent at both the slow drain of normal solar powered systems, nor the full on max current of a vehicle starting battery.

I have a 3000W AIMS pure sine wave inverter in my rig now. It is HUGE by comparison to my older Renogy 1000W inverter. These bigger power demands take up room and add significant weight, so keep that in mind too.

The stock heater that the factory uses is pretty good, although it comes from the RV industry. Folks who do "upgrade" style builds tend to like marine or overlanding grade hardware. I used a Propex brand heater in both my builds, and others are liking the Wabasto style diesel heaters. Some also add Wave3 (or 6) heaters to their setups for extra (quiet) heat in the winter.

 

[camelracer]

Don't plan on walking on the roof of either FWC or ATC campers no matter what their load ratings are.

 

[steve whiteside]

Thermal pack is nice - either purchased from the factory or home made (several here have made their own) - because you can leave it in place permanently. And it looks nice vs putting reflectix or some other insulator up/down every time you raise/lower the top.

455w panel - https://www.canadiansolar.com/hiku/

If you are putting up a big panel like that, get the factory to upgrade your shock-lifter thingys. I think factory stock is 30 or 40# of lift. I have 80# on mine for the front because of the big panel. Keep in mind that with 80# shocks you will NOT be able to lower the roof without the weight up there!

Thanks for the extra details about your power needs. They are substantial. I went with 200AH of Lithium because we want to run an 1800W induction cooktop in this new build. First test trip is this Monday! I think 100AH would have been enough for our needs, but a single 100AH BattleBorn battery can only output 100A (BMS limited), which isn't enough juice for the cooktop to run at full power. So I needed 2 in parallel. AGM batteries don't have BMS systems, BUT no single AGM/FLA battery is excellent at both the slow drain of normal solar powered systems, nor the full on max current of a vehicle starting battery.

I have a 3000W AIMS pure sine wave inverter in my rig now. It is HUGE by comparison to my older Renogy 1000W inverter. These bigger power demands take up room and add significant weight, so keep that in mind too.

The stock heater that the factory uses is pretty good, although it comes from the RV industry. Folks who do "upgrade" style builds tend to like marine or overlanding grade hardware. I used a Propex brand heater in both my builds, and others are liking the Wabasto style diesel heaters. Some also add Wave3 (or 6) heaters to their setups for extra (quiet) heat in the winter.

Vic, how do people in the US buy those panels? I did not see an online means to buy. steve