Winter Use FWC/ATC

[Jon&Sue_DeArman]

Have only had my Ranger for 2 years, but we have logged over 25 ski mountaineering nights at 0 F. We got the Arctic Pack but have never used it. With the heater cycling on low setting it stays about 40 inside. We turn it off at night and crawl into our -5 bags; then turn it back on upon waking. 5-6 minutes later it is 40 again and we get up. Condensation only occurs at the corners where we are sleeping. After it warms up, I simply wipe it off with a microfleese towel. Nothing stops condensation in the cold North West. If you breath, it condensates. Tent, Camper, Cabin, it makes no difference. As for snow load; 3+ inches of wet sloppy stuff is max here. In Colorado, maybe 6 inches. Sue & I together usually drop the back in the morning, then push, what does not slide, off with a snowbroom. If it is a blowing blizzard all night, we just pop-down and sleep on the lower bed; while I worry all night about getting out in the morning. 4 wheel drive can be over rated when you up to you hubs in fresh snow. The Camper is a fantastic shelter in winter snow.....compared to a tent.

Jon & Sue

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

Better than a tent.

Hello All,...Wondering how the FWC/ATC's do for winter use. Some of my concerns are:
- Insulating value of the pop up material: The Palomino sucked it was just fabric and the litecrafts were 2 layers of a weblon material with a closed cell foam sandwiched inbetween. The litecrafts did pretty well.
- Pop Up Lift Mechanism: How is lifting the pop up of a FWC or ATC with Snow/Ice on the roof? The lift mechanisms of these campers are very different from the other ones I have had
- Condensation: I know it is hard to eliminate but I could make it rain in the Lite-Craft and in the Northstar it would stay dry with 2 adults and 2 dogs.
- Looks: I know how cheesy to worry about looks but how does one of these campers look on a Dodge QuadCab. The cabover's of these campers seem a little on the short side. That was the case with my Palomino and I thought it looked awkward....Some options I will be including are
- Ho(t) Water
- Outside Shower
- Eliminate Fridge and replace with 12V cooler
- Wave 3 Catalytic Heater (keeps temps more consistent)


Sledskiing,

With your experience it sounds like you may have a better idea of how they'll do than we do but I'll give this a shot anyway. Taking your questions in order:

• Fabric provides pretty much no insulation at all.
• You lift what's on the roof in the rear, more in the front. the rear is a direct lift of the weight between the back of the camper and half way between the pivot point in the front and the lift point, military press with your knees bent.... The front is worse because a distributed snow load is from half way between the rear hinge point and lift point to the front of the camper. Just depends on how much and how dense/wet the snow is. Solution, scrape it off or melt it off (turn the furnace up high) first.
• We don't have the arctic pack and when it's raining and mid to lower 30's there's a LOT of condensation. We wipe it off but under those conditions it never dries. Arizona in winter at mid 20's is a piece of cake...dries every morning and not much condensation to start with. We would like to add a full inch of ensolite around the fabric with a fabric/vapor barrier inside that to reduce furnace use, noise and condensation...store the ensolite under the bed mattress to add more cushion. In our experience a good mountaineering tent (i.e. North Face VE-25) gets a lot less condensation and our cabin gets none compared to the no arctic-pack FWC with furnace on low at night.
• We have the 48" cab-over on our Grandby on a regular cab Dodge 2500. Looks good to me...no clue if you'd like it on yours. Stan @ FWC has pics of different rigs with FWC's. Bet he'd show you some if he thought you might buy a camper from him
• Susan says the hot water heater is a must. I think it's a pain in cold weather unless you drain it and don't use it. I'm always nervous it will freeze and break the tank when we travel long and can't run the furnace at low (20 deg or less) temps. We'll try a 12V heater (150-300 W) next year when we're traveling in cold temps and see if I'm more comfortable with that.
• The outside shower is great if it's warm out...sub zero it's a b****! We use a little less than a gallon per shower and have a "Paha-Que" outhouse tent that we use with it (most of the time).
• We've really enjoyed the 3CF 3-way fridg. Others really like the 12V Engle or Nova Kool (?...Help me out here Scott). We'd like to see FWC/ATC offer an option with no propane...DC fridg/solar, diesel stove-heater combination (Toyo or Wallas) Winter offers it's own refrigeration so no worries about solar then.
• Don't know the wave 3. We've heard of folks having serious problems using cat. heaters without venting on their boat...sure would be nice to have something not as noisy to heat with as the standard issue though.

We've had the camper since December '08 and spent 2 months + in it in the southwest and then ran through B.C. to Juneau, AK, in late March. We've got 40 years in tents before that, sometimes in serious cold.

Our 2 cents!

Happy Trails!
'birds

P.S. Big excitement at the 'birds house tonight...Humpback feeding in the cove about 300 yards from the house...right at sunset on a beautiful blue sky/flat water day...we've only seen it a few times in the last 20 years. LIFE IS GOOD!

 

[pods8]

Don't know the wave 3. We've heard of folks having serious problems using cat. heaters without venting on their boat...sure would be nice to have something not as noisy to heat with as the standard issue though.


I looked at one of these last year (camping world had a floor model selling for $100) but I held off because I wanted to see what a homemade artic pack, some insulation over the windows, and sealing the drafts would do for me to see if I even needed it. As it was when I was up at baker this last winter for a cold/windy night I only ran my battery bank (210ah) down from 13.1V to 12.8V and that was with some definite drafts (had snow between the door/screen door in the morning). I've already added new weather stripping to the door. I plan to put a 1" foam board under the camper this winder and some foam board and/or reflexive on some of the wood portions. Likely will do reflexive window covers and perhaps polar fleece home made artic pack. We'll see this coming winter how it performs.

 

[ScottBailey]

• we've really enjoyed the 3cf 3-way fridg. Others really like the 12v engle or nova kool (?...help me out here scott). We'd like to see fwc/atc offer an option with no propane...dc fridg/solar, diesel stove-heater combination (toyo or wallas) winter offers it's own refrigeration so no worries about solar then.

The Engel is a first choice if I could find a place to put it with top down, loaded camper access (so, it's a no-go).

The Nova Kool 2600 looks like a drop in replacement for the Dometic in my Panther.

Draw for the Nova Kool is 29 watts/hour at 100% duty. 95 degrees is the 100% duty mark and 75 degrees is about 40% duty (consuming less than 12 watts/hours).

I understand Earthroamer uses the Nova Kool -- although likely a larger unit -- in their trucks. The Nova Kool rep I talked to was very in the know about his product, a refreshing surprise.

I'm sure BOTH ATC and FWC will build a camper with the Nova Kool. And, I hear, FWC is building a diesel appliance option. One fuel rocks.

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

Foam board.

...I plan to put a 1" foam board under the camper this winder and some foam board and/or reflexive on some of the wood portions. Likely will do reflexive window covers and perhaps polar fleece home made artic pack. We'll see this coming winter how it performs.

Pods8,

Are you planning on using the polystyrene/polyurethane (pink/blue) rigid foam boards? If so, will you put 1/4" ply or some such under to distribute the loading over the bed "corrugations"?

The upper run at Mt. Baker still 7th Heaven? Spent a lot of time in the deep powder up there...literally IN it...trying to get my skis back on

Happy Trails!
'birds

 

[pods8]

Are you planning on using the polystyrene/polyurethane (pink/blue) rigid foam boards? If so, will you put 1/4" ply or some such under to distribute the loading over the bed "corrugations"?

I was going to use the ridgid foam board w/ the foil backing. Planning to run just that at first to see how well the load distributes between the bed ridges and the ones under the camper. Its cheap so if it trashes out I can try something else.

 

[Alaskan Snowbirds]

True

I was going to use the ridgid foam board w/ the foil backing. Planning to run just that at first to see how well the load distributes between the bed ridges and the ones under the camper. Its cheap so if it trashes out I can try something else.

Yep, if it works you save some weight/$, if it doesn't you haven't lost much. More important, if you tell me I'll be able to make the right decision and have you do the research

Cheers!
'birds

 

[cmck]

How many days can one expect out of the propane bottle (20lb) using the furnace? Say at around freezing temps. Also what about battery drainage? I am just running a self contained battery with no onboard charging that I am going to charge before I leave home..what happens if the battery dies in the middle of the night while the furnace is running are there any safety concerns?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[craig333]

No safety issues, you just won't have any heat. You'll run down your battery long before you run out of propane. Those tanks last an amazingly long time.

 

[cmck]

No safety issues, you just won't have any heat. You'll run down your battery long before you run out of propane. Those tanks last an amazingly long time.



I went to fill my propane after using the camper for over 15 nights now, just using the stove for breakfast and dinner and I could not believe it was still nearly full.....

Thanks for the info

Chris

 

[specjoe]

I was going to use the ridgid foam board w/ the foil backing. Planning to run just that at first to see how well the load distributes between the bed ridges and the ones under the camper. Its cheap so if it trashes out I can try something else.


Any report on the effectiveness of the ridgid foam board setup? Getting my shell model in late November and wondering if I need it installed on some foam board for the wintertime...

 

[pods8]

Any report on the effectiveness of the ridgid foam board setup? Getting my shell model in late November and wondering if I need it installed on some foam board for the wintertime...


Wife was prego last winter so winter trips were put on hold and I never got around to putting the foam board in yet. Sorry.

I was also thinking if it had issues under the camper that cutting a piece that tightly fit the floor of the camper and then laying down vinyl over that to dispense point loading and have some wear resistance could have potential as well.

 

[Lighthawk]

I'm getting ready for some October nights in the Sierra and Death Valley (Saline Valley) in November. This will be my first winter with a FWC. I found that reflectix is sold in 24" width, which fits perfectly for the pop up section on my Hawk. We tried a six foot scrap secured with self adhesive velcro above our heads on the upper bunk on our last trip and it worked like a charm. I figure my poorman's arctic pack will cost $60 and will take about half an hour to install. Thinking of using velcro to secure roll up flaps where the windows are. I estimate I will have two 16 foot pieces which I hope will roll compact enough to fit behind the couch.

The vinyl floor is much more comfortable and warmer since I put down a $20 remnant of marine grade carpet. I'm also thinking about stapling some reflectix over the gray ply sides with flaps to insulate the turnbuckle access ports. Those 1/8" sliding panels don't impress me much.

 

[HERR42]

I'm getting ready for some October nights in the Sierra and Death Valley (Saline Valley) in November. This will be my first winter with a FWC. I found that reflectix is sold in 24" width, which fits perfectly for the pop up section on my Hawk. We tried a six foot scrap secured with self adhesive velcro above our heads on the upper bunk on our last trip and it worked like a charm. I figure my poorman's arctic pack will cost $60 and will take about half an hour to install. Thinking of using velcro to secure roll up flaps where the windows are. I estimate I will have two 16 foot pieces which I hope will roll compact enough to fit behind the couch.

The vinyl floor is much more comfortable and warmer since I put down a $20 remnant of marine grade carpet. I'm also thinking about stapling some reflectix over the gray ply sides with flaps to insulate the turnbuckle access ports. Those 1/8" sliding panels don't impress me much.



anywhere that you can create a dead-air space will improve the siuation. we used some old material (really goofy - red - with cows) doubled it and i sewed on velcro strips. this is put up around the bunk area only...it just keeps wife from contacting the cold vinyl. it maks a bit of difference.

 

[Overland Hadley]

I'm also thinking about stapling some reflectix over the gray ply sides with flaps to insulate the turnbuckle access ports. Those 1/8" sliding panels don't impress me much.



Good idea.

 

[Hyakian]

[*]We don't have the arctic pack and when it's raining and mid to lower 30's there's a LOT of condensation. We wipe it off but under those conditions it never dries. Arizona in winter at mid 20's is a piece of cake...dries every morning and not much condensation to start with. We would like to add a full inch of ensolite around the fabric with a fabric/vapor barrier inside that to reduce furnace use, noise and condensation...store the ensolite under the bed mattress to add more cushion. In our experience a good mountaineering tent (i.e. North Face VE-25) gets a lot less condensation and our cabin gets none compared to the no arctic-pack FWC with furnace on low at night.


I am wondering how others deal with moisture build up and condensation.
My understanding of propane catalytic heaters is that they put a lot of moisture into the air.
For those of you that are winter camping, how are you getting around this?

I have an Alaskan 10' CO that I will be using for ski/sled safari this Winter and would like to find a way to mitigate moisture build up, especially when we are away for an extended period of time.