Water system leak

[Smokecreek1]

Okay guys, here is the problem: First off-I have a 2005 Granby with a hot water heater that's seen a few wars over the years. I bought it new and it was one of the first ones with that type of hot water heater. I live up here in the the high desert of NE Ca/Nev and we have winter here! I have used my set up year round (that's why I bought it) and while the water system has frozen up before, I usually just park it in the sun and it thaws out and off I go with no leaks. With the hot water system on while I'm out and about there are no problems with freezing up. When not is use, I drain the water system and try to keep the snow of the roof. I never take the camper off my truck.

So this week I got ready to hit the woods. I filled her up with water, hit the pump switch to build up the pressure and it starts up ., but no water comes out at first into the sink, then a slow trickle does. I turn it off and start to trouble shoot. Over the years I have had water tank leaks and other problems with the system but this is the first water pressure one-so since the pump seems to be working there must be a leak somewhere. I look under the truck and water is leaking out on the ground and front of the pop-up starting to get wet- yep, maybe the tank again.

On my model of 4-wheel camper that means a major project of deconstructing (??) things to get at the problem! I open every thing up, tank is fine, water pump is not leaking-that means finding away to get into the cabinet to follow the water pipes and maybe find the leak (ha). I find a place to get my arm and hand in and after a foot or so-boom, the hot water heater stops all further progress, and of course the leak or what ever is causing the problem is probably one of connections in and around the heater. The only way to get at the problem now is to remove the front of the cabinet-and that is no fun, especially by my self! I could also try and pull the heater out from the outside and that job is way above my above ability.

I called four wheel and talked over the problem with them. They thought I probably had a crack in one of the connections too. I then asked if they had some of schematic of that area or something to guide me, but no! So if I can't find some way in I may have to pull the cabinet front after all-or pull the heater. I'll try tomorrow to get in again W/O removing the front. If I can't then it is either starting to carry jerry cans of water around like allot of you do or take it (Ugh) to the local shop and get on their long waiting list and spend the the $. But Boy I sure like having hot water at the touch and I'm old and tired of all this work . Does anyone have any great ideas, thoughts or a handy dandy schematic's that may make this job easier that I can use? Anyway, no matter what, this seems to be the way things work when you like to WTW-ya just have to keep at it and not let the system win!

Thanks

Smoke

 

[ski3pin]

Okay guys, here is the problem: First off-I have a 2005 Granby with a hot water heater that's seen a few wars over the years. I bought it new and it was one of the first ones with that type of hot water heater. I live up here in the the high desert of NE Ca/Nev and we have winter here! I have used my set up year round (that's why I bought it) and while the water system has frozen up before, I usually just park it in the sun and it thaws out and off I go with no leaks. With the hot water system on while I'm out and about there are no problems with freezing up. When not is use, I drain the water system and try to keep the snow of the roof. I never take the camper off my truck.

So this week I got ready to hit the woods. I filled her up with water, hit the pump switch to build up the pressure and it starts up ., but no water comes out at first into the sink, then a slow trickle does. I turn it off and start to trouble shoot. Over the years I have had water tank leaks and other problems with the system but this is the first water pressure one-so since the pump seems to be working there must be a leak somewhere. I look under the truck and water is leaking out on the ground and front of the pop-up starting to get wet- yep, maybe the tank again.

On my model of 4-wheel camper that means a major project of deconstructing (??) things to get at the problem! I open every thing up, tank is fine, water pump is not leaking-that means finding away to get into the cabinet to follow the water pipes and maybe find the leak (ha). I find a place to get my arm and hand in and after a foot or so-boom, the hot water heater stops all further progress, and of course the leak or what ever is causing the problem is probably one of connections in and around the heater. The only way to get at the problem now is to remove the front of the cabinet-and that is no fun, especially by my self! I could also try and pull the heater out from the outside and that job is way above my above ability.

I called four wheel and talked over the problem with them. They thought I probably had a crack in one of the connections too. I then asked if they had some of schematic of that area or something to guide me, but no! So if I can't find some way in I may have to pull the cabinet front after all-or pull the heater. I'll try tomorrow to get in again W/O removing the front. If I can't then it is either starting to carry jerry cans of water around like allot of you do or take it (Ugh) to the local shop and get on their long waiting list and spend the the $. But Boy I sure like having hot water at the touch and I'm old and tired of all this work . Does anyone have any great ideas, thoughts or a handy dandy schematic's that may make this job easier that I can use? Anyway, no matter what, this seems to be the way things work when you like to WTW-ya just have to keep at it and not let the system win!

Thanks

Smoke

Hey Smoke, I believe craig333 has a FWC Hawk about your vintage with a water heater. Perhaps he's been in there and knows the neighborhood?

 

[m5040]

Last resort, can you run a smaller line through inside of the old one to bridge the concealed area?

 

[AWG_Pics]

Hey Smoke. I have a 2019 Hawk and have had a couple of water leaks. Both times the same place: the black 4 connector manifold is not able to take much of a freeze. This spring, before our Death Valley trip, I spent several days chasing parts (finally got a couple new manifolds from 4Wheel in sacramento, they shipped them quickly). Here is the deal: you will have a devil of a time problem solving if you don't pull the front of the cabinet. I am actually getting pretty quick with it. Just unscrew it, give it a small pull, then rotate it up and to the right, so as to not bugger the thermostat wires. Do your trouble shooting and repairs -- BUT -- before putting the cabinet face back, test it all. Last time I found I had to clean the pump and adjust the hex screw to get it to work right. After everything is definitely working, then slap the cabinet back in place (after you reconnect any loose wires), put the silverware drawer slide fitting back (PITA) and you are good to go.

Before the first good freeze this fall, I will drain all the fresh water, pull the cabinet facing off, yank out the manifold, and just leave the system dry until things warm up in the spring.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

<snip>
Before the first good freeze this fall, I will drain all the fresh water, pull the cabinet facing off, yank out the manifold, and just leave the system dry until things warm up in the spring.

Words of wisdom, words to be followed.

 

[camelracer]

Smoke,
I've had the cabinet face off my '06 Granby several times and it's not too hard to do. Unhook and mark the wiring and remove the cabinet face screws. The wood that FWC uses is super light and the panel doesn't weight much.

While the cabinet face is off I would recommend you find someone with woodworking skills and have a door put in in front of the water heater. There is some storage area there and it gives you instant access to the plumbing.

 

[ski3pin]

So Smoke, what was the outcome? Did you get it fixed? Did you and Timber go camping? Smoke, we want to know!

 

[craig333]

I've yet to have a leak so I have not been in there. Sorry. Not sure when FWC started using the manifolds but not on our old campers. I like the idea of adding a door. I think I'll go out and check the anode today. Been a couple of years.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Still here trying to finish up using camelracers idea-making the finial door cuts on Wednesday. Such a simple thing to make a hard job easier-thanks CR and all of you for all the help. I had to take that cabinet face off when I first got my pop-up, water system problem (a stop valve in back words) had to do it using my phone, email, with a friend and Stan from 4 wheel-long distance. I've looked at that cabinet face for years thinking, boy hope I never have to work around that hot water heater and here 15 or so years later time again. Like has been said on this site many times, have a problem, ask here and someone will have an idea, should have figured would be came racer, I've been using his idea from a long time back to carry my handy man and shovels on the back of the pop-up! Yep thank you WTW !

Smoke

 

[Gumbus]

I have a 2020 Hawk front dinette and after a particularly cold winter I checked the water system and indeed found the plastic water manifold (5 port) had a leak when I pressurized the system. Understand that I did the prescribed method of draining all the water prior to storage. I called FWC and the Parts Dept and they said these manifolds are a know failure point and are vulnerable to leaks after freezing. The manifold seems to split at the molding seam. I am trying to figure out a different way of building a better manifold maybe out of PEX or something similar.
AWG_Pics is correct, the only way to deal with this is to take the front panel off for best access.

I would appreciate ideas for any alternatives to the cheap plastic manifold that comes installed. Don't want to go through this again.

 

[pvstoy]

Pictures?

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Gumbus, have you tried having FWC repair this on warranty? Since you followed the prescribed method for winterization, and the manifold is a known failure point, it’s certainly not going to hurt to ask. Reach out to Stan Kennedy (Stan@FourWheel) with a PM to see if he can help.

 

[kt2872]

Hello all, I have a 2020 FWC Grandby front Dinette and had a leak in the manifolds last spring. This camper is my third popup, second Granby. I had no problems with my first Grandby but the water system was completely different.

The manifolds that were installed in the 2020 are Zurn 1″ diameter Polysulfone QuickPort Manifold with Brass end caps. The leaks were at the seam starting in the treads, which seemed to be an odd place for a crack to form. I always winterize my campers by draining all water including hot water tank, opening up the facet and using low pressure air to blow out the lines.

So long story short I measured the diameter of the manifolds and end caps (both inside and outside) and placed both in a freezer and froze them to 0 degrees F, what I found was that the Polysulfone manifold had very little change in size but the brass end caps had a fairly large change in size, contracted in size because of the cold, I believe that this brass fitting contracting in size caused the crack to form. I have replaced the manifolds and end caps using like material (Polysulfone) used it all summer and fall with no leaks, I haven't filled the camper water system yet (still freezing here in Northern Nevada) but am hoping for no leaks this spring (if it ever gets here). KT

 

[Vic Harder]

Brings to mind the phrase "Cold enough to freeze the b@lls off a brass monkey"
Brass monkey (colloquialism) - Wikipedia

 

[Taku]

that was a good idea testing the brass end caps and kudos to Vic for the appropriate comment!

 

[Wallowa]

Also, may have been mentioned, but you cannot drain or purge all the water out of our '16 Hawk 6 gallon hot water heater..some water will remain.... 3/4 gallon?

 

[smcburnett]

I have a 2021 Hawk with front dinette and I’m trying to replace a cracked plumbing manifold. I have the part and am trying to remove the front cabinet panel to gain access to the manifold. I have removed all of the fasteners I can see and the forward section and upper rear of the panel is loose. However, the rear bottom of the panel seems firmly attached to the floor. Have I missed a hidden fastener? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Jon R]

I have a 2021 Hawk with front dinette and I’m trying to replace a cracked plumbing manifold. I have the part and am trying to remove the front cabinet panel to gain access to the manifold. I have removed all of the fasteners I can see and the forward section and upper rear of the panel is loose. However, the rear bottom of the panel seems firmly attached to the floor. Have I missed a hidden fastener? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

See my post in your other thread about the battery compartment sealant.

 

[Neversummer70]

Hey Smoke! did you get it fixed?
I am currently sitting in beautiful Sand Hollow State park in Hurricane UT and its my first trip out this spring after a numbing, record setting, winter in Park City. Sure enough I didn't add antifreeze or blow my lines out and both 90 degree plastic elbows to my shower under my sink cracked. After a trip to Home Depot I replaced them with brass fitting and I thought I had the bugger fixed and was dreaming of a nice hot shower....
Instead I see the black manifold positively spraying water hither and thither from behind the water pump. and the back of my camper spawning a water fall off my rear bumper.

So instead of a shower I am using wet wipes, c'est la vie. The camper life is glamourous.
Anyways, want to know how doable it is removing this front panel to get into that sucker. It looks... daunting. All the facades (thermostat, AC/DC power, furnace, hot water pump) must come off I am assuming?

Hoping y'all got out there and yes, I shall endeavor to antifreeze and blow out my lines moving forward.

 

[ckent323]

Some people may not know the following which is offered to stimulate thinking before replacing stuff:

All materials (metals, plastics, glass, adhesives, paint, etc) have characteristic thermal (and structural) properties. The properties vary from specific material to specific material (i.e. not all plastics are the same, not all metals are the same, not all adhesives are the same). Sometimes the differences are significant. However, assuming good manufacturing control, the properties of all parts made of the same specific material will have essentially the same thermal and structural properties.

The importance of this is that over a varying temperature all parts of the same specific material will expand and contract at a similar rate minimizing stresses on interfaces between parts. If a different material is introduced the differential thermal expansion or contraction of the materials can cause cracking and other issues.

In general, if you have a particular material in a plumbing system it is best to stay with that material and not mix materials, particularly when the system may see wide variation in temperature. If you decide to go with a different material for some reason, say copper, then replace all the components that will experience large temperature swings with the same material (copper in this case).

If you understand the material properties of all of the components as well as the temperature range then it is possible to engineer a system employing different materials for the various parts.

As some have reported, interfacing metal parts with plastic parts in a system that experiences wide temperature changes may result in failures.

I know this will come across as pedagogical and pedantic to some but I hope those who are not knowledgeable in these things will find it helpful.

Craig