Truck Help, Diesel Necessary?

[tstumpfig]

I've recently landed a loaded Hawk and currently have it sitting on a 2002 Sierra 1500 w/airbags. During our first trip, my fiance and I, plus our gear, NO water in the Hawk, we're at 400 lbs over our GVWR, according to the scale at the dump. We knew we were pushing it so we opted for not filling during this trip, just carried a 5 gal jug. The 1500 drives around no problem , but the sway and taking it down some dirt roads definitely makes me nervous.

Anyways looking to upgrade to a 3/4 ton and my price range puts me in a Gasser with 125-200k miles, or a diesel with 200k+ miles (year 2000-2008ish). The Hawk will live on the truck as we'll definitely use it year round.

Main question: Does the fact that the camper will live on the truck make a diesel the better choice?

 

[steve whiteside]

https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/17723-12-ton-or-34-ton-what-are-most-people-using-for-their-fwc/page-4


Some good info above. If you go with diesel stay away from the 6.0 ford. I had a 2004 and that engine had inherent issues. Apparently can be fixed but you would want to make sure that any 6.0 was fixed correctly before you bought it.

I think the bottom line is that you don't need a diesel for these campers. Might be nice but given everything else not anywhere near mandatory. I think the initial cost of the diesel along with increased maintenance costs - you will never make up the savings in mpg. I think where diesel really shines if you need the torque for say a 10,000 pound trailer going up a hill. THAT is when you lean hard to diesel. just my .02.

Steve

 

[Vic Harder]

I had a 2002 Sierra 3/4 ton 8.1L gasser, switched to 2006 Silverado 1 ton diesel, to carry my Puma/Grandby. Both have enough power to pass up steep hills. Gasser got 10 mpg empty, loaded, driving slow or driving like a maniac. Diesel gets 18 mpg avg with the camper on, even better unloaded.

Both trucks handle a FWC/ATC easily.

Regarding sway, are your airbags plumbed separately? If not, air can move side to side and make sway MUCH worse. A BIG rear sway bar helps a lot too.

 

[Jon R]

I would suggest you consider buying a one ton rather than 3/4 ton, especially in an older truck. Your load is going to be 2000 to 2500 lbs. My older 3/4 ton truck can carry that fine, but not as easily as I'd want for off road or for very long highway trips.

I agree with Steve about diesel vs gas. I just ordered a new GMC 3500HD with the gas engine. The highest load I ever expect to carry/pull would be a Grandby in the bed and an 8000lb boat/trailer on the hitch. I clearly don't need diesel to haul the camper alone. The boat trailer would be hauled only in the Pacific NW, so nothing over 4000 feet and usually just over the hills to the coast from the Seattle area. The gas truck is rated to pull 14,500 lbs. I was only able to test drive empty trucks, but after reviewing specs and youtube videos of people doing towing demonstrations on the highway with big climbs, I don't need the diesel for my expected towing with the camper in the bed.

 

[Kolockum]

The only reason I think for going diesel is if you wanted to install a diesel furnace, which by everything I have heard are much nicer than the propane ones.

Depending on where you live the engine will probably outlive the chassis and moving the components (ball joints, bushings, bearings etc.). Less miles on the chassis would trump fuel type for me.

This is kind of out there and WAY over kill but I am finding F450 and F550s for about the same price or even lower than F-350 diesels with the same or lower mileage. They actually have a much tighter turn radius than the F-350. And in most states if you bolt your camper to the chassis you can register it as a RV. The only downsides are they only come with a dually in the rear (can do super single conversion) and most of the trucks are basic models.

 

[muttmaster]

There are plenty of Hawk being carried on Tacoma that has less carrying capacity than a Sierra 1500. You shouldn’t need a 3/4 or a one ton truck for your Hawk as suggested. I would go with add a leaf and better shock and sway bar first. Wider and more macho tires will help too with sway. Shaky and nervous on dirt roads? But isn’t that 1/2 of the fun? maybe you need four wheel drive and get out of the city more often.
As for going to diesel, which I do have for my Grandby, best decision I ever made with going to 3/4 ton. Lot LESS maintenance, not more as some claim. Lot more power for hills and towing plus downhill engine braking when needed. My duramax had 200k when I got it, just broken in. Had to redo front end everything, but very reliable. Buy a older gasser over 150k? Better prepare for mechanic’s bills.

 

[camper rich]

I have a Dodge 2500 with 5.7 V8 for my Grandby. Bought it new in '08 when they couldn't give them away, for $28K, and it came with a lifetime drivetrain warranty. It's been a good truck, having made 10 trips to Baja. That plus the 3 for $90 oil changes from the dealer more than make up for gas mileage of a Diesel, plus both my wife and I hate the diesel smell and noise. If you think generators are anoying, try the guy who warms up his diesel at 6 am next to you in a campground.

As far as a 1 ton, my 3/4 does all I ask with just a set of Timbrens on all four wheels and good shocks. I even tow my Ruger trailer with my blow-up boat and 15 hp Honda motor all over Baja. Did I mention the kayaks on the roof? With a 1 ton you could carry even more, but I don't have that much stuff. You might need a 1 ton if you go diesel due to the weight of the engine. Diesels do go faster up the hills.

 

[tstumpfig]

@Vic: Airbags are plumbed separately, took a while to get them balanced right with a bike pump lol

There are plenty of Hawk being carried on Tacoma that has less carrying capacity than a Sierra 1500. You shouldn’t need a 3/4 or a one ton truck for your Hawk as suggested. I would go with add a leaf and better shock and sway bar first. Wider and more macho tires will help too with sway. Shaky and nervous on dirt roads? But isn’t that 1/2 of the fun? maybe you need four wheel drive and get out of the city more often.
As for going to diesel, which I do have for my Grandby, best decision I ever made with going to 3/4 ton. Lot LESS maintenance, not more as some claim. Lot more power for hills and towing plus downhill engine braking when needed. My duramax had 200k when I got it, just broken in. Had to redo front end everything, but very reliable. Buy a older gasser over 150k? Better prepare for mechanic’s bills.

Ha, I'm out of the city using four-wheel drive often, but new to doing it with a camper and overweight truck (or maybe i'm just not used to it), but it doesn't feel totally safe to me. I'm in the camp of just going for a truck that's built to do what i need it to, trying to avoid band-aid type upgrades.

Appreciate the input, I kinda fell into the rabbit hole when looking to upgrade thinking "why don't I just got for a diesel?" Coming to realize that is far from necessary, not going to be towing any significant weight anytime soon (but it would be preeetty sweet to have one). Probably try to hone in on a gasser and save a few bucks. Thanks for bringing me back! (for now)

 

[Happyjax]

I had the same conundrum when buying my truck for my camper to come. I weighed the options and weight was a big factor. Diesel not only added $9000 to the cost of the vehicle it added 500 lbs of weight. That made the option of a 3/4 become 1 ton. I just didn't feel what I was carrying justified that.

The problem with getting the older vehicles with the pre DEF engines was though the engine might be great the rest of the truck was gonna need a lot of upkeep.

I'm happy with my 6.2 gasser though the diesel was fun to drive....lotsa torque, lotsa weight, lotsa money

YMMV Good luck!

 

[MikeR]

My recommendation would be to contact a suspension/spring shop in your area, not a 4X4 shop that sells aftermarket springs. They can make up new spring packs for your rig which will greatly increase your hauling capacity for a very reasonable cost. Be sure to contact a couple of them to make sure your getting a good price. If you are looking to save money this should be your best option. As was previously posted this campers are on Tacomas all over the place. A nation wide company is General Spring if you want to go the DIY route

 

[idahoron]

I've recently landed a loaded Hawk and currently have it sitting on a 2002 Sierra 1500 w/airbags. During our first trip, my fiance and I, plus our gear, NO water in the Hawk, we're at 400 lbs over our GVWR, according to the scale at the dump. We knew we were pushing it so we opted for not filling during this trip, just carried a 5 gal jug. The 1500 drives around no problem , but the sway and taking it down some dirt roads definitely makes me nervous.

Anyways looking to upgrade to a 3/4 ton and my price range puts me in a Gasser with 125-200k miles, or a diesel with 200k+ miles (year 2000-2008ish). The Hawk will live on the truck as we'll definitely use it year round.

Main question: Does the fact that the camper will live on the truck make a diesel the better choice?

Here are some questions. Your current truck has air bags.
How are the lines plumed for the bags? Do you have one valve to put the air in the bags or do you have two?
What PSI are you running in the bags?
What is the rating on your tires?

 

[tstumpfig]

Here are some questions. Your current truck has air bags.
How are the lines plumed for the bags? Do you have one valve to put the air in the bags or do you have two?
What PSI are you running in the bags?
What is the rating on your tires?

Separate, 2 valve
40-50 ish.
E rated

 

[Cottonww]

My son has a half-ton rated Tundra with a Hawk, no sway plenty of power.

Regarding diesel, been there done that. Loved the turbo diesel with a large Hallmark with bathroom etc, going up the Colorado passes.

Problem: wife hated the noise and smell; cold weather starting; oil changes are expensive with that large oil reservoir and need to be changed more frequently that gaser; in Colorado diesels have to have emissions tests every year. Altogether I found diesel far more expensive to operate per mile that gaser.

 

[heinphoto]

We ended up purchasing an F350 with the 6.2L gas engine for many of the same reasons mentoned already. The 6.2L works fine with our fully-loaded Grandby even going over mountain passes in the Sierra. So, no regrets skipping the extra cost, complexity, and weight of the diesel. However, the one thing I am envious of is the diesel gas mileage and the extra range you have as a result.

 

[idahoron]

Separate, 2 valve
40-50 ish.
E rated

I am surprised that you have sway. I have two valves/ I'm only running 20 to 30 PSI in my bags, and 55 to 60 PSI in my tires. On my 05 Tundra I have no sway that you are talking about.

 

[OutToLunch]

I have an ATC Ocelot on a 2013 Ford F-150 with a 3.7 liter engine. Wasn’t thinking camper when I bought it. I was thinking firewood, manure for garden, lumber, etc. However, it works fine with the Ocelot, has enough power. I get about 16 mpg with camper on for trips. We’re probably at payload, though.

We have kicked around the idea of “moving up” to a 3/4 or one ton for more payload until I looked at specs of new trucks. Payloads and horsepower for gas half tons have increased dramatically. For example, one version of the 2021 F150 with the 3.7 ecoboost engine (500 lb ft of torque) has a payload of 3,250 lbs. Crazy. Not buying at this time. I tend to keep vehicles for at least a decade though my around town vehicle is a 04.

 

[Beach]

I started with my Hawk full time on a 1st gen Tundra 4.0 V-6 motor(drove it 3 years). Now on a F250 4x4 6.2 gasser. Much better handling and braking is very good. Lost about 1 mpg(little 6 cyl was working hard), I gladly accept that loss of mileage for what I gained. I looked at 3/4 ton diesels, crunched the numbers; up front cost, expensive oil changes, fuel costs/savings, 5-6k miles usage per year and found the diesel payoff was at about 210-220 miles. So unless you need/want all the extra power stay with gas(my 2 cents). Having said all that, there are 1/2 ton trucks with payload packages and better mileage figures, that will do the job too. What pressure do you run your tires at? I typically run 65 front-70 rear, not just for the load but it reduces sidewall flex contributing to less sway.

 

[Vic Harder]

@Vic: Airbags are plumbed separately, took a while to get them balanced right with a bike pump lol



Ha, I'm out of the city using four-wheel drive often, but new to doing it with a camper and overweight truck (or maybe i'm just not used to it), but it doesn't feel totally safe to me. I'm in the camp of just going for a truck that's built to do what i need it to, trying to avoid band-aid type upgrades.

Appreciate the input, I kinda fell into the rabbit hole when looking to upgrade thinking "why don't I just got for a diesel?" Coming to realize that is far from necessary, not going to be towing any significant weight anytime soon (but it would be preeetty sweet to have one). Probably try to hone in on a gasser and save a few bucks. Thanks for bringing me back! (for now)

The other thing that had me going diesel is the driving range. How far out can I go? If you are thinking Alaska, longer range is a good thing. The truck gets better fuel economy than most, plus I can get a 62 gal aftermarket tank that fits under the bed of the truck

 

[Cottonww]

Regarding sway, none of us mentioned tires. What do you have for tires? I had sway and put BFG 10 ply tires on my rig. No sway!
10 ply is essential for carrying a camper.

 

[tstumpfig]

The other thing that had me going diesel is the driving range. How far out can I go? If you are thinking Alaska, longer range is a good thing. The truck gets better fuel economy than most, plus I can get a 62 gal aftermarket tank that fits under the bed of the truck

The range advantage is definitely the most intriguing part of a diesel to me