Where Only A Pop-Up Could Go!

[brianjwilson]

The title says it. I want to see pictures of you guys taking your Four Wheel Campers or All Terrain Campers where a "light weight" hard side camper couldn't make it. I'm not talking about a rough gravel road or a little bit of sand, I want to see pictures of your trucks and campers in some tight spots!

I'm still undecided between a Four Wheel Camper and a light weight hard side, or even a new Four Wheel Camper hard side camper for that matter. I'm hoping that my wife and I will be moving back to Oregon soon (I'm still working toward a different job) and I will have a ton of free time to travel and explore. Half of the time I would be solo, half the time with my wife or a friend.

I'm imagining all of the places I have been and would potentially like to go with a camper, and I'm thinking that there isn't going to be a huge difference between 2' of overall height, given the campers are similar width and the weight is not more than a couple hundred pounds different. I love the light weight and simplicity of the FWC pop-up, but I wonder how comfortable it is going to be with two people and in very poor (cold/wet) conditions for 1-2 weeks at a time. The lack of storage and the idea of having to remove the bedding every time the top comes down seems like it will get old after some time. There is also the concern that I wouldn't want to have the top popped at certain times to remain somewhat inconspicuous, and I wonder how tolerable a Hawk camper would be with the top down by myself, for a night or two. I am not really interested in other pop-ups as most of them are quite a bit heavier and taller than a Four Wheel, many even come out heavier than a similar sized hard side camper.

The biggest drawbacks for a hard sided camper are obviously going to be a higher profile (both wind resistance and low hanging branches), and figuring out how to occasionally haul a kayak or two. I'm not too concerned about the higher center of gravity, since the hard side would have a similar layout with counters and appliances.

Anyways, lets see some pop-up campers doing what they do best!

 

[John D]

Parking garages, Gateway Arch parking garage, St. Louis is an easy walk to down town night life. Go back to the camper and take a nap while the beer is wearing off. In down town Las Vagas parking garages near convention centers a camper is quite convenient to have near the convention site. Hospital parking garages all over the nation let your popup camper provide an excellent way to keep vigil over the sick. Once parked inside, the camper can usually be popped up, great for camping out at a hospital when a family member is admitted. Dad can wait close by for the new baby, etc. When holding forth, it is very convenient to sleep in the parking lot inside your camper while leaving your cell number with the nurses taking care of a family member.

 

[Barko1]

About the roughest I ever did was Stoney Pass in Colorado, from near Eureka over to the Rio Grande Reservoir. I probably would have damaged a hard side, I probably damaged my Grandby. Width, height, length, were all issues. I've contemplated the hard side, bigger entrance, no popping needed, just stop and walk in, better insulation. But popping is easy, do it at rest stops, moving bedding is no big deal, and last year I spent a month on a 11,000 mile trip to Alaska with my grown daughter and two dogs, still mostly sane. This Fall a trip to Newfoundland is planned and am pleased not to have to push the extra air that a hard sized would. Some of the hardsided ones look top heavy scary, this is much better on an off-camber shelf road

 

[Ted]

Hi Brian,

Based on your concerns of storage space, constantly setting up and breaking down, long term comfort in poor weather, it sounds to me like you might be unhappy with a FWC/ATC no matter what additional roads it opens up to you. That is legitimate as those are limitations with these rigs. That said, here are a couple of links that might give you and idea of what you can do with these campers that you may not be able to do with a hard side.

Mr Johnson's blog has been an inspiration to us. I have gone looking for some of these places (and camped in some of the same spots) based on his pictures alone. Mr. Johnson's photos.

Here is a video of a camper wheeling in Moab. offroading camper

No matter what you get, be sure to post pics so we can check it out.

 

[sotter]

The title says it. I want to see pictures of you guys taking your Four Wheel Campers or All Terrain Campers where a "light weight" hard side camper couldn't make it. I'm not talking about a rough gravel road or a little bit of sand, I want to see pictures of your trucks and campers in some tight spots!

I'm still undecided between a Four Wheel Camper and a light weight hard side, or even a new Four Wheel Camper hard side camper for that matter. I'm hoping that my wife and I will be moving back to Oregon soon (I'm still working toward a different job) and I will have a ton of free time to travel and explore. Half of the time I would be solo, half the time with my wife or a friend.

I'm imagining all of the places I have been and would potentially like to go with a camper, and I'm thinking that there isn't going to be a huge difference between 2' of overall height, given the campers are similar width and the weight is not more than a couple hundred pounds different. I love the light weight and simplicity of the FWC pop-up, but I wonder how comfortable it is going to be with two people and in very poor (cold/wet) conditions for 1-2 weeks at a time. The lack of storage and the idea of having to remove the bedding every time the top comes down seems like it will get old after some time. There is also the concern that I wouldn't want to have the top popped at certain times to remain somewhat inconspicuous, and I wonder how tolerable a Hawk camper would be with the top down by myself, for a night or two. I am not really interested in other pop-ups as most of them are quite a bit heavier and taller than a Four Wheel, many even come out heavier than a similar sized hard side camper.

The biggest drawbacks for a hard sided camper are obviously going to be a higher profile (both wind resistance and low hanging branches), and figuring out how to occasionally haul a kayak or two. I'm not too concerned about the higher center of gravity, since the hard side would have a similar layout with counters and appliances.

Anyways, lets see some pop-up campers doing what they do best!

Brian,
Good question. We recently purchased an All Terrain Ocelot for out 2002 Tundra and first off have to say that we have no complaints so far.All Terrain campers is a joy to work with. We are a family of 3 and we definitely camp in the "fringe" seasons. Our first trip was the White Rim Trail in SE Utah. Although the photos below do not actually show where the road narrowed and had overhanging rocks that might have impacted a taller camper....trust me they were there. I cannot say for sure that a hard side camper would not make it but it certainly would have concerned me more. We traveled this trail in March and had to navigate around lots of snow and mud and had the truck in lots of "off-camber" situations. In fact the linkage in my front sway bar snapped on day two making things a little more precarious. The last 2 weekends were spent in the SW Colorado high country navigating deeply rutted roads with lots of swaying back and forth.

Anyhow it really is up to you and what your needs are. I really like the light weigh of my camper, 650#s dry. We have plans for this summer that include many of our 4wd passes outside of Silverton Colorado and I have no worries taking it just about anywhere I would take the truck without the camper.

As far as pop'ing the camper up and getting set up....matter of minutes.

Good luck in whatever you decide and you have found one of the most useful sites on the internet.

 

[SunMan]

I'm pretty sure a Lance or other full size wouldn't have made it to some of these places...

 

[HERR42]

i have been in a number of heavily forested areas where my hawk barely fit...i have the scars to prove it....well it has the scars.
height has been a real issue more than once. for me low hanging tree branches have left their mark.

i have been in a few ruts on tilted inclines where a higher COG would have made a bad problem a lot worse. You know how a vehicle tends to slide off to one side when going through tricky muddy stuff? then the tires get buried in the soft stuff at the road edge....at that point the vehicle is really tilted. o jeez...watch that branch! gotta keep moving!

everyone has their limits, if your willing to do it then more power to ya! wouldnt it be nice if you could try it out for a while?

what the weight difference? my hawk's label says 695 lbs.

 

[DirtyDog]

 

[brianjwilson]

Thanks for the replies so far!

I don't think I would be 'unhappy' at all with a pop-up, I'm just weighing the pros and cons and trying to decide how I would end up using the camper most of the time. With a pop-up, the camper would stay on all the time. A hard-side would come off occasionally, but the truck would be parked 16 out of 28 days anyway while working and traveling to/from. The other 12 days I wouldn't have any real obligations.

I grew up in Oregon and spent a ton of time offroad, in the mountains, at the dunes, in the desert, etc. All of the rigs I have owned previously have been compact trucks/suvs, generally with small lifts, 33" tires and lockers. So I can think of a ton of places where I couldn't go with a hard side, but many of those are also places I couldn't get to with a full size truck and a Hawk camper either.

However I would like to spend time around Moab as well. Even with a light hard side I would be limited unless I dropped the camper off somewhere. I couldn't care less about parking garages though.

I couldn't say what the weight difference would be at this point. For the purpose of the discussion, lets say that I am comparing a Hawk pop-up to a Hawk hard-side. Both would have a furnace, 3 c.f. fridge, water heater, outside shower, screen door, aux battery, two roof vents, etc. I don't have a solid number for the weight of a well outfitted Hawk.
Any Lance or Six-Pac is out of the question, they are too tall, wide and heavy for what I want.
The absolute biggest camper I would even consider is a Travel Lite 700. It is 7' long, 84" wide, non-basement model and has a similar interior layout as a Hawk. It is wood construction and aluminum sided, and comes standard with a 3 c.f. fridge and a furnace. Fresh water is only 15 gallons, no gray. Portable toilet storage under the couch. Empty weight is said to be 1290lbs with the jacks and everything (the jacks would removed when it's loaded). Considering the Four Wheel HT is 1,046lbs without options, I don't think the weight is going to be more than a couple hundred pounds different. The FWC would have a lower CG because it doesn't have any cabinets up top.

I know we don't normally think of taking any sort of hard sided camper offroad, but I look at pictures and videos of those crazy Aussie's taking hard-sided campers in all kinds of places. I do like a good challenge... lol

So let me ask a few more questions.

Are there times or situations when any of you wish you had a hard-sided camper?

What kind of things do you find to be a hassle when traveling in a pop-up for an extended time? Lots of shuffling your gear around? I don't mind throwing a few bags or containers in the backseat of the truck, but I like to keep things organized.

Is it difficult to keep the inside of the camper dry if you are camping in it for a week in rainy/snowy weather, while traveling and opening/closing the camper every day?

Can you realistically sit up in a Hawk with the top down? I'm imagining staying on the Mountain for a few days while snowboarding and trying to picture how tolerable the camper is with the top down.

If I were still in Oregon I could see just about every camper out there in one day, but there are none here for me to check out. Last time I looked at a four wheel camper was years ago when I had a Ford Ranger, so I was looking at a smaller camper. To top it off, it was at a busy RV show and I couldn't even get in the camper.

Is it wrong for me to want to have two different campers?

I always have the option of unloading the camper and throwing the fiberglass canopy back on when I want to get back in the real rough spots as well.

 

[brianjwilson]

By the way Aaron, your trip reports make me so jealous and home sick!


Has anyone here had first hand experience with Coyote RV / Phoenix Campers?
I like the idea that their campers are all custom made. When I contacted Stan a while back he didn't seem too receptive of the ideas I had for customizing. I think a modified Hawk layout would work well for us, with a 54" cabover (no slide-out bed), and some changes to cabinet/appliance layouts, and maybe a few extra inches in floor length. I think with a stationary bed and a little more cabinet storage so that we wouldn't be digging under the couch constantly, we would be pretty happy.

The other thing I wanted was for the cabover to come down closer to the cab so there was room for bedding with the top down. Looking at Aarons old Hawk on his F150, there was a lot of space between the cab and the cabover section that I would want to utilize inside the camper.

 

[DirtyDog]

By the way Aaron, your trip reports make me so jealous and home sick!


Has anyone here had first hand experience with Coyote RV / Phoenix Campers?
I like the idea that their campers are all custom made. When I contacted Stan a while back he didn't seem too receptive of the ideas I had for customizing. I think a modified Hawk layout would work well for us, with a 54" cabover (no slide-out bed), and some changes to cabinet/appliance layouts, and maybe a few extra inches in floor length. I think with a stationary bed and a little more cabinet storage so that we wouldn't be digging under the couch constantly, we would be pretty happy.

The other thing I wanted was for the cabover to come down closer to the cab so there was room for bedding with the top down. Looking at Aarons old Hawk on his F150, there was a lot of space between the cab and the cabover section that I would want to utilize inside the camper.

I've heard mixed things about the Phoenix campers - I'd do a lot of digging around about them if I were you. Not all FWC campers are going to have that extra space above the cab - that was a situation caused by the deeper than normal bed on the F150, which was accomodated by FWC by building a false floor under the camper.

I think the storage under the couch is pretty useless because its hard to access when you are in the camper. A drawer system would work better there.

 

[DirtyDog]

I should add about the Phoenix campers - I emailed them a couple years ago and tried to just get an approximated base weight for their campers to compare to other manufacturers. They refused to give me a weight until I had gone through the process of specing out the camper how I wanted it. I just wanted an approximate base weight for comparison - this info is available from every other camper manufacturer. I was left with the impression that it just wasn't a very professional outfit.

 

[pods8]

It is wood construction and aluminum sided,

Might want to ask around how well that rig holds up offroad, it my be fine but better check before you assume all campers handle it. Main reason my of us have FWC and they resale high compared to a "skamper" for instance is one isn't going to shake itself into pieces going down washboards.


Are there times or situations when any of you wish you had a hard-sided camper?

There are times I wish I had a shower, room services, etc...

What kind of things do you find to be a hassle when traveling in a pop-up for an extended time? Lots of shuffling your gear around? I don't mind throwing a few bags or containers in the backseat of the truck, but I like to keep things organized.

Any rig that is moving around you're going to have to stow the stuff so it doesn't fall all over. I don't find the aspect this is a pop up rig to alter that too heavily other than making up the bed.

Is it difficult to keep the inside of the camper dry if you are camping in it for a week in rainy/snowy weather, while traveling and opening/closing the camper every day?

I think any camper is likely going to have some issues here if the weather is that rough. Hardside would provide better insulation and condensation protection to be more efficient but I don't see it eliminating the issue.

Can you realistically sit up in a Hawk with the top down? I'm imagining staying on the Mountain for a few days while snowboarding and trying to picture how tolerable the camper is with the top down.

Yes. I've sat in the back reading a book w/ the heat on while waiting for an hour long construction delay before.

 

[brianjwilson]

Aaron I can understand about the weight issue from Phoenix. I think that when you buy from them you are rolling the dice on weight since they are all one-off units. And yes, it is slightly discomforting considering a lot of big name pop-ups are heavier than similar hard-side campers.

I think the average Hawk camper will sit that way on an 04-08 F150. Either way I would like more efficient use of the space and it didn't sound like they were willing to work with it (or the 54" cabover) much. I haven't talked to ATC yet. It may not be a deal breaker anyhow, I'm just over-analyzing a bit as usual.




Okay guys I need more aggressive off-roading pictures to convince me that a hard-side can't get around, after finding these pictures from the White Rim Trail...

This thing is much longer, wider, taller and heavier than anything I would ever want. I bet he got some funny looks!

 

[brianjwilson]

Might want to ask around how well that rig holds up offroad, it my be fine but better check before you assume all campers handle it. Main reason my of us have FWC and they resale high compared to a "skamper" for instance is one isn't going to shake itself into pieces going down washboards.

There are times I wish I had a shower, room services, etc...

Any rig that is moving around you're going to have to stow the stuff so it doesn't fall all over. I don't find the aspect this is a pop up rig to alter that too heavily other than making up the bed.

I think any camper is likely going to have some issues here if the weather is that rough. Hardside would provide better insulation and condensation protection to be more efficient but I don't see it eliminating the issue.

Yes. I've sat in the back reading a book w/ the heat on while waiting for an hour long construction delay before.


Their construction is definitely something to look into. I'm trying to track down owners before considering it too much. I tend to air down and do other things when off road to soften the ride, but I definitely don't want to be worried about shaking it apart. I prefer aluminum construction much more, but I also know that a well-built wood camper can last for years and take some abuse.

And I agree that any camper is going to have moisture and condensation issues. However I am not one to worry about the weather, but I don't want to find pools of water when I raise the top or when I wake up in the morning.

That is good to hear that you can sit up in the camper with the top down. It doesn't have to be extremely comfortable, just doable.

 

[DirtyDog]

Okay guys I need more aggressive off-roading pictures to convince me that a hard-side can't get around, after finding these pictures from the White Rim Trail...


Two things to consider:

1. A lot of the photos posted here depict off-road conditions rougher than they appear in a photo.

2. Regarding that big camper on White Rim - sure you can take just about anything anywhere but you are increasing the chances that you have some kind of serious incident and you are likely going to cause serious damage over time to the camper. Not to mention there is the part about how enjoyable the drive is. The drive is half the fun of these trips for me and I wouldn't want to be hauling a huge hard-sided truck camper in off road, off camber situations etc.

There's an old hippy school bus at Usal beach. That doesn't mean I want to drive a bus off road

 

[brianjwilson]

Two things to consider:

1. A lot of the photos posted here depict off-road conditions rougher than they appear in a photo.

2. Regarding that big camper on White Rim - sure you can take just about anything anywhere but you are increasing the chances that you have some kind of serious incident and you are likely going to cause serious damage over time to the camper. Not to mention there is the part about how enjoyable the drive is. The drive is half the fun of these trips for me and I wouldn't want to be hauling a huge hard-sided truck camper in off road, off camber situations etc.

There's an old hippy school bus at Usal beach. That doesn't mean I want to drive a bus off road


I wouldn't want to take a hard side on that trail either, I just found it amusing.

I am generally more exciting about the journey rather than the destination as well, definitely another point towards a pop-up.

 

[SunMan]

This shot sure looks familiar...didn't think hugging the outside would allow a camper that big through, i'm sure the "oh $hit meter" was pegged going through there.

Ditto on what DD says about pics not truly portraying certian pics...they never seem to do them justice.

 

[RJones]

The pucker factor had to be intense on that trail with that rig!

 

[brianjwilson]

The pucker factor had to be intense on that trail with that rig!


I bet it was! I thought you guys might find those pictures amusing though, I know I did.


And believe me, I know what you guys are saying about pictures not doing justice. I have a hundreds of pictures from different off-roading trips that never look the same on the computer as I remember them.