Tacomas - Tires, air bags, and rear springs. Weight issues - Revisited

[RC Pilot Jim]

Since its spring and we will get a new group of first time campers, I wanted to share the following from a Field report that is on my original post, page 15 # 145. There was a little dialog so there was a little more on page 15, # 147.

Personally I still prefer the smaller truck as it is easier to park that the big ones. Setup properly they work very well in the field as many Tacoma owners will confirm.


Field Report

Tires:
Whichever manufacture you choose make sure there is letters " LT' before the number. LT (light truck) is a 10 ply rated tire that will support the camper weight. And Load range " E "( Most Fleet/Eagles regular campers weigh around 1,350 pounds EMPTY... withOUT food, water, clothes and camping gear. These items add another 350 - 500 pounds. When we bought the truck it came with "P"265/70R16. (Load range C) Now it has "LT"265/75R16. Load range E and half inch higher. We have had very good service out of our "Hankook TA's" (52,000 miles to date (June 2018)...Bet they go 70,000 miles or more.

\We use our rig mixture of offroad (fire road type to semi-washed out trails) and asphalt. If you mount it full time (bolt it down) you will need to weld plates (Go to my Gallery and review the pictures) on the frame to bolt the camper to because the bed floor is plastic composition. Four wheel sells elevator bolts (flat on top) the correct length which is longer than what is commercially available. Because the frame is not boxed we drilled the composite bed 2 sizes larger diameter to allow for frame flex, After over 52,000 miles (June 2018) we have NO squeaks and the locking nuts are still tight.(checked once per month).

Springs or air bags
If you take it on and off buy air bags. We leave ours mounted full time so we have a custom spring set. I went to my local spring shop that services commercial trucks and Motorhomes and had a custom 4 leaf set configured to support 1500 pounds(recently we learned springs are rated to support more weight (1800 pounds) than I asked for) cost $625.00 in 2013. Rig rides about 6 inches above horizontal empty of camping gear and a little higher than level with 500 pounds of camping gear.

Camping weight - Gross 5,500 pounds
Our 4WD Tacoma without the tailgate weighs 4200 pounds with half tank of fuel - no driver. Our "improved" shell weighs 1,100 empty. Add water, food, clothes and camping gear for a week in the desert and Top off the fuel tank (add 65 pounds) = 5,850 pounds without passengers. Add the driver (wife doesn't go to the desert) = 6,100 pounds.

Fuel weighs 6.183 pounds per gallon. A full tank of gas (130 pounds.- 6.183 x 21)

Overloading
The door sticker shows the GVWR as 5500 pounds. Front is rated at 2755 pounds. Rear 3110 with P265/70R16 (Total 5865 pounds) .

The LT265/75R16 are rated at 3415 pounds per tire at 80 PSI. We run ours at 40 psi on the highway so guess they support 1,700 pounds per tire or 6,830 pounds for four. My total weight (6200 pounds - one person. Wife doesn't go to the desert) is well within the tire max.

That is the reason you need 10 ply tires and air bags or custom spring set.

Driving impression
The 4.0 V-6 and trailer towing package - 3.73 gear gives you plenty of power and torque despite the weight. Before towing the Suzuki Samurai and being restricted to 60 mph towing we could easily pass semi's on 2 lane roads without worry. Fuel milege highway: 14.5-18.5 mpg on premium fuel. 14.5 towing the Samurai on flat ground.

The primary issue is brake Fade
Driving conservatively (we putt along at 65-70) and downshifting the auto transmission on down grades, we have not experienced dangerous brake fade and have yet to replace the front brakes (52,000 miles - June 2018),

The 2013 is rated to tow 6500 pounds with the tow package. Our tow vehicle (2100 pounds) is not setup with "working tow brakes". I have considered it though the cost ( around $ 800) is too much at this time...,And I don't really need too... Driven conservatively, Downshifting the auto transmission on down grades = no problem . In 5,000 towing miles we have only had to make one panic stop and the brakes easily were up to the task,

 

[alijabosdotcom]

Couldn't seem to find any of your images related to your frame mounting technique. I have the Eagle shell model and I suspect I am sitting at around 900lbs in it's current form. (battery, solar and roof rack.) I have firestones and LT Cooper tires. Truck seems to handle it fine.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSKYa9IgVIs/

Anyone have a link to the 40" 30lb or 40lb gas struts that would work on the outside of a Eagle or Fleet?
C16-31896??

I can't find them anywhere on the internet.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Hi Ali
Click on my Avatar ( the small picture to the left of this reply). Scroll down to my " gallery" it should be the first album.

Pictures aren't too clear though.

Procedure to mount it permanently.
1. Contact Four Wheel ( or ATI) and purchase 4 ea elevator bolts to bolt the camper down to a Gen one Tundra
2. After arranging with your local welder, load the camper on the truck, take it to him. Have him drill the holes per the pattern the manuf suggests.
3. Drill the hole in the composite bed two sizes larger.
4. Drop in the bolts.
5. Then fabricator welds the plates as required

Our fabricator welded two in front and found two existing holes in the rear to mount to. Cost us $400 in 2013 California.

 

[Ronski]

LT tire rating does not mean 10 ply or 10 ply equivalent. That's where the E rating comes in. For example, on my Tacoma, which is not the vehicle I use for my camper, I have LT tires with load range C.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Well I "sit" corrected. the last time I spoke with a tire store "expert" they said LT and Load range "E" rating were the same.

Copied the following from .tirerack.com

The explanation on the web is a little easier to read than this one.


TIRE TECH


Load Range / Ply Rating Identification
The load range/ply rating branded on a tire's sidewall identifies how much load the tire is designed to carry at its industry specified pressure. Passenger tires feature named load ranges while light truck tires use load ranges that ascend in alphabetical order (letters further along in the alphabet identify stronger tires that can withstand higher inflation pressures and carry heavier loads). Before load ranges were adopted, ply ratings and/or the actual number of casing plies were used to identify the relative strength with higher numeric ratings or plies identifying tires featuring stronger, heavier duty constructions.
Today's load range/ply ratings do not count the actual number of body ply layers used to make up the tire's internal structure, but indicate an equivalent strength compared to early bias ply tires. Most radial passenger tires have one or two body plies, and light truck tires, even those with heavy-duty ratings (10-, 12- or 14-ply rated), actually have only two or three fabric plies, or one steel body ply.
In all cases, when changing tire sizes or converting from one type of size to another, it is important to confirm that the Load Index in the tire's service description of the new tire is equal to or greater than the Load Index of the original tire and/or that the new tire's rated load capacity is sufficient to carry the vehicle's gross axle weight ratings.
"The load range/ply rating branded on a tire's sidewall identifies how much load the tire is designed to carry at its industry specified pressure."
Passenger Tires
Since most P-metric passenger tires are manufactured in the standard load range, they will have nothing branded on their sidewalls or may be branded standard load and identified by an SL in their descriptions, as in P235/75R-15 SL.
Extra load P-metric tires will be branded extra load, and identified by an XL in their descriptions, as in P235/75R-15 XL.
Light load P-metric tires will be branded light load, and identified by an LL in their descriptions, as in P285/35R-19 LL.
Note: Only P-metric sized tires with 45-series aspect ratios or lower may be manufactured in a light load configuration. Light load tires are designed to carry less weight than standard load tires and have been developed for specific applications — typically when relatively large tire sizes are used as Original Equipment (O.E.) on relatively small cars or for Track & Competition DOT tires used for racing applications.
P-Metric Passenger Vehicle Tires Load Ranges Abbreviated Maximum Load Pressure Light Load LL 35 psi (240 kPa)* Standard Load Nothing or SL 35 psi (240 kPa)* Extra Load XL 41 psi (280 kPa)* *In an effort to internationally harmonize load ratings and ranges, recently introduced and future LL, SL and XL P-metric sizes will use ISO/Euro-metric maximum load pressures of 36 or 42 psi
Standard Euro-metric tires will have nothing branded on their sidewalls, while extra load/reinforced Euro-metric tires will be branded as such and identified by an XL or RF in their descriptions, as in 305/50R20 XL or 305/50R20 RF.
Euro-Mc Passenger Vehicle Tires Load Ranges Abbreviated Maximum Load Pressure Standard Load Nothing or SL 36 psi (250 kPa) Reinforced or Extra Load** RF or XL 42 psi (290 kPa) **Reinforced and extra load nomenclature may be used interchangeably to designate heavy-duty tires
Light Truck Tires
Since light truck tires are often available in multiple load ranges, the appropriate load range is identified immediately following the size's rim diameter in Tire Rack's descriptions.
LT-metric, LT-flotation and LT-numeric tires are branded with their load range (load range E or LRE) or their ply rating (10 ply rated) on their sidewalls and list their appropriate load range letter in their descriptions as LT245/75R-16 E, 7.50R-15 D or 31x10.50R-15 C. LT-sized tires featuring section widths of 305mm/12.50" or wider have their maximum loads and cold tire pressures rated at reduced maximum load pressures.
LT-Metric, LT-Flotation and LT-Numeric Light Truck Tires Load Range Ply Rating Abbreviated Maximum Load Pressure B 4 B 35 psi (240 kPa)*** C 6 C 50 psi (350 kPa)*** D 8 D 65 psi (450 kPa)*** E 10 E 80 psi (550 kPa)*** F 12 F 95 psi (650 kPa)*** ***Selected large LT sizes are designed with reduced maximum load pressures
Euro-Metric Commercial Vehicle/Van Tires Load Index Maximum Load Pounds Maximum Load Pressure 116/114 2,705/2,600 69 psi (475 kPa) 118/116 2,910/2,755 75 psi (525 kPa) 121/120 3,195/3,085 83 psi (575 kPa)
Euro-metric commercial vehicle/van tire dimensions end in a C (signifying commercial), such as 225/75R16C. Differences in load capacities and maximum pressure are identified by their load index and the maximum load/pressure for single/dual applications branded on their sidewall. The example provided above is for single/dual applications of a 225/75R16C size tire.
Special Trailer Service Tires
Special trailer service tires are often available in multiple load ranges. The appropriate load range is identified immediately following the size's rim diameter in Tire Rack's descriptions.
ST-metric sized special trailer service tires will be branded with their load range (load range D or LRD) on their sidewalls and list their appropriate load range letter in their descriptions as ST205/75R15 LRD.
ST-Metric Trailer Service Tires Load Range Ply Rating Markings Maximum Load Pressure B 4 B 35 psi (240 kPa) C 6 C 50 psi (350 kPa) D 8 D 65 psi (450 kPa) E 10 E 80 psi (550 kPa)

The explanation on the web is a little easier to read than this one.

 

[BillTheHiker]

I contacted Boise Spring Works that is the FWC installer here and they are not familiar with the plate welding you describe and they do not see why it is needed. Does this design address a known problem?

..you will need to weld plates (Go to my Gallery and review the pictures) on the frame...

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

The reason it is needed is the 2 nd gen Tacoma does not have a steel floor so there is nothing to secure the camper down to.

 

[super doody]

Not sure if you can proportionally dictated the weight rating based on PSI. The 80 PSI might just be a reference point like.

 

[BillTheHiker]

The reason it is needed is the 2 nd gen Tacoma does not have a steel floor so there is nothing to secure the camper down to.

Jim, I should have mentioned that I am having an FWC factory authorized installation. Because of the composite bed in the Tacoma, FWC provides two steel plates with pad eyes each end for the turnbuckles. They are placed near the front and rear of the truck bed and are bolted through the frame with backing plates below the frame.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Super, I came to my own conclusions on that one. I believe I reviewed my tire experience with Discount Tire and they said at that tire pressure I was fine at that camper weight.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Yes Bill that is the approved method to mount the camper part time (on/off). In our case we wanted to mount it permanently. Back in the day when we had our hard sided Lance we took it off and on because camper was too high and wide to leave it on the truck full time.A pain over time.

At age 73 removing it is too much trouble. If we need to haul something we rent a trailer or borrow a open bed pick up from a friend.

Because of the need to transport the planes to the flying field we have always needed a bed "topper". Another advantage of a FWC or ATI. Low center of gravity and low profile mean its easy to drive around on city streets. A camper that can be used for a dual purpose and is manageable in commute traffic has a lot of advantages. Based on usage - We haul the planes about 80 times per year and camp 21-28 days a year, our is used more as a transporter then a camper..

 

[Adi]

Prepping my 2004 Tacoma 4WD xtra-cab V6 truck for 4 Wheel Fleet camper installation. Stock tires were P265/70 and my local Les Schwabb put on some slightly larger Toyo AT 2 LT 265/75. Just noticed there is tremendous rub on inner wheel well (with aweful noise to boot) when steering is close to maximally turned. Heading back to store tomorrow, but do RC Pilot or others have similar experience. What are possible (and best) solutions? Thanks in advance.

 

[ETAV8R]

Do you have stock suspension?
I run 235/85/16s and they don't rub but I don't have stock suspension either.

I'll refer to the following thread on Tacoma World. Crom has done a lot to his rig and has great attention to detail. While he doesn't run a pop-up his thread is a wealth of knowledge for Tacomas.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-getaway-croms-build-and-adventures.362772/

 

[Adi]

Got 2004 4wd xtra cab tacoma stock everything right now. Les Schwab recommended downsizing to LT245/75 (Toyo AT2). Unsure advantages and disadvantages of narrower tire. Looks like only other tire option is BFG All-terrain KO2 Otherwise, maybe cut out some material to allow clearance at the maximal turn position which Les Schwab did not seem eager to do.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

When I had my first Gen 1999 Tacoma Xcab, 4WD I ran 31x10.50x15 tires and had no clearance problems. I recall that Bridgestone Duelers were not available in a metric size towards the end of its life with me (around 2010).

Generally I run the stock size half and inch higher for the ground clearance. ( 75 instead of 70). Never had any problems.

With the Fleet you will need air bags or heavier springs to provide necessary ground clearance. In the picture below you will see it riding well. on a custom 5 rear spring set.

 

[zoie]

Got 2004 4wd xtra cab tacoma stock everything right now. Les Schwab recommended downsizing to LT245/75 (Toyo AT2). Unsure advantages and disadvantages of narrower tire. Looks like only other tire option is BFG All-terrain KO2 Otherwise, maybe cut out some material to allow clearance at the maximal turn position which Les Schwab did not seem eager to do.

i tried a bigger tire on my 2003 tacoma and ran into the same problem. some guys crimp, mash or cut off the the fender crimp weld inside the fender to get them to fit but that didn't seem worth it to me. Plus you might have to deal with inaccurate speedometer readings. I went back on the factory size which is 265/70/16. It's about the same size as 31/10.5/15 which I have on my 1992 toyota pickup. Search the tacomaworld.com forum for first gen tacomas to get a better idea if needed. Tacomaworld also has a tire size calculator that gives you the sizes of different tire dimensions.https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc

 

[izzy1554]

I have a 2011 Reg Cab 4cyl 4x4 5spd and I've been wanting a fleet FWC shell or a Bobcat ATC shell. Can my truck handle these shells with some upgrades?

update:

disregard, I figured out the search function.

somebody mentioned a regear. you think its do able?

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

This topic for the researcher needs to be revisited also.

 

[btbaker22]

We’ve installed our campers on Tacos using the Hellwig 1906 progressive leaf spring pack, and have seen good results. Paired with rear sway bar, and new shocks all around the drive is better with the camper on or off the truck.

 

[windy]

We’ve installed our campers on Tacos using the Hellwig 1906 progressive leaf spring pack, and have seen good results. Paired with rear sway bar, and new shocks all around the drive is better with the camper on or off the truck.

IMG_4086.JPG

Sorry to hijack the thread but I got to know....Is that a GZL? How long have you had it and how do you like it?