Winter Camping/Skiing In A Truck Pop-Up Camper

[melcooke]

I hope this is in the correct forum, I'm sure you'll let me know if it isn't.

Just ordered an ATC Ocelot shell and will (at some point) be using it amongst many other things for winter ski camping. We're in north central Washington state and regularly ski the areas of central British Columbia as well as Washington and Idaho.

I would love to hear the experiences of others who have skied/camped in the winter in the hopes of letting me know how to build out the camper and what sorts of issues we might/will experience.

From the factory we will have the winter pack, propane garage, shore power, extra battery (probably a lithium system) and a 150W solar panel on the roof. The plan to start with will be to use our existing camp stove and the rest of our car camping/kayak camping setup.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Wallowa]

Need for ventilation from inside the camper to outside if using burner of any type inside; fan preferable to passive and roof is best. Especially when bringing wet [ski] cloths/gear inside.

What is a "propane garage" you mention?

Extra battery meaning 2 total? Yes on 2, since you can't count on solar in winter; but most ski areas have hookups...if you are backcountry skiing that is another deal..I personally never trust any combustion inside the camper that is not actively vented outside, preferably a forced air heating unit housed outside the camper with the combustion chamber outside the camper. Two propane tanks if using heater; when and if you put in a refrigerator I prefer a two way that does not need leveling nor uses propane, of course if only Winter camping an ice chest will work.

If not heated then water freezing is an issue inside and this includes any plumbing you are eventually planning. I have never left my forced air furnace on when we are gone out of the camper but if you have shore power a very small electric heater will do nicely. Seldom do we have outside power but we augment or only use a small electric heater if needed when we have shore power.

Good luck! And stay safe this Winter!

Phil

Ps...Need a way to remove snow load off of raised roof...even champagne powder gets heavy!

 

[melcooke]

Thanks Phil. Yes, 2 batteries total. Probably, at least not for a few years (famous last words) will there be any plumbing.

We will on occasion be doing backcountry skiing. Totally agree on the venting. Decisions, decisions and $$ when making additions, not to mention the weight factor. Seems most people are pretty sold on the Fantastic and am thinking about having it pre-wired. I've read that cracking a lower window and opening a non-powered vent enough natural convection occurs. We'll more than likely find out ourselves.

Finding the "right" heat source is really going to be the issue. I've been doing my research and am leaning towards the vented. Just wish the vented did not require power. We'll probably always be a low energy use couple so the weight of built-ins may not be the way I want to go. We generally keeps thing simple and are not new to these types of environments (famous last words again), just not in a pop-up.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Lots of ventilation is needed in the winter. I’d consider two vents, with a fan in the rear vent. Get something under your mattress to keep it from getting soggy. We have HyperVent under ours. You can partially open one of the turnbuckle doors to help get a draft going. Always wipe down the inside of the pop up before lowering the top. Your breath will condense there. Keep as much of your ski gear/clothing outside to minimize the water source.

Consider foam insulation under the floor pack, and under the bed.

As you’re getting propane, I assume that includes a furnace. If not, I would.

Another highly recommended option is to get Yakima tracks.
I hope that helps.

 

[melcooke]

Propane garage = outdoor access to the propane bottle. The bottle is covered on the interior side by some sort of cabinet.

 

[melcooke]

I'll be looking up HyperVent for sure and hadn't thought about under the camper insulation.

2 vents?! It does make sense but once again, the power consumption thing keeps bugging me. I'm thinking there will be some trial and error going on with respect to moisture control. Extra towels it sounds like for wiping the interior moisture.

Would not of thought about the turnbuckle access as a venting source, thanks!

Yes, a propane heat source of some kind.

 

[LuckyDan]

To summarize some past threads on here regarding the question at hand:

Yup, heat is Important. I’d recommend getting the forced air from the factory or similar. On past threads regular winter campers have also went with a Wave or Buddy in addition. The theory is switching to the catalytic once the cabin is warmed up saves battery. As mentioned a good electric will work if you have power available.

Condensation management is huge. Especially if you have to bring all your snowy stuff inside. Venting under the mattress helps. Venting in general helps. IMO a negative to an FWC is their tendency to condense in cold weather. They aren’t alone. If you follow Truck Camper Magazine it’s discussed concerning other brands too.

Insulation helps a lot. My old Grandby cools off real quick when the heat goes off. Lots of people use Reflectix where they can or similar. In addition to venting under the bed mattress a lot of people put Reflectix or foam between the bunk bottom and whatever they vent with. Some even set the whole camper on a sheet of foam insulation to help with the floor. I have no idea how well that helps.

The Arctic Pac or similar around the pop up is paramount. The snow management on the roof as mentioned is paramount.

Good luck.

 

[teledork]

I used a Coleman two burner propane stove in a 4wheel camper for 12 years. I do not recommend it. ATC's propane cabinet/furnace/stove is worth the money IMO and as I mentioned in my build thread I have another propane line to hook up a Wave heater and a 100 W solar panel. to recharge the battery for the furnace blower. I have not experienced much real winter in my new Bobcat so I don't know how the heating will work out yet.

Snow removal tools. I have and will continue to sleep on the floor if there is substantial snow expected overnight. I had a scary moment lowering the pop-up when I could not remove enough of the snow one time.

I have not had the kind of condensation problems other people speak about but I live and ski in the dry climate of the Eastern Sierra and I pay a lot of attention to ventilation.

 

[melcooke]

Jay, thanks for all of your input. Where do you ski? Maybe we'll run across each other sometime.

Can you tell me why you don't recommend using the coleman type of cookstove?

It sounds like you are able to recharge your battery (one? AGM?) with the 100W panel. How many days can you sustain that? We generally only spend a couple of nights out before either returning home or moving to another ski area. We have the luxury of being retired and can ski during the middle of the week. In a perfect world a forced air heating system would be viable without using a generator.

Snow removal tools are also something I would not have thought of, at least initially. Any particular recommendations? Do you carry a ladder that allows you to reach the roof?

We almost exclusively ski in a dry climate so am hoping the condensation will be less a problem than those who ski on the west side of the Cascades.

This forum is really a great source of info and I really do appreciate all of the comments.

Mel

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I used a Coleman two burner propane stove in a 4wheel camper for 12 years. I do not recommend it. ATC's propane cabinet/furnace/stove is worth the money IMO and as I mentioned in my build thread I have another propane line to hook up a Wave heater and a 100 W solar panel. to recharge the battery for the furnace blower. I have not experienced much real winter in my new Bobcat so I don't know how the heating will work out yet.

Snow removal tools. I have and will continue to sleep on the floor if there is substantial snow expected overnight. I had a scary moment lowering the pop-up when I could not remove enough of the snow one time.

I have not had the kind of condensation problems other people speak about but I live and ski in the dry climate of the Eastern Sierra and I pay a lot of attention to ventilation.

 

[teledork]

Jay, thanks for all of your input. Where do you ski? Maybe we'll run across each other sometime.

Can you tell me why you don't recommend using the coleman type of cookstove?

It sounds like you are able to recharge your battery (one? AGM?) with the 100W panel. How many days can you sustain that? We generally only spend a couple of nights out before either returning home or moving to another ski area. We have the luxury of being retired and can ski during the middle of the week. In a perfect world a forced air heating system would be viable without using a generator.

Snow removal tools are also something I would not have thought of, at least initially. Any particular recommendations? Do you carry a ladder that allows you to reach the roof?

We almost exclusively ski in a dry climate so am hoping the condensation will be less a problem than those who ski on the west side of the Cascades.

This forum is really a great source of info and I really do appreciate all of the comments.

Mel

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I used a Coleman two burner propane stove in a 4wheel camper for 12 years. I do not recommend it. ATC's propane cabinet/furnace/stove is worth the money IMO and as I mentioned in my build thread I have another propane line to hook up a Wave heater and a 100 W solar panel. to recharge the battery for the furnace blower. I have not experienced much real winter in my new Bobcat so I don't know how the heating will work out yet.

Snow removal tools. I have and will continue to sleep on the floor if there is substantial snow expected overnight. I had a scary moment lowering the pop-up when I could not remove enough of the snow one time.

I have not had the kind of condensation problems other people speak about but I live and ski in the dry climate of the Eastern Sierra and I pay a lot of attention to ventilation.

You seem to be quoting me so I'll respond.
I ski primarily at Mammoth and June. How 'bout you?
My experience is that the Coleman stove burns dirty (inefficiently?) and I wondered what the smell was sometimes - not propane but a scorched smell even with windows and roof vent open.

I can't answer your question about how long I can last on the 100w panel and one battery because my camper was installed in the middle of February and I only got three trips in before the ski areas closed. And the temperatures were unseasonably warm. Like you I will camp and ski for a few days at a time so it remains to be seen if I need the Wave heater or not.

My ladder is tall enough to reach the windows but not the popped-up roof. I put together a long handled squeegie from pvc pipe (so it can be broken down into smaller pieces) with an angle in it. It may need redesign as it can be kind of floppy. I'll get a photo of it. I also carry two shovels.

Please keep asking questions. I received so much help from people here.

 

[melcooke]

I'm not sure who I'm communicating with about the coleman stove/snow removal tool....Teledork? Pinyon Jay?

Good information about the Coleman stove. We have a different brand camp stove but probably should expect the same results. Bottom line is that is what we are starting with so we'll learn as we go.

I'd like to see your snow squeegee.

 

[teledork]

I'm Teledork. I think the Pinyon Jay is a category of membership (based on how many posts or something?)

 

[steve whiteside]

This was interesting reading. Im expecting my new Grandby in early Oct and also want to take it to Mammoth. I didn't realize the condensation was such an issue. The good news is we dont need to get it right the first time we can adjust through the winter.

Ive used one of these little de-humidifiers in a different trailer with some success. Not sure how much power it pulls but it doesn't seem like much.

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Breeze-Electric-Dehumidifier-Portable/dp/B01DC5PPWM/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3RBR41A532YG1&dchild=1&keywords=dehumidifier&qid=1599965712&sprefix=dehumidifier%2Caps%2C234&sr=8-8

I camped at a place near Tom's Place last winter. Cement outhouses, fire pits and free in winter. A bit of a drive up to mammoth and back though. No one there. It was pretty much my inspiration to buying the FWC.

Steve

 

[steve whiteside]

Lots of ventilation is needed in the winter. I’d consider two vents, with a fan in the rear vent. Get something under your mattress to keep it from getting soggy. We have HyperVent under ours. You can partially open one of the turnbuckle doors to help get a draft going. Always wipe down the inside of the pop up before lowering the top. Your breath will condense there. Keep as much of your ski gear/clothing outside to minimize the water source.

Consider foam insulation under the floor pack, and under the bed.

As you’re getting propane, I assume that includes a furnace. If not, I would.

Another highly recommended option is to get Yakima tracks.
I hope that helps.

Why get the Yakima tracks? Im actually getting them but wondering why you suggest they help with winter camping? My plan is to use them to mount solar.

 

[Kolockum]

I mainly use my camper for winter ski trips around the PNW these days. I love it and it saves us lots of money on hotels and restaurants.

I can't recommend a forced air furnace enough. I can tell you from experience that passive ventilation will not be enough to battle the condensation. The condensation gets fairly rough especially with two people and wet gear and even my electric fan can't always keep up. A little buddy style heater will only make things worse. The furnace allows you to dry out the camper (and make the whole experience 10x better). I often will run it during the day while we are out skiing just to dry out the camper. I do not sleep with the furnace on because the large temperature swings between the furnace cycles makes it hard to sleep. BUT in the morning I turn on the furnace and heat up the camper before I get out of my sleeping bag. Talk about luxury.

Vents. I use a Maxxair electric fan. It is not as high quality as Fantastic but it has a build in rain hood that allows you to open and use it in the rain. This has been a huge life saver for me playing around in the wet PNW winters. I believe all FWC & ATC campers have the vent openings wired for powered fans.

Just for reference on the power I have one 12v 100 amp hour battery and it will last me about 3 days with out charging. Two batteries will allow you to go much longer.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Why get the Yakima tracks? Im actually getting them but wondering why you suggest they help with winter camping? My plan is to use them to mount solar.

They really do nothing for winter camping, but are something a lot of people want after the fact. It’s easier to have it done at the factory.

 

[steve whiteside]

They really do nothing for winter camping, but are something a lot of people want after the fact. It’s easier to have it done at the factory.

good to know!

 

[ski3pin]

They really do nothing for winter camping, but are something a lot of people want after the fact. It’s easier to have it done at the factory.

We carry our skis up top with our ancient Yakima ski racks.

 

[Kolockum]

We carry our skis up top with our ancient Yakima ski racks.

X2. I used to keep them in the camper but got tired of tripping over them and the snow melting off of them.

 

[Big Steve]

17 years of experience and hundreds of nights FWC-based skiing (lift-served, touring, ski mountaineering and some XC), first a 2000 Hawk, then a 2014 Hawk, mostly in the PNW, almost always self-contained (i.e., no plug-in). Indeed, I do not recall ever plugging in when parked at a lift-served area. We live in central WA and have done camper-based skiing throughout WA, MT, ID, OR and a few other states. Roughly 50% lift-served, 50% touring/ski mountaineering, December into June most years, sometimes July in big snow years.

Lots of good advice here. My contributions (not complete):

-- I concur that condensation control/moisture management is a major issue. We daily remove thermal liners and wipe canvas with a ShamWow-type cloth. In colder temps, this requires running the furnace to melt frost (i.e., frozen condensation).

-- DIY Reflectix covers for all windows, attached via velcro, significantly reduces furnace use. IME, it's a game changer for winter camping.

-- IME, furnace fan is, by far, the biggest draw on batteries. (Note that our 2014 Hawk has a more energy efficient fan than the one in our 2000 Hawk.) My wife and I (long-time mountaineers and backpackers) seldom run the furnace while sleeping, instead relying on high quality mountaineering down sleeping bags, sometimes zipped together.

-- I remove the water pump and purge the water lines before each winter, carrying water in jugs during winter

-- We carry a lightweight step ladder and snow rake to remove snow from roof. PNW wet powder is heavy!

-- Part of our moisture management strategy is use of a hitch-mount luggage carrier, which doubles as a porch. Use a wisk broom to remove snow from boots, etc. before entering camper. We plan to get a stormworthy free-standing tent (tall enough to stand up inside) to place outside the door for use as a "mud room" for putting on ski boots, etc.

-- We carry our skis in a DIY 1000D Cordura bag that we strap on our hitch-mount luggage rack. It slides under the truck when we get into position.

We get out alot. It'd be fun to meet up with some other WTW skiers!