Used FWC camper alert

[goodtimes]

Propane tank relocation.

I didn't like the place that FWC put the propane tank. It was taking up space that I wanted for some drawers, and was simply too high off the ground.

A quick look & confirmation with a tape measure led me to move the tank to the left rear corner of the camper. I had to cut one upright frame member that was just left of the door frame, and I had to weld in one horizontal piece to frame out the newly relocated propane box. I used the same box, but it was a *tight* fit. I had to rotate it 90* so the bulkhead penetration was pointing up, instead of off to the side - but it's square, so no big deal. The problem is that the box is now sitting inside the frame - not flush with the outside edge. The available space between the door frame and outside wall frame is 13", while the box is 14".

This effectively narrows the opening by one inch - but once you are past the frame, it opens back up to the full 14". This means that the access hatch would have to be narrowed.





Unfortunately, it appears that I didn't take any pictures of the door being cut down - but the basic process went like this:
1: separate the door from the outer frame
2: Cut 1 1/2 out of the top and bottom (horizontal) pieces of the outer frame
3: Separate the sheet metal door skin from the inner frame.
4: cut 1 1/2" out of the top and bottom (horizontal) pieces of the inner frame
5: Trim 3/4" off of the left and right sides of the door skin (1.5" total)
6: reassemble the door to the inner frame. The gasket fits tight enough to hold it all together without welding/glueing.
7: join the two halves of the outer door frame.
8: rivet the hinge to the inner and outer frame.
9: crack open a cold beer - you just saved yourself from having to order a custom sized hatch.

 

[Barko1]

Interesting idea about the propane relocation, I might have to do that since I'm going to ditch the furnace for a Wave. Then I can keep the old propane door for an external storage location but reduce the depth of the area to regain interior storage.



Not to hijack, but.. I'm not sure why you might change the tank because you are going to a Wave? I yanked the regular blower furnace and hooked a flexible gas/LP hose to the existing line to hook to the Wave, still need my 20# propane tank.
I left the existing furnace cover in place and just insulated it

 

[goodtimes]

With the paneling up, it was time to add some insulation. I'm not a huge fan of the spun fiberglass - so some 1" tyvek foam was in order. It took two sheets and change, and was an easy morning project.



In the top right corner of the picture above, you'll see a small wood block in place of some insulation. FWC put that there - I didn't know why, but I figured it out later (unfortunately, too late to take advantage of it). Basically, anywhere you are going to screw into the wall from the interior, to attach a cabinet or counter top, etc, if you add a strip of wood in place of the insulation, you give yourself a nice solid block to screw to - no worries about stripping the hole out in the thin paneling & the load gets spread out over a much larger area. If you find yourself in this kind of project, I suggest following their lead. I which I would have figured it out sooner.

And then a coat of paint for the interior, followed by a few lay-out lines. The 30 gallon water tank is recognizable, and the gray box next to it is a National Luna Portable Power Pack with a deep cycle Odyssey battery. We're only running one house battery since we don't need much power, and we usually move every couple days. We may add solar some day - but for now, the 105 amp-hour Odyssey will keep us running for 48+ hours.

 

[goodtimes]

A few thoughts on siding. Much of this thought process happened earlier in the project (before I ripped the old siding off), but I waited to reveal my reasoning until now since it fits better here.

When I bought the camper, the siding was in rough, but serviceable condition. There were a couple small (tennis ball size) holes that could have been patched. There were a few random things screwed to the sides of the camper which served me no purpose (antenna mounts, hooks, etc). There was a roughly 15" square hole left from relocating the propane tank, and some now useless vents from the Dometic 3-way fridge that I was replacing with an ARB fridge/freeze. On top of that, it was that awful yellow/brown tint that was oh-so-popular in the 90's & I really dislike that color.

So, I had a few options.

1: I could just live with it. That just wasn't happening - the holes needed to be fixed, and I don't want it to look like a cobbled together POS when I'm done. It's just not what I do.

2: I could patch the holes and paint the patches to match the existing color. Yea - not happening. I don't like the color, and getting material to patch the holes would be extremely expensive. The set-up fee to run the first piece of siding was 4x the cost of the first piece.

3: I could patch the holes and then paint the whole camper a better color. This was a good solution. You would be able to see the patches, but at least it wouldn't be that awful color (regards to anyone who actually likes that color). The downside is that I would have to spend a few hundred $$$ on paint, primer, & supplies - after I paid that steep set-up fee.

4: I could replace all of the siding. This was the most expensive option - but it would give me new siding all around, plus I could get new pieces made for the outer door skin, underneath the cab-over section, and a couple other spots that would benefit (like the back 2' of the camper that stuck out of the back of the truck).

The opportunity cost to go from option #3 to option #4 was only a couple hundred bucks. So . . .




Option #4 it was.

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

Still aluminum though, right?

 

[natjwest]

But how will you reconcile the upper fabric color that you hate so much with whatever color you make the new siding? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[goodtimes]

Still aluminum though, right?


Yes. It is the same material that FWC uses, with the same rolled pattern. The only difference is the joints - the new siding uses 'Pittsburgh' joints, where FWC uses 'Auto-Roll' joints.


But how will you reconcile the upper fabric color that you hate so much with whatever color you make the new siding? Inquiring minds want to know!


That decision was easy. My bank account dictated my acceptance of the color.

Truth be told, the fabric doesn't bother me nearly as much as the color of the old siding. Not really sure why - but it doesn't. When the top gets replaced, it will be gray.

 

[goodtimes]

Installing the siding is really a strait forward task. There are essentially 5 sections of the camper, with regard to the siding. The left and right sides, the back, the front below the cab-over extension, and the cab over extension itself. It is typically installed from the top down - and that was almost the case here.

Because the cab-over section doesn't have a pattern in it (it has the embossed faux wood-grain pattern, but not the rolled corrugations), it won't let you line up the pattern (the corrugations). So, I started at the top of the front panel.



I simply held the panel in place with one hand, and stapled it along the top edge with the other. A couple staples along the edges, and then the extreme lower edge, below the Pittsburgh joint. The next panel is slipped into the Pittsburgh from the bottom, then stapled along the sides and the bottom edge. Rinse & repeat until you reach the bottom edge of the camper. It's important to note that when the panels are built, they are numbered so they all go into the right location - this helps ensure that the pattern (corrugations) line up between the front & side panels. After the last panel is stapled in, I cut out the hole for the window. A router with a flush-trim bit works great - or you can use a grinder with a cut-off wheel, you just have to pay more attention to where the wheel is in order to avoid damaging the frame.



After the front, I moved to the side panel. I started at the top, and worked my way down, just like I did on the front. The pattern fell right into place - and everything lines up nicely. Now, remember what I mentioned about those wood blocks a couple posts ago? It's a good idea to put a wood block in anywhere that you will be screwing something to the side of the camper. The water fill port, electrical port, etc. It is much better to screw through the siding into a solid block of wood, rather than just through the siding and nothing else - so plan ahead, and draw out a map of where everything is, so you can find it later when the new siding is covering it up.

 

[goodtimes]

The only problem I had with the siding involved an oversight on the part of the guys making it. From the factory, the top 6" of the siding does not have a pattern rolled into it (it has the embossed faux wood grain - but no corrugations), which allows it to (visually) match the front of the cab-over extension. They overlooked this detail, and rolled a pattern into that top piece. Visually, most people don't notice - in fact, I didn't notice until I already had it installed, and went to put up the last piece, which was the front of the cab-over extension.

Other than the aesthetic point of it not matching, this does create a potential for a leak. Since the front is flat, and the sides are not, the sides are overlapped on top of the front, rather than the other way around. This can allow water to be blown into the gap between them when you are driving down the freeway, if the sealant dries out and peels back. Unfortunately, I didn't discover the problem until I had the sides in place - so having new top panels made would have involved removing all the the siding that I had just put up - which is not only a tedious task, but there is a pretty high risk of damaging (bending/tearing) the panels as you pull them off. I decided to leave them as-is, but will have to keep an eye on the sealant as the years go by.

 

[goodtimes]

Sealing the siding.

At the recommendation of the guys who built the siding, I used putty tape anywhere that something would penetrate the external skin of the camper. That included the door, windows, any hatch covers (propane, water, electrical, etc), the trim along the edges, the roof clamps, the awning brackets - everything. If I recall correctly, I used just shy of 7 rolls, at 30' each - a total of 200'. yea, 200'.

It's not hard to work with, just a bit messy and tedious. You start by putting it in the fridge for a hour or three - it's not nearly as sticky when it's cold, making it much easier to work with. Since all the trim, the door, windows, etc had flat mounting surfaces, and the siding wasn't flat - I cut a 1" long piece of the tape and put it in the low spot of the pattern everywhere that I would be mounting something. This built it up about flush with the high spots of the siding. Then I ran a second piece of tape over the short pieces & the high spots. Finally, I screwed the (what ever) to the camper, tight enough that the putty tape would ooze out the sides.




Despite how it looks in the picture above, the siding is polar white - I should have tweaked the white balance before I exported that image - oh well.



Once the door (windows, what ever) were in, I left it alone for a few days. This let the garage heat up and cool down a few times, letting the putty finish oozing out before I trimmed it off. When it came time to remove the excess, a plastic putty knife handled the job nicely. Just be sure that you don't drop any little pieces on the floor - you will undoubtedly step on them, and then track it into the house, where your significant other will be sure to let you know about it, probably in a less than friendly manner.

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

Interesting, interesting ...

 

[goodtimes]

The final step for the siding was to apply a bead of Silicon sealant around all the edges. This keeps the putty tape clean and helps prevent it from drying out and crumbling. At least that is the story I was told. Since I'm far from a subject matter expert on camper building - I'll take their word for it.

This was probably the most disappointing part of the project. The pattern on the siding, combined with the somewhat irregular shapes of the trim pieces and my lack of experience working with it, all combined to some beads that aren't exactly pretty. It's not like they are horrendous abominations that would embarrass Fred Sanford - but it's the final touch on the exterior of the camper, so you want it to look good. The sealant that I used wasn't some of the rookie-friendly "siliconized acrylic" stuff that cleans up with water (and also dries out in a year or two). No, this is the stuff that sticks to everything, lasts forever, stays as flexible as a rubber band, and tells the world that you didn't know what you were doing when you applied it.

But no matter how bad it turns out - don't try to peel it off and make a second run at it. You'll create a lot more work for yourself, and you won't end up with any better of a finish. Just, uh, don't ask me how I know.

And no, I'm not posting pictures of that step.


(truthfully - it isn't *that* bad, and I really didn't take any pictures)

 

[natjwest]

Most excellent full reporting. I greatly appreciate it. Looking forward to the inside parts.

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

I had the pleasure of seeing some of the work throughout and checking out the "almost" final product Wednesday night and must say that the average individual couldn't tell the difference between this camper and a brand new camper from FWC. The interior is beautiful and quite practical. I don't want to steal any of Goodtimes' thunder so I will leave it at that. I didn't think to take any pictures anyway! Of course, now I'm rethinking the interior of our camper... and I don't have time for that!

 

[Skeeter]

Good rework and post. Could you please tell us where you got the siding? I have tried to find a source without any luck. Thanks!

 

[goodtimes]

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

CJ8 - did I mention that when we left your place, we forgot a *almost* empty beer bottle in the camper? What a not-so-nice surprise when we got home and opened the door to load some junk. Luckily, the smell dissipated over night.

I'll have more of the story in a couple days - we just got home from a 3-day backpacking trip, and the better half is about ready to go grocery shopping.

Skeeter - the siding was made at Merrigans AZ Road Runner in Tucson. It's an old-school RV repair place - very cool folks there who aren't always the fastest, but they do everything they can to make sure the job is right.

 

[goodtimes]

Thoughts about the roof, fabric top, & the door.

By this time, I had already spent a big chunk of $$$, and was fast approaching a somewhat soft budget ceiling. I was willing to break it - but I didn't really want to if I didn't need to. On the other hand, I didn't want to cut corners.

After some thought, I decided to keep the existing roof & fabric top. They still have some life in them (no leaks in the roof, only minor holes in the fabric), and when the time comes to replace them, I won't have to 'un-do' anything that I've rebuilt, with the exception of having to remove the top piece of trim (which secures the lower edge of the fabric).

I also decided to keep the door. Much like the fabric & roof, I don't have to tear anything apart to replace it - and it was in fair shape.

The door doesn't sag, but the whole thing was a bit flimsy. The corner welds were breaking - and in one case, had been repaired, then broke again. My solution was to do a simple rebuild. The door was disassembled, the outer skin was replaced (with a piece that matches the siding), the lock was cleaned up and lubricated, the hinges were cleaned, the interior skin was painted, and the corners of the frame were reinforced. Rather than weld the corners back together, I decided to go with a more flexible joint.

I picked up a couple of L-brackets, and a couple 'corner' - brackets from the local big-box home improvement store, and a tube of black RTV from the local auto-parts store. I glued (& clamped) the brackets to the hidden side of the door-frame with the RTV, and left it sit for a couple days. When the RTV was cured, I trimmed the excess off with a razor blade, and trimmed the excess L-bracket off with a grinder. This produces a surprisingly strong joint, and remains pretty flexible - so I shouldn't see more cracks forming around the corners.

By the way, RTV works great for attaching relays, fuse blocks, etc to any clean & relatively flat piece of metal that you don't want to drill into (like the firewall of your truck).

 

[goodtimes]

On to everyones favorite part: the interior.

Way back at the beginning of this thread, I stated that I never really liked the interiors that FWC put in their campers. I'll elaborate on that a bit now. The overall layout is fine - 'fridge/cabinet/sink/stove/etc on the left half of the camper, seating on the right, sleeping up front - all that works. The problem is that there isn't enough of what I call "organized and accessible" storage. To put it another way - there aren't enough drawers or cabinets with full width doors & shelves (although you have to be careful with shelves in a moving vehicle - for obvious reasons). The interior was fine - if I wanted to store my dishes in a box under the seat. Sorry - just not my idea of making it easy. And that's the whole idea of a camper, isn't it? Making the process of camping 'easier'? OK, add 'more comfortable' in there too - but that doesn't add much to my train of thought.

OK, so I decided to keep the same basic floor plan that FWC used when they built this camper. Fridge on the left in the rear. Moving forward was the stove & sink, with utilities underneath them. Seating across the front. Seating in the front on the right, and a small pantry (or closet) in the left rear. Simple enough, right?

So, I started with selecting the appliances and support equipment. Those included a Wave 8 heater (we avoid cold weather camping - so we can get by with less heat & we don't run it at night, so the CO2 issue is basically non-existant), a SMEV stovetop, and we re-used the existing sink & faucet, although we powered the faucet with a Sure-flow pump. In addition, I added a 30 gallon water tank to cover us on those multi-week trips into Mexico, and a National Luna 'Portable Power Pack' (more info on that later).

Construction was primarily out of 3/4" Birch Plywood (with the appropriate veneer edge banding), and some slightly cheaper (unfinished) plywood in a few areas that would either never see the light of day, or would be covered (like the counter top). I used pocket-hole screws pretty much anywhere that the new cabinets met the camper floor, as they are pretty simple to use and don't protrude into usable space. I quickly learned that if you can't clamp both pieces together - the piece you are screwing through (as opposed to the piece you are screwing to) will walk just a bit. While this wasn't a huge problem at the outset, it became an issue later on.

My method basically was to build from the bottom up, finishing one layer (bottom), then building the next layer based on the dimensions that the bottom layer ended up at. That meant I had to finish one piece (cut, edge, stain, varnish, & install) before I could start cutting for the next piece. So basically, my cabinets 'grew' somewhere between 1/32 and 1/16" every time I used pocket-hole screws to attach a section. The problem is when you try to get the top and bottom sections to line up and have the line between them disappear - it's a little more difficult when the pieces won't sit still. As I moved into the top half of the cabinets, I shyed away from the pocket hole screws and went back to the L-brackets that FWC used. As a bonus, these gave me a small amount of adjustment on the pieces I was attaching - which was a good thing considering I'm a complete noob at woodworking.

OK - enough of the long winded crap. On to some pictures . . .

Like I said - I kept the same basic layout that FWC used. To the right as you come in the door (left side of this picture) is the pantry. There are 3 shelves in it, each shelf has a removable tray. The idea is that we would be able to simply grab the 'shelf' that we need, and pull the whole thing out to access what was on it. Basically, this is where the dry foods are stored, the spices, tin-foil, zip-lock bags, plastic wrap, etc. On the right is the shelf that will eventually hold the ARB 47L fridge/freeze. We live in the desert, we camp in the desert. The 3-way fridges don't perform that well in high temps (90*+) - at least that is what I'm told. Since we already have the ARB, we're going to run with it. Finally - despite how it looks, the varnish is actually a 'satin' finish - it's not the high gloss that it appears to be.




Looking from the rear & a little farther along, you can see where I mounted the Wave, with the start of a bulk storage area in front of it. In the far front/left corner, are all the water lines, bundled together and supported by some 1" wide nylon webbing.



And nearing the end of the woodwork, viewed from the bunk:

 

[goodtimes]

A typical butt-joint probably would have been fine - but what fun is that? Being that I've never worked with wood and I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment, dove-tails sounded about right.

A bunch of drawers about to happen:



And a little while later:



You can probably see that the bottom left drawer sits considerably higher than the rest of them - that's to make room for the propane lines that run underneath it. Once the drawer face is mounted, you won't be able to tell.

 

[natjwest]

Uhh so cool with all the drawers. Makes me jealous. What about the couch? MORE PICS! I'M FOAMING AT THE MOUTH.