Varmints!

Lighthawk

Weekend warrior
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
3,334
Location
Nevada City, CA
After removing our Hawk to diagnose leaks after our torrential 12" of rainfall, I took the unburdened truck to work. I decided to go to the carwash and clean under the hood of the Big Truck, as we call our new 2021 RAM 3500 crew cab. It was quite dusty in the engine compartment from our 400 mile loop through Black Rock/Soldier Meadows/High Rock Canyon.

I was alarmed to find evidence of a rodent that had been under the hood :oops: , most likely at our grassy High Rock camp where it rained that night. Yikes! I could see rat-sized footprints on the engine cowlings.

I've searched the WTW forums and the best suggestions I found was placing a sock filled with mothballs under the hood, seconded by placing rat traps on top of the wheels :eek: . Leaving the hood propped up is something I've seen Lawnmower Man and other experienced campers do. Apparently, rodents don't like the light. Anyone else have a good suggestion to keep the varmints out, both day and night? I don't want to discover chewed wires, especially in a newer high tech truck.



 
In all the years and all the places we've been we've not had a problem with critters, or so we thought. Last year when disassembling the top of the engine to install new fuel injectors and replace seeping valve cover gaskets, we found a beautiful rat's nest under the intake manifold. It was old and unused for quite some time. There was no damage, maybe an advantage of an old truck with old fashion coated wires. We figure it happened when we were on a multi-day backpack trip and the truck sat at a trailhead.

Mothballs are popular at Montana wilderness trailheads and are also thought of as a deterrent for bears breaking in. We've been to a couple trailheads that reek of mothballs. We park next to a vehicle that stinks.

Knock on wood, that remains our only sign of critters.
 
I have read of others wiring in some small LED lights for under the hood. Seems like it shouldn't take much light to make them not like being there, but it probably would need to be evenly distributed. Maybe a ribbon of LEDs circling the engine bay on a PWM to turn down the amount of light?
 
ntsqd said:
I have read of others wiring in some small LED lights for under the hood.
I've thought about LED lights, but I would have to remember to turn them on and off, which at age 60+ won't be reliable.

In many of our camping locations, running bright lights assuming leakage, would be undesirable.
I like dark skies for photography and ambiance, and also prefer to keep a low profile in camp and not annoy our neighbors nor advertise our location.
 
Light or hood up seems to be most common technique.

I’ve also heard of a coiled rubber snake under the engine, but have no info on its effectiveness.
 
We had our introduction to packrats at Lost Dutchman State Park near Phoenix in April, 2010. We camped there one night after arriving in late afternoon. The van had been running fine when we arrived but when I started it in the morning the engine was missing badly.

I used the GPS to search for auto services and started limping to them as I didn't have a phone. After a few duds we came to an old two-bay gas station with a lot of vehicles sitting around. The bays were full but the owner said he'd be happy to take a look and was confident he could find whatever's wrong. In a few minutes he showed me the chewed off fuel injector wires and damage to the wire loom and connectors. He said the biggest problem was the connectors but thought he might be able to get what he needs from the junked cars out back.

I walked back through the junked vehicles with him and I remember him lifting the hood of one to show me the engine compartment of that one was completely filled with packrat nest.

The repair cost me $150 but I was very happy to pay it. I was out of there in only an hour and a half and felt very lucky to have gone to that shop.

The other piece of advice I read somewhere was to look for packrat activity and park in an open area as far away as you can. I remember trying to do that in Nevada a few years ago and it seemed like I was surrounded by packrats-- stacked debris everywhere. I parked in the middle of the parking lot (rather than near the picnic table/fire ring), opened the hood, and put an LED headlamp in the engine compartment overnight.

My latest encounter with varmints was this summer near Red Feather Lakes, Colorado. I had seen a chipmunk about and happened to see it go under the truck and then climb up behind the front wheel and disappear up into the engine area. I checked the engine compartment, blew the horn, started the truck, etc. I saw it a bit later on the rocks nearby, taunting me. (Not the best time to have left the slingshot in the other truck!) I again did the open-hood, headlamp-in-engine-compartment thing.

I also remember seeing this advice from Mr. Pack Rat. It's oriented toward vehicles parked at home but may be useful for its concepts:

Best Bets to Prevent Pack Rats From Attacking Your Vehicle
.
 
Keep a pet owl nearby.
I think the snake idea would be great.
It's a shame that you don't get "full" service anymore
the attendant would get a surprise when the oil gets checked.
Frank
 
Moth balls,
peppermint oil,
onion, garlic (or oil),
hot peppers (powder or oil),
cloves,
cayenne pepper,
white vinegar,
crushed bay leaves,
dryer sheets,
a particular brand/scent dryer sheet,
april spring bar soap,
preditor pee (liquid or crystals),
rubber snakes,
ultrasonic repellant,
light,
strobing light,
cat.

I've probably forgotten a few. Some people swear by one and someone else will say it doesn't work.

Problem is not just under the hood. There are wires going back to the transmission and transfer case, and along the frame rails to the rear of the truck.
 
I've tried the peppermint and pepper sprays at home with no success. While the recent rains were welcome they also brought insects and varmints out of their hidey holes. I found a rat eating my gorp in my pantry. Dispatched him (or her?) the old fashioned way with a trap baited with peanut butter.

Ages ago at a trailhead in the Lassen National forest they warned about porcupines eating radiator hoses. I unfortunately don't recall what they recommended to repel them.
 
Except for Old Crow's experience, I have not known anyone who had a problem with varmints and truck wiring. Years ago at Organ Pipe I was a bit bemused to see numerous hoods up and LED lights on all night. A ranger told us the packrats were not really an issue, but lots of folks must have read the same internet wisdom. I never worry about it.
 
Old Crow posted a link to Mr. Pack Rat https://mrpackrat.net/mobile/ratsinvehicles

So in that link there are many pages but on Rats in Vehicles page here are the word IF you don't want to go there.

Why Pack Rats Are Attracted To Vehicles
Pack rats are attracted to any area that provides opportunities for safe harborage. An ideal harborage is accessible to the pack rat, but not to its many predators including bobcats, owls, snakes and coyotes.
A vehicle engine compartment is close to perfect. Additionally, the sound proofing insulation under the hood provides excellent nest-making material and engine wires are just right for the chewing necessary to maintain sharp teeth.
Many newer cars have engine covers and shrouds that provide hiding places even when the hood is open. Pack rats will alson nest above the gas tank and can even get into the air filter compartment
Best Bets To Prevent Pack Rats From Attacking Your Vehicle
If you live in an area where there are pack rats there is always a chance that pack rats may do damage to your vehicle. Pack rats even get into garages. There are many things you can do to reduce the risk, in many cases to almost zero.
Best Bets:
#1 No pack rat nests nearby! Inspect the general area for nearby pack rat nests. A single female may be responsible for as many as 20 young a year, all who need to find new homes (like your vehicle) as they mature. Removing nearby nests can significantly reduce the risk of attack. Before removing a nest, the resident rats should be trapped. A homeless rat will seek a nearby alternative shelter-most likely your car.
Also:
• A Rat-Proof Garage. A pack rat only needs an opening the size of a nickel to enter a garage. They are excellent climbers and can enter high or low. A poorly sealed garage is worse than parking outside, since rats are attracted to an area they can enter, but larger predators cannot.
• Open Space. If a rat-proof garage is not available, the vehicle should be parked in the most open area possible, ideally with at least five to ten feet of totally clear space on all four sides with no trees or other cover above the vehicle.
• No Stored Items Close By. If the vehicle must be parked in a carport, there should be no other items stored in the carport including boxes, yard tools, and trash containers. Any additional cover from stored items makes the area more attractive.
• Vegetation Trimmed. Keep all vegetation in the immediate area well trimmed to eliminate as much cover as possible. You should be able to clearly see under and behind all bushes and other plants anywhere near the vehicle. Avoid using rock borders rats can hide next to.
• Hood Open. For many vehicles, leaving the hood open takes away the sense of enclosure and protection that the rat is seeking. If you choose to leave the hood open, be sure to disconnect any internal engine compartment lights to avoid a dead battery in the morning. Also, secure the hood with some type of strap if high winds are a possibility. Leaving the hood open does not work as well on newer vehicles with engine covers and shrouds that still offer plenty of hding areas.
• Light. A utility light hanging from above with an open hood works best. Be sure to use a yellow “bug” bulb to minimize flying insects. A light under the car may help, but not as much as light from above. Lights are not effective on newer cars with engine covers and shrouds.
• Be Alert. If you park outside keep your eyes open for rat droppings and pieces of cactus that show up near or under your vehicle. Lift and check under the hood often. Be extra careful when heavy rain or cold weather may cause rats in the area to look for better quarters.
If you are in our service area, contact us for a free, no obligation inspection and we can give you specific recommendations of how to reduce the risk of pack rats​

Once Rats Have Been In Your Vehicle
You can park a vehicle outside for years without a problem, but once rats get into a vehicle, there may be constant reoccurring attacks. Pack rats naturally reuse the same nesting sites generation after generation. The rat “marks” your vehicle with a scent, the same way a dog “marks” its territory. This scent will attract other rats to your vehicle.
Steps to Take:
#1 – Catch the Rat! If a rat is currently infesting your vehicle it must be caught before any other steps are taken! A trap is best. Do not use poison. Poison is food and is designed to attract rats. Once a rat eats the poison they do not die for days and have plenty of time to do damage and leave their scent.
#2 – A Thorough Cleaning. You want to remove as much scent of the previous rat as possible
• Soak all urine stains with a 50% solution of pine oil (Pin-Sol®) and then use a high-pressure hose to clean everything off. Pay close attention to hard-to-reach areas. You may need to remove the battery to clean behind and underneath.
• Once the vehicle is clean, the hood should still be left open as a further deterrent for at least three weeks to be sure the scent is completely gone. Even better park in a well sealed garage if possible.
#3 – Prevention.
No matter how well you clean, some scent may remain and your vehicle will be at higher risk than a car that has not had rats in it before. Read and follow the recommendations in the section Best Bets To Prevent Pack Rats From Attacking Your Vehicle
Be diligent and check the car often. If you see any signs of new actvity, put out a trap immediately. Once the car has been rat free fro 30 days the risk of reinfestation will be less and you can check less often if desired.

What Doesn’t Work
There are many products and myths reported on ways to prevent pack rats. Many are supported with anecdotal claims such as “John Doe used this and never saw another rat.” Unfortunately there is no easy magical cure and I know of no product that has held up to true scientific testing.
Mr. Pack Rat has thousands of customers. Many have tried everything before they finally called us. Learn from their experience and ours.
• Poison Bait — Poison bait is rat food. If you want to attract birds, you put out bird food. Putting out rat poison attracts rats. They may eat the poison and die or they may collect it for their food stores. All poisons take 5-10 days to work, so even if the rat dies there is still plenty of time to do damage and “mark” your vehicle as an excellent nesting site. In most areas, there are too many rats and they breed too quickly to ever be poisoned to oblivion. See the Problems with Poison page for full details.
Mini-strobe Lights — There are simply too many hiding places in most cars for these lights to really be effective. Also pack rats adapt quickly. A light in an enclosed area is still a safe enclosed area and the rat will just ignore the light after a short time
Moth balls — Under NO circumstances should moth balls be used as a pack rat deterrent. They are both hazardous to human health and EPA regulated against use of this type.
Ultrasonic devices — Rats will nest near, next to and even on top of ultrasonic devices.
• Commercial repellent sprays — Pack rats ignore them.
• Potato flakes — Pack rats will not actually eat the flakes, swell up and die.
• Ivory or Irish Spring soap — The smell does not bother pack rats and if they eat the soap it will not harm them.
• Dryer sheets — The smell does not bother pack rats.
• Predator urine — (bob cat, wolf, cougar, human or otherwise) The smell does not bother pack rats.
• Gum — Pack rats will not eat the gum, choke and die.
• Pepper/chili powder — Pack rats love chili seeds and the powder does not bother them.
 
provide hiding places even when the hood is open. Pack rats will alson nest above the gas tank and can even get into the air filter compartment.”

I recently saw a YouTube video of a Model A that had a mouse in one of the cylinders. The radiator cap was missing, and it went from there, to the head, through an open valve, into the cylinder.
 
On a trip to Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming many years ago we visited the Wind River mountains to do a couple of backpacking trips. We left the truck and camper at a popular trail head and went off for a 4-day trip.

Upon our return I noticed a tissue on the driver’s floor mat but thought I just left it there when we departed for the trip. We packed up and headed off down the long approach road to a main road. We stopped and I changed a flat tire on a Forest Service truck that was driven by a summer student.

We continued on to Pinedale where we had showers, did laundry and food shopped. We went above town to a restaurant on a lake and splurged for dinner. After dinner we found a convenient pull off road to spend the night. That night we had a very spectacular thunder storm and lightning close by.

In the morning I opened the driver’s door and saw a mouse. I don’t know why but when I first see them, they give startle me and I freeze for a moment. The mouse ran under the dash. I opened the hood and it ran back into the cab by using a small wiring hole that I had left unsealed.

I quickly did a search and discovered a nest under the driver’s seat. I put on rubber gloves and duct taped shut the hole into the engine compartment. I had my gal on the passenger side hold the cardboard sun shade to block access to that side of the cab (‘83 Toyota 4X4 truck). I started pulling the nest out from under the seat and one by one mice started to emerge.

Each time I saw a mouse I grabbed it and flung it as hard as I could behind me, as I wanted to keep my eyes on the next one. My gal was laughing as she saw mouse after mouse come flying out; she called it the “mouse circus”.

In all there were 5 mice. I then removed everything from the cab. My gal said do you really need 6 pairs of gloves and FOUR jackets? This is when you realize that you really don’t know what you have packed away. I removed both seats and did a thorough cleaning. We stopped in Pinedale and bought some mouse traps and set them up in the truck cab and camper for the rest of the trip but came up empty.

We had a FWC model that had a pass through into the cab and it was open the whole time we were backpacking, but we had no evidence of the mice getting into the camper. Must have been a frightening time for them when I was sitting in the seat driving and bouncing up and down on a dirt road!
 
Patrick's mouse story reminds me of an encounter I had with one.

Years ago we had a Dynavan (a Chevy 1-ton van with a fiberglass campervan top and dinette-style sleeping arrangements). Late one Fall we camped at Spruce Knob Lake Campground in Monongahela National Forest (WV). That night we were awakened by a mouse running across our covers, right at chest level.

We of course did everything we could think of to find that mouse. We didn't find it and eventually decided we must have scared it back out of the van.

A few days later I was gassing up at my local gas station. A mouse ran out from under the van... right at my feet... and ran directly out from me across the lot. I took chase, thinking I'd scare it away from the van and into the weeds.

But apparently the mouse realized it was too far to the weeds. It led me about 30 feet away from the van, then made a hard right turn, circled the gas pumps and then ran back under the van and up into it.

I remember looking around to see if anyone had witnessed that pea-brained little $#^&%*@ outwit me. Fortunately, there was nobody else around.
.
 
Old Crow said:
I remember looking around to see if anyone had witnessed that pea-brained little $#^&%*@ outwit me. Fortunately, there was nobody else around.
.
For you it was an annoyance. For the mouse it was a matter of life and death (and a warm, cozy home!)
 
Stayed a week at Karstner Caverns SP in Arizona last January. A really nice park with lots to do there and in the surrounding area if you're looking for a place.

First night I noted lots of rigs of all types with led light strings around them, hoods up and lights hanging from the hoods. Hadn't heard of such measures before. The place looked like it had ground level Christmas lights everywhere after dark. I asked around and yes, placed a light under our rig...

Kinda reminded me of putting your lasso around your sleeping area to keep snakes away... (True Grit reference...)

Never saw a varmit in a week so I guess it worked.....
 

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