truck suspension upgrade

[JHanson]

I've driven Tom's truck and it rides superbly. However, his camper is on all the time. I can't imagine a set of leaf springs that could retain remotely similar ride characteristics with a 1,000-pound difference in load.

 

[ntsqd]

I've never been faced with the possibility of needing a helper spring on any of my own vehicles, but I'm not a fan of mixing types of springs. They have different rate changes within the travel range which makes getting the damping curve correct pretty much impossible. Learned this with a late model D-Max truck. Added coil-over's to it and tried to leave the t-bars in place per the customer's request. We could never get the shock valving to work right with both and ended up removing the t-bars.

I'd much rather make mods to bring the O/L leaf into play earlier.

 

[sourdough]

I had an air bag failure which was going to strand me in Montrose,Co. a few days waiting for a replacement bag. I opted for same day repairs by dumping the bags and having a Roadmaster Active Suspension installed. I'm not going back to air bags. IMHO, Rubber is fine for tires but not as a major suspension component. I am back on good old steel.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Well, I hate to be the poster boy for blown air bags, but I did pop one. I've posted about it before, so I'll try to be brief. I believe the failure was caused when the lower bracket jumped forward along the springs, causing the bag to rub and burst. I think I caused it by over-inflating the bags (90psi), while loaded to the hilt (5 gals gas., 2 bikes, 1 hi-lift: hanging beyond rear bumper) with a week of food, water and fuel onboard. The straw that broke the camel's back was South Pass on Saline V. Rd. with a sharp, cross-road dip that I tried to bounce with a bit of momentum.

I'm still a believer, short of respringing the truck. Since I run w/o camper 90% of the time, the bags make sense for me.

Agree with Lighthawk here-did it three times before I got smart & I went to a blacksmith who made me super springs that converted my 1/2 F150 into a 3/4 ton (recommemended by my local ford dealer) & we tell all about it in a earlier thread. Been real happy with my 3/4 ton springs- should have done it first--or maybe bought an f250!

Smoke

 

[ckent323]

I have a 1993 Dodge W250 ClubCab Diesel. The ride has always been a bit rough and the front springs are now showing signs of age (starting to go convex). I have been looking at options and I have decided to replace my front springs.

Alcan Springs, Custom Springs and Deavers Springs are three outfits that I have found favorable reviews on based on a fair amount of web searching. They all build springs to order so you can tell them what vehicle you have and what you carry (weight) and how you will use it and they will help you specify a spring set or you can just specify on your own springs. Most reviewers claim these springs are a big improvement over stock springs. I have also read this is a better path to improved performance than adding extra springs or airbags (without cost consideration in comparison).

New front leaf springs for my truck will run on the order of $500 - $600. The rear leaf springs for my truck (not needed - yet) cost more like $1000 or perhaps a bit more. I like the truck and plan to keep it a long time so I am going to replace the springs as I see that as a long term quality upgrade path. This is a viable option for me but others will undoubtedly have different needs and cost may be a bigger decision influence.

Regards,

Craig

 

[Den]

I have had air bags on my 2006 Tundra for two years. FWC Hawk . Twice I have had the right side bolts break. After the first time we replaced the stock bolts with higher schedule bolts. The truck is driven carefully when off road. This time when the bolts broke the bracket broke too. Air bags forced the bracket into the tire and blew the rear tire. this has also happened to my son in laws tundra. Same Rig. Because of the road situation we could not jack the truck to fix the problem. I had to call a tow truck to get us. seven hundred dollars later I pulled the tire removed the air bag and broken bracket. My wife and I travel by our selves often. I loved the way the bags worked , but just not worth the risk for me. I am not worried about the ride, just carring the weight. Any suggestions? The bags were put on by a local off road dealer so it should not have been workmanship.

 

[Captm]

Den,
If your located I SoCal drive over to Deaver Springs and let them get you squared away. If either of the other two that Bill mentioned are in driving distance go with them. On the phone is fine but personally I prefer face to face and watching the install. Cost will vary depending on your requirements however it the peace of mind will be priceless.
Cheers

 

[Den]

Captm, Thanks for the reply.
I can't find the "Bill" reply that you are refering to. i do live in SoCal, Del Mar. I would not hesitate to drive to Santa Ana for a quaality fix Thanks !!

 

[Captm]

Sorry I meant Craig

 

[stclair]

I dealt with Jeff at Deaver. Really nice and helpful guy.

 

[ejwabqnm]

Having spent hours worrying about carrying the load (ATC Bobcat and Toyota Tacoma) I did the install of new rear suspension. I put in toytec boss leaf springs and 5100 bilsteins. I am having the shop install the front shocks, but did the rest myself. Not bad if you have a decent set of tools. The difference was tremendous. I got a two inch lift off the springs and with the camper on it is dead level with plenty of suspension left. I am going to split the middle on the front and lift it an inch with the adjustable 5100s. I had tried Roadmasters but the springs were just too weak. In terms of just material, the stock springs look puny and pathetic compared to toytecs. They are also a good local company with great customer service.

 

[Den]

CAPTM, I took your advice and ordered Deavers. Had them put on by Off Road Warehouse San Diego. The mechanic that did the work came out and was the first to say he did not like way it was setting. We put the leveling blocks back in and still did not like what we had. Off Road called Deaver and explained the situation. Deaver said if I would drive up they would take care of the situation. I called, made an appointment. In at 8:30, talked to Jeff about the situation, explined I was interested in carring the camper not the ride. Out by 10:30. the truck looked great sitting perfect. I got ready to pay and they quickly said " you have already paid". "When you order Deaver spring, we get it right" If that is not first class service in today"s world I give up. I have sice sent three trucks to Deaver. My Truck rides and carries the weight with out a problem. Thaks for the advice!!

 

[Stromtrooper]

I started a thread on this, but simply asked: Should / can I add Ride rite to my existing helper springs? I have a pretty bad bucking going on when I driveth on concrete segmented highways. 2007 Tacoma 2007 4WC Eagle. Thanks!

 

[ntsqd]

Sounds to me like you have too much spring rate now. That is typical of helper springs. If you add air springs I suggest that you remove the helper springs.

 

[JHanson]

I started a thread on this, but simply asked: Should / can I add Ride rite to my existing helper springs? I have a pretty bad bucking going on when I drive on concrete segmented highways. 2007 Tacoma 2007 4WC Eagle. Thanks!

This sounds to me like a lack of shock control. I also agree with ntsqd.

 

[Ace!]

The bucking is a difficult thing to overcome because (from my experience) the segments are timed in such a way that when there is traffic you hit them at speed that allow your vehicle to almost harmonize with them, or really, not harmonize with them. If you hit them faster it's just a clunk, clunk, clunk noise as opposed to the bucking you see at slower speeds. They are almost like a mini-whoops section off road.

In basic terms, springs hold up weight and shocks control the ride. Shocks shouldn't really even be called shocks, they should be called dampers (again, in my opinion). So, you pick a spring(s) that holds the weight at the appropriate ride height, given the weight you want to carry (but in this case, think weight, not height). Then, once that has been determined, you get dampers that are tuned to the driving conditions (springs for the weight and dampers for the conditions).

Problem with that is most people think of ride height only, not spring rate based on weight. They aren't thinking about the weight of the vehicle (weight above the springs, or sprung), they are only thinking about height. You can get there with a lot of different rates based on spring design. A lot of people get to the height with a heavier weight spring, but that usually creates a situation where the spring rate overcomes the effectiveness of the damper. The spring won't flex so the damper has limited usefulness, or once it flexes it wants to almost "snap" back.

Also, most shocks are not tuned for conditions. This is really the driver's preference issue though, because drivers will commute on the freeway for two hours a day, then on the weekend want to run around Ensenada off road and wonder why the vehicle wants to go sideways around washboard corners. Then they buy dampers for washboard that don't dampen well in a rock garden or are overcome by springs that are too stiff.

Bottom line is it is all a compromise. You're probably going to buck on an LA freeway, or you're going to have issues with traction off road, or you're going to think your truck rides too much like a truck. It's damned near impossible to purchase one set of springs or one set of dampers that do everything well. Best to do as much figuring as you can based on what you do most of the time and see what other people are having good luck with. You have to put up with the parts you don't like about compromising (with most off the shelf, bolt-on parts).

I really wish that manufacturers made their product specs better known (even if most people didn't understand them or skimmed over them). Seems like it's all about ride height with spring manufacturers instead of spring rate, and all about one-size fits all with shocks instead of compression/rebound high-speed low-speed damping/valving.

 

[PaulT]

Just order up a set of magneto rheological shock absorbers. That solves the problem.

Just need a DOD-like budget, I guess.
Paul

 

[Stromtrooper]

I'm actually "that guy" who wants city handling + Baja powers! Anybody else?

 

[Stromtrooper]

Just order up a set of magneto rheological shock absorbers. That solves the problem.

Just need a DOD-like budget, I guess.
Paul

we passed a hummer stuck on Slickrock trail in a gulch in Moab in a crappy '86 toyota. Hummers need all the help they can get on and offroad, HA! Cool shocks tho!

 

[ntsqd]

I'm actually "that guy" who wants city handling + Baja powers! Anybody else?

Audi and others have used damper fluids that vary their viscosity with either a current or an applied voltage. How much $$ do you have? It's likely not enough. The next closest will be to build in both position sensitive valving and velocity sensitive valving. And that will still not be inexpensive.
Which begs the question, how much do you want to beat on your camper? When they say "off-road capable" I don't think that they had pre-running the B1k in mind.