Whitmore Overlook.... North Rim

[Wallowa]

After our 4-24 to 5-1 stay at Tuweep I am considering the loop down to Whitmore Overlook [1045 past Bar 10 ranch]...my question is concerning the last 7 miles of the road from Bar 10 to overlook...lots of warnings concerning ruined tires in that section, person at Bar 10 said to take "1 or 2 spares"...well with 10 plys on the '05 Tundra/'16 Hawk I am hoping using good judgment I will avoid taking out a tire..

Any comments of how really bad that lower section of 1045 to Whitmore Overlook actually is?

Thanks...Phil

 

[RickD]

I have an '04 Tundra/ATC Ocelot with 10 ply. I find the road to Tuweep is harder on tires because of the sharp limestone. I've never had an issue on either road though. Air down to about 25 (from 40) & go slow.

 

[Wallowa]

Thanks Rick....I am in the "other camp" I keep 60psi in my E-rated 10/ply Kelly tires...old off road motorcycle guy here and higher pressures while giving less contact, traction in soft, prevented tread and sidewall punctures...Tom Shepard/Chris Scott 4x4 and desert vehicle prep recommend maintaining pressure to protect sidewalls and treads; only airing down for sand/mud etc and then airing back up...

Hey, I am not preaching...to each their own, this just has worked for me..

Do appreciate the down load on your view of the two roads....will take it slow and easy on both, lots of time!

Thanks...Phil

 

[RONR]

From the Ranch down to the point is no big deal for a capable high clearance rig. When I had my F150 along with a group of friends in 1/2 ton pickups with FWC’s we have had no problems with the last leg from the Ranch down to the point and back. Yes, we all have E rated tires and reasonable suspension upgrades. But no oversized tires or lifts. It’s not that big of a deal. Just drive according to the rule as slow as possible and as fast as necessary (or is it the other way around [emoji12]). We all air down on dirt for comfort as well as good performance. Thousands of miles on dirt with no issues airing down.

BTW. IMHO Whitmore Point is not quite as nice as Toroweap, at least in off season weekdays when I’ve had the place pretty much alone. However the fun part of Whitmore is you can hike down to the river.

Hope this helps.

 

[Wallowa]

RONR,

Thanks, that does help.

Trying to figure out our routing. We have covered most of Utah but never the N.Rim...56 miles from Tuweep to Whitmore. Chevron station at Pipe Springs closest fuel. Was considering Kelly Point [W. of Whitmore] but that requires a lot of miles and re-fueling. Tentatively aiming for Best Friends @ Kanab, Smokey Mt road to L. Collet, Hole-in-rock [canyon hikes], dinner at Hells Backbone Grill, Burr Trail and exiting N. through Cathedral Valley. All these [except L. Collet] are repeats but worth it! We have as much time as needed, planning at least 30 days.

All that said we may skip Whitmore after 7 nights at Tuweep. Considered staying at Bar 10 but $300+ a night is not in our budget!

I appreciate the information and recommendations from those on the forum..

Phil

Ps...Golden reminds me of my Joshua; for 14 years my best buddy.

 

[RickD]

I've spent considerable time on the North Rim, so I would caution against Kelly Point. I've been out there in a Rubicon & ATV and would not take my truck or anything not set up for extreme off-road. The park service doesn't do any road maintenance in the more remote areas & there's basically a boulder field at one point. Twin Point is off to the west before the road splits to Kelly Point. It looks over much of the same views and is easily accessed. I've done a loop out of St. George to Twin Point, over to Tuweep & out to Kanab. It's about 250 miles so can be done on a tank of gas.

If you go up Smokey Mt. Rd from Big Water check out the Coal Seam fire site. It's a right turn about 1.3 miles after you get to the top of the grade.

Sounds like a great spring trip. I'm usually out in that area until mid-May when the Cedar Gnats show up.

 

[Wallowa]

Rick,

Great advice...will give Twin Point [remember seeing it] a look and possibly include it; Kelly always looked sketchy and now if off our list..we are not much into quick views and leaving...appreciate overnighting in Hawk and hiking at stops...preferably with nobody around! with 26 gal and figuring on 10mpg off road, 250 miles is my limit...hate packing a gas container.

Cedar Gnats! Aghhhhh...first I have ever heard of them...wanted to be out of SW desert before Monsoons make road impassible and create danger of down canyon flash floods...can happen anytime, but June on is beginning of season..

Will pack a sledge hammer in case I encounter those gnats!

Phil

 

[Missing Link]

Phil - Sounds like you have decided to skip Whitmore but I will throw this out anyway. We made that trip in mid April last year and were very pleasantly surprised. While the last six or seven miles require you to move slowly (road surface is covered with small rocks) there is nothing technical or dangerous. I agree with RickD that the road to Toroweep is tougher on tires. One of the things that we were not expecting was the change in desert flora. As you descend from Bar 10 Ranch to the overlook you go from a pinyon-juniper woodland to Sonoran Desert flora which includes barrel cacti, ocotillo, creosote bush, etc., much of which was in bloom (you will be there at the same time of year as we were, so should have a similar experience). Also, at Whitmore you can camp right near the edge and get great views of the river and rafters from your camp. As I said at the outset, our expectations were exceeded and we plan on a return visit in the not too distant future. One more thought, if you do decide to travel from Tuweep to Whitmore, give serious consideration to stopping at Nampaweep on the eastern flank of Mt. Trumbull to see the petroglyphs.

 

[Wallowa]

Phil - Sounds like you have decided to skip Whitmore but I will throw this out anyway. We made that trip in mid April last year and were very pleasantly surprised. While the last six or seven miles require you to move slowly (road surface is covered with small rocks) there is nothing technical or dangerous. I agree with RickD that the road to Toroweep is tougher on tires. One of the things that we were not expecting was the change in desert flora. As you descend from Bar 10 Ranch to the overlook you go from a pinyon-juniper woodland to Sonoran Desert flora which includes barrel cacti, ocotillo, creosote bush, etc., much of which was in bloom (you will be there at the same time of year as we were, so should have a similar experience). Also, at Whitmore you can camp right near the edge and get great views of the river and rafters from your camp. As I said at the outset, our expectations were exceeded and we plan on a return visit in the not too distant future. One more thought, if you do decide to travel from Tuweep to Whitmore, give serious consideration to stopping at Nampaweep on the eastern flank of Mt. Trumbull to see the petroglyphs.

Hey Missing Link,

After hearing good reports from you and others on Whitmore [and road to rim], it and the petroglyphs are on our schedule and will add Twin Point if fuel allows...we are in no hurry and will spend at least one night at each of these rim locations..

Thanks again to everyone for the input....appreciated.

Phil

 

[Missing Link]

Phil - I think you will be pleased with your decision. BTW, there are lots of places to dispersed camp along the road to the Nampaweep trailhead. Keep us posted as your trip unfolds in a few months.

 

[RONR]

Sounds like a great plan. Just checking back with you because I found my tracks from Gaia that shows 202 miles from trail beginning south of St. George to Whitmore point back out over Trumble to Tuweep Cg and out to Pipe Springs. There’s a good hike up Mt. Trumble (even after the fire). I think you’ll pass the old schoolhouse on the route, so stop in. It’s interesting.

Whitmore Point.

 

[Wallowa]

Sounds like a great plan. Just checking back with you because I found my tracks from Gaia that shows 202 miles from trail beginning south of St. George to Whitmore point back out over Trumble to Tuweep Cg and out to Pipe Springs. There’s a good hike up Mt. Trumble (even after the fire). I think you’ll pass the old schoolhouse on the route, so stop in. It’s interesting.

IMG_2023-1-2-093347.jpgWhitmore Point.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Yes that 202 mileage will help in our planning...we planned on going to Tuweep first and from Fredonia but may now duplicate your route....if the mileage total is less doing your route since we would like to add Twin Point but fuel may limit that addition no matter where we start from...otherwise perhaps the Fredonia Road 109 may be less mileage to Tuweep/Whitmore and allow Twin Points..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Alas there are always limiters! I reluctantly use RideGPS for mileage and route mapping....I am a self- proclaimed curmudgeon and always prefer paper maps if available.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Thanks yet again...Phil[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]

 

[Wallowa]

Question: Without any rain issues, which road to N Rim and Trumbull/Tuweep is the most scenic....C5 or Rd109? We have the options of entering/exiting either way.

I see checkout/in at Tuweep CG is 1100 hrs and hope to be there earlier to have a site selection...

Thanks for any observations or advice....Phil

 

[RickD]

C5 is more scenic. Not by a lot though, so it depends on what direction you are coming from.

An alternative if coming from St. George: BLM 1069 leaves St. George going south connecting to C5 to 115 & Tuweep. It passes the Mt. Trumbull Schoolhouse & you can visit the Nampaweap Petrogylphs on the way. It is about an hour longer than the other two routes (not including a a stop at the schoolhouse or Petroglyphs). That might not work though if you are wanting to get to Tuweep early.

 

[Wallowa]

Rick...thanks...coming in from Nevada side and could indeed start on 1069....check-in and check-out time is 1100hrs but we check in on a Monday so hoping weekend crowd out on Sunday. No idea if a 'ranger' checks on folks in and out.

We do plan on the petrogylphs and school house as stops; either going in or out after Tuweep and Whitmore. Last night in route is at Sacto Pass Rec by Great Basin NP. Almost 900 miles from here to Tuweep.

Now planning to spend Sunday night near Nampaweap before first day at Tuweep.

Appreciate your recommendations and observations.

Phil

Ps...Worked as DSO at HSU for 25 years; Shasta was 'just over the hill'; skied the 'hill' several times near the hut.

 

[RickD]

There is a gate at the ranger station before the campground. A volunteer will check your permit. It's open at sunrise.

There are plenty of camping spots right at the Nampaweap TH.

You may have already seen the NPS info on the Mt. Trumbull scenic loop, but here's the link just in case:
https://www.nps.gov/para/planyourvisit/mount-trumbull-scenic-loop-drive.htm

Have a great trip. The GC-Parashant NM is a wonderful place to explore.