Winter Insulation

[Jack]

This is our fourth trip in winter temperatures - but the coldest so far.

I see three major thermal losses: 1, Infiltration of cold air through the turnbuckle doors; 2. Radiation and conduction trhough the windows and 3, conduction throught the pop-up canvas.

Duct tape addresses source 1. The arctic pack addresses source 3.

But what about source 2? This is especially critical in the Eagle, since the thermostat sits under the bed. This means that the thermostat sees a lot of cold from the windows, and even setting the thermostat at 50 degF means that the heater cycles on and off and keeps the sleeping area at 60 degF.

Solution one is to figure out how to modify the thermostat so it can be set to 40 degF. Solution two (much better) is to insulate the windows so that there is a thermal balance between the thermostat and the sleeping area. The best solution s a combination of both - we set the thermostat to sleep at 40 to 45 degF, which is still comfortable. The insulation of the widows means an efficient use of heat..

Any suggestions on how to modify the the thermostat (White-Rodgers)? Any suggestions on how to insulate the windows?

 

[Yukon]

Winter Camping

Very timely topic. This Turkeyday we went up to Canada to Manning Park and found outside temperature to be 5 degrees F. and we froze our buns off that night. We don't like to run heater non-stop. I don't find that my thermostat does anything below ~ 50 degrees. Would like to set it at about 40. Read the thermostat manual and it shows an adjustment but the implecations are that those adjustments don't work if you are using a micro-volt source. The little manual is lousy at best. I was planning to call FWC about this next week to get some info. Anyone have better luck with thermostat? It doesn't even have the company name printed on one-page instructions.

As for windows, I would think a thick window curtain would work.

We found that where we were getting cold was the bottom of the bed becuase it sits above cab and not much insullation. I have been thinking of adding a sleeping bag under us, and maybe even a space blanket under us to reflect heat.

There is a long string of input on this blog regarding the arctic pack. The comments are conflicting. Some folks said there's no need for it, and other's said it was great. I am wondering if the folks to said they don't need arctic pack turn on furnace and let it run almost non-stop all night? I'd worry about battery drain.

This is a great topic and would love to hear more from Winter travelers.

Chris

 

[Kokopelli]

Cold under bed

We found that where we were getting cold was the bottom of the bed becuase it sits above cab and not much insullation. I have been thinking of adding a sleeping bag under us, and maybe even a space blanket under us to reflect heat.

I can't speak to the other questions as I don't have my camper yet, but from many years of winter tent camping in the snow, a thermarest provides great insulation from the cold below and you won't even know you're lying on something cold, plus for the camper it will give you a bit more padding. We're planning on using them under our 2" camper pad for extra comfort and to eliminate the cold from below.

 

[Alex]

I'm considering using this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100020855&N=10000003+90401+527399 cut to size then Velcro it to the side wall and under the mattress.

 

[robbie]

maybe change the thermostat to one that has lower settings. i just bought one for about 40.00 in northern canada. i have a standby furnace that I now have the thermostat set at 40 degrees.
robbie

 

[ScottBailey]

Thermostat Mod

Maybe you could remove the thermostat cover and bend the coil a bit?

 

[Southern Gent]

You are Hardy Souls

Jack, Your Folks up North are tough folks. Down here in Alabama we close the School if the Weather Man even mentions Snow and my wife won't camp with me in the Winter.

 

[craig333]

Your version of cold is much much colder than anything I deal with. I probably haven't camped in anything colder than low twenties. I have no additional insulation and the heater seems to kick on every half hour. Since I don't expect my winter trips to ever be more than weekenders I don't mind letting the heater make up for my lack of insulation.

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

I see three major thermal losses: 1, Infiltration of cold air through the turnbuckle doors; 2. Radiation and conduction through the windows and 3, conduction through the pop-up canvas.

A fourth one is the LPG galvanized sheet-metal box, covered with thin plywood.

Duct tape addresses source 1. The arctic pack addresses source 3.

For source (1) duct tape addresses the direct infiltration of the wind, but not radiation|conduction through 1/8" (nominal) plywood. A better solution is cut-to-fit rigid foam insulation for the holes, faced-over with 1/8" ply.

Radiation and conduction through the windows is best handled with insulating curtains, a la artic pack. I use 1/2" (grey) PVC pipe for curtain rods and Edna has created some nice curtains for our mega-Hawk-rebuild.

Heat loss through the LPG box on my 2000 model Hawk was totally opaque to me until I tore out the original cabinetwork. My solution was to wrap the box in rigid foam and then accommodate the larger girth in my cabinet design.

 

[Yukon]

I'm considering using this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100020855&N=10000003+90401+527399 cut to size then Velcro it to the side wall and under the mattress.
Alex...I tried that web link but it got me into Home depot, but not to this product. Can you say 'what' this item is? Thanks, Chris

 

[Alex]

Chris,
The product is "Reflectix Staple Tab Insulation" it used in home building you can get it at any home depot and it's relative cheap. Easy to work with and remember a member here use it to make some curtain to cover the windows.

Alex

 

[masterplumber]

Reflek tex, Tek foil, etc... are all great insulators - kind of look like foil backed bubble wrap. I'd use them around the LP tank box & other places out of sight. The problem with covering the walls with them is that you get the feeling of living in a tin can. I read somewhere I think on this forum of somebody making curtains that covered the wall & don't forget the door out of moving blankets. Seems like they would provide great insulation & are available in a large variety of colors to match your interior. I'd use velcro to attach them so it would seal out drafts also. Could even make your own artic pak this way - just be sure to use the padded ones & not the single layer ones.

I've slept in my Granby down to about zero & I don't run the heat when sleeping - mostly because my 20 year old heater dosen't cycle very well & I don't have a CO detector. What we usually do is place a thermal rest pad on top of the mattress & then slip one sleeping bag inside another. I've never slept cold doing this. Just be sure to have a towel handy in the morning because all the condensation from your breath will freeze to the ceiling & then create a rain shower in the morning when you heat the camper up to get dressed.
Doug

 

[Jack]

We found that where we were getting cold was the bottom of the bed becuase it sits above cab and not much insullation. I have been thinking of adding a sleeping bag under us, and maybe even a space blanket under us to reflect heat.

Forgot that one. For reasons of comfort, we early on went to K-Mart and got two $8 ensolite pads. We cut them to fit the mattress shape, joined pieces with duct tape, and inserted them into slip covers that we had made for the mattresses. From the scraps, we made a 5" strip the length of the bed that we put under the mattress next to the sliding edge. I know, the princess and the pea, but we just can't feel that little edge under our hips any more.

Thermarest pads are also not a bad choice. We used them tent camping untill we got the FWC three year ago, and they really work in cold weather. The price for two full width ones, however, will take more than a C note.

 

[pvstoy]

Hi Jack,

I have a Atwood thermostat and here is how you change the setting on that model. http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418 Go down until you see the picture.

You can replace your thermostat with any two wire model. You can even move it to a better place on the face that suits your needs better.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Digital Thermostat & Window Insulation

2 weeks ago I cut out individual pieces of the reflective bubble wrap insulation to fit in each window on our Six-Pac camper. WOW, it made a hugh difference in keeping the camper warm over night. I didn't realize how much heat loss was in the windows. I didn't use any velcro, just cut pieces to size, stuck them in the windows, and closed the curtains, they stayed in place very nicely.


I also added a $ 21.00 digital thermostat from Wal-Mart.

AWESOME !!

Best $ 21.00 bucks I have spent on the camper.

Took about 10 minutes to put it in. All you need is a screwdriver.

Just set the temp. you desire, and you are good to go.

You can also see exactly what the current temp. is inside the camper.

I LOVE IT !

Just a few seconds before the furnace turns on, you can hear the thermostat "click" telling the furnace it is time to come on.

I will get some pictures and post them when I have time (my camper is not at work right now).

I don't know how low the temperature setting will allow 40 degrees ?? 45 degrees ?? 50 degrees ?? etc. ?? I will take a look.

Highly recommended by me (just my personal opinion)

 

[DLN]

Stan,

The digital thermostat sounds like a great addition...will likely add one in the future, thanks.

 

[mtn-high]

I've been out more nights in November/Dec than I was in Aug-Oct.! Coldest night so far was 12F. (not cold for here/the Rockies)

A few things we've figured out....

Pads/Arctic Pak

We have the Arctic pac but have yet to use it.

The therm-a-rest pads we once used for tent camping work very well to cover the **windows** on our Hawk @ night. Two full-length pads cover all of the windows on front/side and some of the back. They are the exact height needed to fill the gap between the grey ledge and ther bottom of the side cabinet. The difference is instantaneous and it helps with that problem of the thermostat being too close to the cold front window glass and running you out up top. I have another T-rest and I plan to dig it out and put it under the cabinets/against the side wall if we go out on colder nights than 15 or so. (I seriously want to...it's as much or more fun than summer. No %@#!&*! bugs and no "Travel America" geeks in their rental RV's!) The ther-ma-rest pads store easily under the seats and weigh nothing.

The only night we (OK, the wife) were cold was a night we drove for 5 hours in 20-25F weather and the matteress took a good/cold hit. We learned from that experience to seperate out the blankets and have an extra layer or two to go below you. (the heater keeps your topside WARM)

I also adjusted the cycle time on my furnace. I would rather it run in shorter bursts than cycle forever in 15 the minute "Flame thrower" mode that it was set on when it came from the manufacturer.

Thanks for the tip on the Wally world digi therm...just what I wanted to know, stan!

Something else I've been playing around with on these long evenings is to make a "deflector" shield for the heater that forces the air UP rather than blasts it down/out/into the cushions (couchback for most). This makes sleeping on the bottom bed far more comfortable and helps to even out the temps in the camper (IMO).

If I were going out for a colder experience I'd slap on the Arctic pak and would look into some sort of added insulation to slide in through the turnbuckles access doors/for the outside bottom of the camper.

I love this camper....

mtn

 

[Alex]

mtn,
Thanks for the tip on Therma-rest. Never thought of using it as insulation on the side. We camp out more in Winter as well, it's much less crowded.

 

[Yukon]

Stan,

Can you provide more specific info on this thermostat you got from Walmart?
Thanks. Chris

 

[SunMan]

mtn,
Thanks for the tip on Therma-rest. Never thought of using it as insulation on the side. We camp out more in Winter as well, it's much less crowded.

Ditto, thanks for the thermarest tip. How do you secure the upper portion to keep it from falling down? Or does it wedge in tight enough to stay put?