Turnbuckle Question

[idahoron]

I have running mine for 4 years off road and have never loosened. I trust a lock nut 1000x more than a plastic zip tie.I have seen plenty of those zip ties that are brittle and shatter. Lock nuts get to the heart of the issue. If they loosen up then you need to improve your wrist strength.

 

[PaulT]

Anyone try Nylock nuts for the jam nut?

Paul

 

[nikonron]

I tried nylok nuts, they also didn't hold. My problem is I can't get two hands in there to jam the nuts properly. Ron

 

[ntsqd]

Ozone will still work on the plastic. I think it's a simple and easy solution for your layout, I'd just caution that they be checked or even replaced annually.

 

[nikonron]

Stainless steel tie wire would solve the problem also. Ron

 

[Old Crow]

I put zip ties on mine last September after reading about someone losing a turnbuckle entirely. I figured one tie or the other would at least keep the turnbuckle in the truck and was curious whether they'd also resist turning.

I initially put in small zip ties but then happened onto the 18"-long by 5/16" wide ones at Lowe's and found them easier to install than the smaller ones (they can be installed with one hand). They supposedly have a 'weight rating' of 175 pounds but who knows what that means. In any case, I thought they'd be useful for visual checks, i.e. to see if they twist up or break.

So far I've not seen any changes but I'm also not stressing them. I've not been anywhere rough since adding them.

When I first got the camper I had (minor) problems with the turnbuckles loosening but after installing a mat and deciding to tighten them a bit more, I didn't find loose turnbuckles nearly so often. In other words, I'm not a great test case for zip ties as an anti-turn solution but like having them for the visual check (and as a leash for the turnbuckle).

Here's a photo of one just before I clipped off the end...

 

[Squatch]

Zip ties are my life. I just retired from the phone company. They are great but they are NOT safety wire. Fine as an Indicator as mentioned above. But twisting on a sharp turnbuckle will cut them easily. Also note that the ones that are sold at chain stores are pretty junky and have a short life when exposed to UV.

Lock nuts may not be perfect and it's hard to get both hands in there to tighten them. 9/16 wrench on the nut and a large adjustable wrench to hold the turnbuckle works well.

I don't feel the turnbuckles provided with my camper are high end at all. A better quality turnbuckle would probably help.

The one thing that no one is talking about is regular inspections. If you have your camper on full time or for extended periods and don't check the tightness regularly then you have way more faith than I do.

I can access the rear ones on my camper from the back of the truck. Enough so that I can reach in at gas stops and give them a feel.

 

[nikonron]

An upgrade to forged turnbuckles is a big improvement itself. I regularly inspect mine while I'm out traveling. Just one quick jolt on the ones that Four Wheel uses and they do snap, really doesn't take much to do that. No real pressure needed on the zipties to keep the center of that turnbuckle from wanting to turn. No sharp edges for mine to rub on..And yes the larger zipties are best. Had a friend who also worked at the phone company, they do have real zipties. Ron

 

[BillTheHiker]

So where can I buy high quality zip ties if the ones in chain stores are junky? What brand is recommended?

 

[nikonron]

I'd say electrical supply store. May also check Grainger or McMaster Carr. Ron

 

[RONR]

This is a great thread. Apparently there really is more than one way to skin a cat...or turnbuckle. When I first got my camper, I checked the buckles after the first couple hundred of miles and they were fine. But since then, there have been a few times that they have been loose, but I've never had one unhook. Still, I check them all the time now so I'd like some piece of mind. I've driven for hours on wash board (stutter bumps as my dad called 'em) and I think my truck/camper will never be the same after all those miles of rattling. I think I'll try Ron's zip ties first as it seems pretty easy to do. I'll go from there with some of the other ideas. There are some ties on Amazon that I'd be happy to share, but for some reason, I can't paste anything I copy onto WTW. They are called buycableties 22" HD (250lb) ties.

Ron

 

[dharte]

So I guess my Harbor Freight zip ties won't cut it.... I'm going to try both the zip ties (good ones) and blue loctite. If that doesn't work I'll get better turnbuckles. Is the weak link the turnbuckle or the attachment point on the camper?

 

[Stalking Light]

I think you want the weak link to be the turnbuckle otherwise any failures will be on the camper or on the truck. This is not to say you want weak turnbuckles only that the attachment points should be stronger than the turnbuckles.

 

[BillTheHiker]

I do not have a ratcheting open end wrench, but would it work for tightening the turnbuckle where it is not possible to access the turnbuckle with both hands? And would it provide adequate torque? My problem is the access space in the forward port is so small I just cannot get enough torque by hand. I cannot even get a large enough screw driver in there.

Tacoma + Fleet

 

[ntsqd]

So where can I buy high quality zip ties if the ones in chain stores are junky? What brand is recommended?

Thomas & Betts is one of the best brand of wire-ties/zip-ties available in the U.S. Might find them on amazon or a simple search should turn up options.

The amount of torque available to loosen a turn-buckle isn't huge. Other than the environmental aspects I see no reason why they can't be a permanent solution. As it is I think they an easy, annual solution.
I use Safety Wire because my access is easy, but if it were not I'd be trying the wire-ties. I'm also well familiar with using Safety Wire from my race prep days. BTW, these make working with Safety Wire a whole lot easier: https://www.harborfreight.com/9-inch-safety-wire-twisting-pliers-45341.html I have a mil-spec expensive pair of these and two of these HF sets, hard pressed to tell the difference in use.

If you change to turnbuckles with clevis ends the whole 'hook straightening out and getting lost' spiral goes away. BUT as I recently learned if the cotter pin evaporates the pin can slip out and cause nearly the same trouble. Something worked against the cotter pin enough to straighten it and it popped out. The pins are now Safety Wired in place.

Given my ease of access I don't use anything to tighten the front turnbuckles. I can reach them standing next to the truck bed. If you had a straight shot at them I don't think much more than max hand-tight is needed. Without an easy, straight shot I'd compensate accordingly.

 

[Squatch]

So where can I buy high quality zip ties if the ones in chain stores are junky? What brand is recommended?

Electrical supply house is a good place. Thomas and Betts are the best. Do a web search for them.

Check this page of my build thread. It has pics of both my locknuts and the SAFETY CHAINS I installed in case something does let go. Easy to do. I intend to upgrade the rear mounts and add safety chains there as well.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/12441-rice-build-thread/page-5

 

[XJINTX]

Now safety chain(s) is a good idea for that warm fuzzy feeling. I'm going to see if I have room

 

[Squatch]

I was thinking about this thread yesterday as I mounted my camper in the truck.

I think for those that have access problems I would try a quality wingnut and a split lock washer for a locknut. Even tightened by hand this should be better than no locknut.

All the zip tie talk reminded me that I have a few massive cable ties. These are big and strong enough that I would probably trust them to hold anything that I'd trust to the factory turnbuckles. Think the steel packing straps they use around lumber bundles and pallets only plastic. I think I'll throw a couple in the camper in case of emergency. If I had to I could probably use one for a temporary replacement for a broken turnbuckle.

 

[nikonron]

Squatch, I'm just useing zipties to keep the turnbuckles from spinning, there is no actual load on them what so ever. I also tried the wing nut approach, didn't hold either. It's the harmonic vibration of a wash board road that will make them loosen. Ron

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Ron, Squatch: you can get wing nuts with a hole for safety wire in one of the wings. A bit of .020 safety wire will be bullet proof against loosening.