Upgrading my solar

[captainphx]

I had started another thread about lithium Ion batteries, and decided not to go that route, hence this new thread.

I have a 2012 Raven with an 85 watt solar panel and a Dometic 110 with two group 27 AGM's (That are now dead...again). I have had extreme difficulty keeping my batteries charged while out camping. As I was removing the batteries I noticed a water leak. The leak was in the water tank itself. I removed the water tank. So, I have the camper pretty torn up right now, so I thought it would be a good time to redo my solar system.

First thing I did was upgrade my original 10 AWG FWC wiring from the truck to the camper to 6 AWG. Thanks to DavidO for helping me with that!

This is what I am planning on ordering next.

1) Bogarts PWM SC2030 charge controller and the Trimetric TM2030A
2) Blue Sea ML-ACR
3) Zamp 160 watt 12V solar panel
4) 2 new AGM's (Crown?)
5) wiring for a portable solar panel

Been doing lots of research trying to get myself up to speed. I am not an electrical whiz, I think I can handle this, but does anyone see anything wrong with this equipement so far?

I would like to have more solar up top, rather than use a portable, but it seems that the 160 watt is about all I can get on my roof. I plan on removing the 85 watt. My roof has Yakima tracks, which I plan on using to mount the new panel, but I also have 2 Fantastic vents and a luggage rack.



I could attach a second panel to the top of the luggage rack, but that is to the rear of the roof and thus would add weight to the rear and make it more difficult to lift. And as it is right now, I can just clear the garage door by 1/2 inch. As a last resort I could remove the luggage rack, or at least the top part of it. Anyone see another way to add more watts to the roof? Otherwise, I'll have to rely on the portable, although we usually never stay in one place very long.

The Zamp 160 watt is quite expensive, $500. Not sure why. Other panels are quite a bit less expensive, around $200. What's the difference. Any recommendations?

Another view of rear part of roof.

 

[Vic Harder]

Captainphx,

Your list of gear looks good. $500 for 160W is crazy expensive. http://www.backwoodssolar.com/ has panels for about $1/watt.

First question is how much power draw do you have? What are you running off the batteries?
Next, how long are you parked in any one spot? Do you have sunshine where you park, or do you park in the shade?

Knowing those two things will help determine the AH of the batteries you get. Crown is a good brand. Are you looking for maintenance free AGM or are you inclined to check specific gravity and add water once a month? Flooded batteries are way cheaper, but you do have to vent the battery box to the outside.

Assuming AGM, you can drain those down to 50% or so before really starting to affect their lifespan.

Since you are upgrading the wiring from the truck and getting the ACR (not really necessary if you have already upgraded the wiring - see posts by Ronanmd1 to this effect) you might be able to get the batteries back up to 80% or so within an hour or two of driving.


Have you looked at the thread I started a while back while contemplating my solar build? LINK

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Captain,
My 2 cents.

Zamp is the very best with a price to match.

We are very happy with our Renogy 150 watt, We park our rig under a carport. The solar panel gets reflected light off the neighbors roof which easily maintains the percentage of full at 98% or higher in the winter.

The panel - cost $200. weight 26 pounds. It puts out 5.5 amps in December and 9.1 amps in June. We currently use the 10 amp MorningStar controller with no problems.

You may need 200 watts or more especially if you camp in the winter time because of the 40% loss of output . You need generate enough amps to run the fridge AND charge the battery.

Dr.J has the 110 liter Dometic. PM him and get his input.

Battery

What is killing your batteries is discharging them below 12 volts consistently.Your charging problems are caused by the amp draw of the 110 Dometic which is at least 5 amps an hour and maybe higher vs the output of the 85 watt panel which is around 5 amps in June and probably 3 amps in December.( you will lose 40% of the output in December because you cant aim the panel at the sun).

We have one 79 amp hour - HD Deep Cycle AGM from East Penn Manufacturing. Group 24M Model 8A24M."Intimidator" Click on the link to see the specs. That was the battery Four Wheel sold in 2012. The guarantee was 24 months East Penn plus an extra 12 months from Four Wheel. Battery lasted 40 months.

When I researched a replacement I decided to stick with East Penn because they are manufactured in USA and gave me good service, . Many of the well known brands are now owned by one company and 85% of them are manufactured in Mexico. which has had quality problems.

When you get your Trimetric installed and view the amp draw from the Dometic compressor fridge you will be surprised at how high it is.

I would also replace the friction connector on the roof as I was experiencing intermittant loss of connectivity. The wire nuts give you a solid connection in a water=proof box,

Click on the link below my signature. Go to page 15 #'s 137 and 140 for pictures and instructions on the wire nuts and enclosure to hold it.

Good luck on your project you will be happy with the results,

 

[takesiteasy]

I bought a 160 watt panel for $115 from Solar Boulevard: https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_269&products_id=2868&osCsid=8ab7d7fc8fc992c29890231810dc0632

It worked great on our recent trip to Utah- easily charged up our Trojan 110 ah AGM battery during the day. We used the battery to run the fridge and a cpap machine at night with the heated humidifier.

Here is my build thread: http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/13117-another-solar-project/
Blog writeup here: http://travelswithrockythedog.blogspot.com/2016/09/solar-power.html

 

[billharr]

I have had good luck with panels from SolarBlvd. 160w now $115 Panel long enough to reach your tracks.

If I was starting new I might go to a 24v panel, you will get more power through the 10 gauge wire from the roof. Would require a MTTP controller. 250w 24v panel $162


EDIT: JUST GOT AN EMAIL FROM SOLARBLVD. BLACK FRIDAY SALE. 160w panel will be $109 on Friday.



***DISCOUNTED Prices Will Take Effect On
BLACK FRIDAY!!***

Solar Cynergy 80 Watt
12 Volt Solar Panel

ONLY $49.99 [SIZE=10pt](.62/Watt)[/SIZE]

(Regular Price: $104)




Manufacturer: Solar Cynergy
Cells: Q-Cells

Model Name: SLP80-12
Max Power: 80 W
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 21.0V
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 5.36A
Optimum Operating Current (Imp): 4.65A
Optimum Operating Volatage (Vmp): 17.0V
Dimensions (inches): 39 x 20 x 1.33
Weight: 15lbs

Solar Cynergy 100 Watt
12 Volt Solar Panel


ONLY $72[SIZE=11pt] (.72/Watt) (Regular Price: $125)

Manufacturer: Solar Cynergy[/SIZE]

Model Name: PV-SC100J12
Number of Cells: 36 cells in a series
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 21.0V
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 6.30A
Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp): 17.0V
Maximum Power Current (Imp): 5.80A
Weight: 25.35 pounds
Dimensions (inches): 43.54 x 26.22 x 1.38"

Flexible Solar Cynergy 120 Watt 12V Solar Panel


ONLY $119 [SIZE=11pt](.99/Watt) [/SIZE]
(Regular Price: $159)


Manufacturer: Solar Cynergy
Electrical Data
Maximum Power Output: 120 Watts
Max Operating Voltage (Vmp): 19.8 V
Max Operating Current (Imp): 6.36 A
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 20.6 Volts
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 6.06 Amps
Dimensions: 46.5 in × 21.3 in × 0.1 in
Weight: 5 lbs

Solar Cynergy 160 Watt
12 Volt Mono Solar Panel


ONLY $109 [SIZE=10pt](.68/Watt) [/SIZE]
(Regular Price: $165)


Manufacturer: Solar Cynergy
Electrical Data
Maximum Power Output: 160 Watts
Max Operating Voltage (Vmp): 18.73 Volts
Max Operating Current (Imp): 8.62 Amps
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 23.2 Volts
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 8.95 Amps
Module Efficiency: 14.70%

Dimensions: 58.31 in × 26.22 in × 1.38 in
Weight: 33 lbs

Solarworld 235 Watt (Silver/White Model) 24V Solar Panel


$139 Ea ($0.59/Watt)
(Regular Price: $342)

Max Power - 208 Watts
Open Circuit Voltage - 37.5 Volts
Short Circuit Current - 8.19 Amps
Max Power Voltage - 30.3 Volts
Max Power Current - 7.77 Amps
Dimensions: 66 x 41.3 x 1.22"
Weight: 46.7 lbs

Amerisolar 250 Watt
24 Volt SolarPanels


$137.50 Ea ($0.55/Watt)
(Regular Price: $192)

Manufacturer: Amerisolar
Model: AS-6P30-250
Maximum Power Output: 250 Watts
Max Operating Voltage (Vmp): 30.75 Volts
Max Operating Current (Imp): 8.19 Amps
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 38.2 Volts
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 8.65 Amps
Dimensions: 64.6 x 39.06 x 1.57"
Weight: 41 lbs

 

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

I hope this question fits your thread......

Is there a downside to the flexible panels ? The remarkable difference in weight leaves me very tempted to go that route.

Love to hear pros and cons.....

DavidGraves

 

[billharr]

Howdy

I hope this question fits your thread......

Is there a downside to the flexible panels ? The remarkable difference in weight leaves me very tempted to go that route.

Love to hear pros and cons.....

DavidGraves

Start reading here. I really wanted to go flex just as the problems started.

 

[Coblue]

I agree with RC Pilot Jim that your current set up probably can't keep up with the CR-110 draw.
This spring I bought a 2011 Northstar Laredo with a CR110 and was able to add three Renogy Eclipse 100w mono panels in parallel to the roof along with the Bogart Trimetric and SC-2030 with temp sensor and two used 12v AGM. I have stayed above 80% SOC through the Colorado summer (no shading).
I assume your ambient temps are higher than mine, so 200w is probably the minimum you need, and close to 300w is better.
Also reference MelloMike on Truck Camper Adventure- he is in AZ with a CR110 and was on the fence with his initial setup which was roughly 200-240w IIRC.
Your challenge is what you can get on the roof, and how you could supplement with portable panels.

I also strongly considered the Renogy flex panels for my Hallmark Milner, because of the weight savings, but that became moot when the panels were discontinued and I sold the Milner.

This winter I will be trading CR110 draw for furnace fan draw and less daylight- I'm looking forward to how that works out.

 

[DrJ]

I think you have a great plan with the upgrade.
It depends on where you live if 160 watts of solar will be enough.
You could always use the old panel on the roof too or consider using it as a portable panel.
Between the two it would be enough.

The dometic fridge is a great fridge despite the many negative reviews - it just draws a lot of power.
150 watts would be the minimum I'd recommend for anyone with that fridge.

You could consider a 24 volt panel with a MPPT controller.
Less voltage loss and you can get one above 200 watts.

Mine is 250 watts at 24 volts.

Keep us updated on how you like it.

Bill has posted some great deals with solar blvd. hard to beat that price.

I bought mine through Renogy. They are great to work with too.

 

[captainphx]

First question is how much power draw do you have? What are you running off the batteries?
Next, how long are you parked in any one spot? Do you have sunshine where you park, or do you park in the shade?

Knowing those two things will help determine the AH of the batteries you get. Crown is a good brand. Are you looking for maintenance free AGM or are you inclined to check specific gravity and add water once a month?

Have you looked at the thread I started a while back while contemplating my solar build? LINK

My power draw looks like it is less than yours ...maybe 40 AH/day. I am running similar items to you, but we are probably only running the water pump about 15 mins a day, and the heater a max of about 2 hours a day, no flood lights, fans almost always on low. We are typically parked in one spot for just one night, except when we are backpacking, then could be several days, but only the frig would be running then.

We spend by far the bulk of our time in the southwest and are almost always in full sun. Yes, AGM batteries are the type I will probably go with, although I am tempted to try lithiums.

Yes, I have been reading your fantastic threads! Now I am suffering from analysis paralysis! MPPT or PWM? 24V panels or 12? 12 volt batteries or 6?

I could mount a 160 watt panel in place of my old 85, and there is a perfect spots on the roof, (the luggage rack area) to mount 2, 40 watt panels and then a 100 watt portable, for a total of 340. But, still unsure if all these different panels can work, or how many charge controllers that would require. More reading ahead for me, and maybe a few phone calls. I really appreciate all that all of you very smart people have contributed. A little over my head, but I'm learning.

BTW, one of my challenges is the fact that I only have about 29 inches between roof vent fans, so I'm somewhat limited to the panel I can put in there.

 

[Vic Harder]

Yes, I have been reading your fantastic threads! Now I am suffering from analysis paralysis! MPPT or PWM? 24V panels or 12? 12 volt batteries or 6?

BTW, one of my challenges is the fact that I only have about 29 inches between roof vent fans, so I'm somewhat limited to the panel I can put in there.

Here is my $.01.

40AH day, and driving every other day? You could get away with 100AH batteries. Backpacking for several days with the fridge (assuming Dometic at 5A when running, and running 50% of the time, parked it the sun) = 60AH a day.

Or looking at it another way, can your solar panels generate 5+ Amps when it is parked during your longer absences? Aim for 10A and you should be good. 10A*12v = 120watts. Getting 10A will require at least a 150w panel, as DrJ and others are suggesting above.

With only 29" between roof vents, you have to watch out for shade too. Even a little bit of shade from one of the vents can kill your power output. I would consider leaving the panel you have there as is, and adding another 160w panel (those prices are awesome!) to the luggage rack area. And MAYBE have another 160w for use as a portable.

Get the Trimetric 2030 setup. You just need one for 30A worth of panels. Yes, MPPT is more efficient, and if you wanted 400w+ I'd say look at that option, but not for what you are asking about.

 

[captainphx]

With only 29" between roof vents, you have to watch out for shade too. Even a little bit of shade from one of the vents can kill your power output. I would consider leaving the panel you have there as is, and adding another 160w panel (those prices are awesome!) to the luggage rack area. And MAYBE have another 160w for use as a portable.

Thanks Vic, I think you just pushed me in the right direction. I think I'll modify (remove) part of the luggage rack and thus allow me to install a 160 there, and keep the 85 in place, just as you said. This would give me 245. Not too bad. And wire for the portable. I really don't care to carry a portable for storage reasons anyway, but it would be nice to have the option if I travel to cloudier country.

 

[Stalking Light]

I have a 60w PowerFilm foldable that I use as a portable panel, it folds to about the size of a 3 ring binder.

 

[captainphx]

I have a 60w PowerFilm foldable that I use as a portable panel, it folds to about the size of a 3 ring binder.

That sounds very interesting. How long of a wire do you use? Does that just lay out flat, or is there a stand of some kind?

 

[Stalking Light]

I have about a 20' wire and it just lays flat. A lot of time I put it on the hood of my truck held with some bungees or just lay it on the ground a stake it down if its windy.


Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Wander The West

 

[captainphx]

I just placed my order:

Trimetric TM2030A
Trimetric SC2030 with batt temp sensor
500 A/50mv shunt
Blue Sea ML-ACR 7622
Solar Cynergy 160 watt 12V Mono Panel

Total $579
Thanks Bill Harr for the heads up on the Solar Blvd special!!
Thanks Dr J and Vic and everyone for your suggestions and help!

Still working on the AGM batteries, but probably Crown. Will have see if I can squeeze in group 31's.
Need to figure out what plug to use for an portable panel.

Can't wait till it all gets here!

 

[JaSAn]

Can't wait till it all gets here!

Christmas coming early this year

jim

 

[captainphx]

Well, its been a while since I posted on this thread. A lot has changed as far as my solar setup. My setup is complete. It was a real learning experience for me. As I said in an earlier post, I am slow, but I kept researching until I had most of what I needed to know and then went for it. What I have done is not ground breaking, nor is there really anything new here. It has all been posted about before in this forum. But I will tell you how it went for me.

I ordered Bogarts SC2030 charge controller and their Trimetric TM2030A and a 500A/50mV shunt and battery compartment temp sensor. I also ordered a Blue Sea ML ACR automatic charge relay model 7622 with SPDT control switch, Zamp portable power port , 2 Solar Cynergy 160 watt 12V solar panels, MC4 wiring and 2 MC4 "Y" connectors to wire my panels in parallel. I also bought a lot of other wire and connectors of various sizes to complete this job. Oh, and I almost forgot, 2 group 31 Concord Lifeline AGM batteries for a whopping $330 apiece! Not exactly sure what all this cost, but probably around $1500 if not more. But, by far and away, the biggest investment in all of this was time. Time researching online, ordering, waiting for things to come in the mail, driving to hardware stores, electronic stores, and solar stores.

The install went pretty well though. The manuals that you can download from Bogart Engineering's website are great. As well as the Blue Sea ACR manual from online. They both have wiring diagrams that are quite helpful. Borgarts info was great. Very in depth. And of course info from this forum is vast and invaluable also. There are some really smart people on this site.

The space I had to work with was quite limited, but I managed to squeeze it all in there, as you can see from the pics below. I installed a Marinco plug in the bed of the truck, but it is rated at 40 amps and my inline fuses from the truck (6 AWG) are 60 amp. So I ordered a 70 amp plug from Marinco. Still waiting for that. The 40 amp receptacle accepts 6 AWG coming in, but then you have to use 8 AWG coming out of the plug, for a few inches, then go back to 6, whereas the 70 amp Marinco allows 6 on both sides.

I removed the 85 watt panel on the roof and it is now my portable. I have 25 feet of wiring for that. I installed one of the 160 watt panels where the 85 was using the Yakima track. The other 160 watt required that I cut out the center piece of aluminum on my luggage rack. You can see that piece in the photo above. Once that was out I was able to mount the panel there using aluminum L brackets and 3/16 inch diameter pop rivets. I'll post those pics later, but it fits just perfectly down inside the luggage rack, and the rack is still usable!

This project required an amazing amount of different size electrical connectors, terminal rings, wire, heat shrink, zip ties, and so on. I saved the installation of the solar panels for the very last and that is where I ran into my biggest problem. I wired them in parallel using the MC4 Y connectors and MC4 wiring. After hooking them up ( a pretty simple job, really) I plugged them into the plug on the roof. I checked the solar charge controller, expecting to see a yellow charge light and a green blinking light indicating the type of charging. I saw neither. I had already hooked up the portable panel through the Zamp power port I installed, and so I knew the charge controller was working. I was baffled. So I hooked up each 160 watt panel separately through the Zamp port and each showed charging on the charge controller. So the panels were OK. And I hooked up the portable panel into the outlet on the roof and that showed charging as well. So it had to be in the parallel wiring connections between the two 160 watt panels.

I pulled all the wires apart and checked each wire separately for continuity. I also checked the Y connectors for continuity. Everything checked out good. I then started wiring it up again, but this time, checking for continuity after each connection, All was good until I got to the last connection. One of the MC4 connectors connected to the Y connector was not making the an actual electrical connection. I did some more research online and found out the it is recommended that all MC4 type connectors be off the same brand. Some brands make them slightly different, and they may not connect. They will look connected, but are not. The company that I ordered the wiring from sent me 2 different brands. I actually had 4 pieces of that MC4 wiring and none would make that connection. So I went to a local solar store and tried a different brand, and it worked.

So all seems to be working fine now, although I have only tested it in the driveway. We are looking forward to taking it out into the desert in a week or so and give it a real test. The Trimetric is great! It is amazing to see what each electrical item draws. Now I have 405 watts of power! If I happen to be driving by a small town, that has had a power outage, I can stop and let them hook up for a while!! Pics below:

 

[captainphx]

The Trimetric:

 

[captainphx]

The ACR SPDT switch



The Zamp port