Opened Turnbuckles

I bought my mat (3/8") from a local tire shop. They are great, but they can be heavy and awkward to move around, so watch your back.

My turn buckles have never loosened, but they are weak in strength. One failed as I was installing my camper back onto my truck. It wasn't set right and as I was tightening the buckle it snapped. My bad! I have since replaced all four buckles with (American made)forged/galvanized hook to hook buckles. All better now.
 
I consistently find my forward driver turnbuckle loose and once
found it laying on the deck after coming down Lippencott Rd.
I like the Locktite and nylon wing nut suggestions.
I've been thinking of changing to stainless from alluminum.
 
It's been said, but I'll say it again. Stainless steel hardware is roughly Grade 2 in strength. For comparable sized hardware, carbon steel will be stronger to quite a bit stronger. If the load rating of the stainless hardware in the size that fits meets your loading + a reasonable Factor of Safety (2:1 min) and your wallet can stand that strain then it's a reasonable choice. Where strength to weight, strength to size, or strength to cost ratios matter it is not a good choice.
 
I just purchased 2 forged hook and hook turnbuckles made from 316 stainless steel for backups. They have a 750 WLL. I'm not sure what the the turnbuckles are that were installed at the dealer. They are 6" x 3/8" so they match the dealer installed turnbuckles.
 
My friend and I have been studying turnbuckles for her camper. Currently she has 3/8" turnbuckles with what look like aluminum bodies. From googling I think these have a working load limit of about 215 pounds. Home Depot sells a "stainless steel" 3/8" turnbuckle that is rated at only 350 pounds: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lehigh-350-lb-3-8-in-x-8-in-Stainless-Steel-Hook-and-Eye-Turnbuckle-7112S/100117143?N=5yc1vZc2ge . Forged steel 3/8-inch turnbuckles are rated at about 1200 pounds. On eBay are type 316 stainless steel 3/8" turnbuckles rated at 1260 pounds. I believe I read the factor of safety is over four on these. This site advertises a 3/8" type 316 stainless steel turnbuckle with a working load limit of 1200 pounds. https://www.eriggingsupply.com/eshop/list.ASP?ct_lcode=4&ct_mcode=20&ct_scode=84&ct_sub=0 .

Here is some information on type 316 forged stainless steel: http://www.beartechalloys.com/316-stainless-steel.html

From googling for the manufacturer's info, I see the Chicago C-187A eye nut that came with the camper is rated at 0.6 ton = 1240 pounds: http://www.chicagohardware.com/catalog/27_padeyes.pdf

From studying reports of failures at the camper fastening points here, I think the weak point is the OEM camper bolts installed through the plywood. The camper bolts get bending moment applied to them. The turnbuckles and eye nuts are not going to see much if any bending moment. Replacing the camper bolts (the ones that fasten to the eye nuts) with Grade 8 bolts available at Home Depot, Lowes and True Value, and adding 1/4" aluminum backing plate around these bolts (per Cummins_Mike's and others' great posts), is a relatively easy and inexpensive fix.
 
BillM, thanks for posting. The Fastenal store where I live is small and does not carry a stock; we'd have to order. Whether any mail order fits is a bit of a crapshoot for us here, given our experience and that I do not have easy access to my friend's camper. Ebay has 3/8" 6-inch body drop forged turnbuckles rated at about 1000 pounds and inexpensive. They are currently six for about $31 and free shipping. I was going to go with this but could not get enough information about the turnbuckle length and other dimensions. My friend is paying $18 each for two T316 stainless steel ones from eBay. We'll see how they fit and then maybe look for a couple of the less expensive, drop forged ones. I think the T316 is overkill but we were in a bit of a hurry here to get this fitted up for maximum safety to property and life.
 
Take one of the camper and bring it with you to fastenal. Then if its wrong you can easily say no thanks.
 
I wouldn't bother with stainless turn-buckles, particularly those made from 316. For their price a galvanized turn-buckle of the same cost will be significantly stronger, or had better be. 316 is not a high strength alloy. It's claim to fame is corrosion resistance only.
 
We purchased marine stainless steel jaw-jaw turnbuckles to achieve a fail-safe attachment not for corrosion resistance or strength (you do not want a turnbuckle holding up your mast to fail). The marine grade jaw-jaw turnbuckles we ordered had a threaded bolt and cotter pin so they could never come off which is important to us since the camper stays on the truck full time while traversing the continent. We did not want to drill and bolt the camper to the bed as some do (phobia to drilling my truck/camper, treatable by some pill but we have pill phobia too). Unfortunately, you-get-what-you-pay-for in the case of turnbuckles. $20 stainless steel turnbuckles (made in China) had such poor thread machining we carry the two we purchased as spares. Chinese forged turnbuckles can also have poor thread machining. Jaw-jaw turnbuckles in the 1000 pound class with fail-safe attachment and good thread machining were going for $50-100 each. Being too frugal can create odd-ball setups so we designed a 1000 pound safety chain at each tie-down corner in addition to the stock 350 pound aluminum hook-hook turnbuckles. We found chain hooks with a safety clasp at the hardware store and made four short chains for $50 which are slightly loose but engage before the turnbuckles completely fail.
 
Good discussion... Just back yesterday from our initial tour with our new Hawk and F-150. Thirteen days and 1,600 miles from Sac to Death Valley, other Mojave locations and the Carrizo Plain. I'd guess we did about 200 miles of dirt roads, some of them quite washboarded (I've never seen the Harry Wade so rough.) We also had a couple of sharp maneuvers to avoid the inevitable I-5 idjits plus a fairly good whoop-de-doo behind Red Mountain.

I spent a fair amount of time with turnbuckle maintenance which I suppose is to be expected on an initial trip. I tightened a couple of times on the I-5 drive south and then each night or morning in camp. Until the last couple of days, each turnbuckle yielded an eighth to a quarter turn daily. It got to the point where I thought it might be useful to have a permanent "wrench" installed in the slot of each turnbuckle rather than moving one from port to port while trying not to drop it in the bed of the truck. I used a steel, flat, 6" bottle opener.

Now I am concerned a bit about overtightening after reading this discussion but the access is so awkward that it is pretty difficult to put a real hard turn on the hardware with one hand while lying on the floor. Strangely my turnbuckles are installed in a left-tighty configuration which confused me at first. At least they were all the same. I hope to figure out more at the upcoming NorCal campout and whether an upgrade is appropriate.
 
I heard that using a snap link between the camper tie down and the turn buckle is sometimes recommended. FWC installed a snap link on one of my 4 turn buckles. Not sure if it was to increase the reach or allows pivoting to keep correct angle.
 
All four of our turnbuckles has snap links, non-locking carabiners, on our 2016 Hawk on a '05 Tundra. The issue was the turnbuckles were not long enough and dealer needed the links to correct the length issue.

Hopefully the links do not create a weakness in keeping the camper secure in the bed. Not in strength ratings but in movement or pivoting even when tight and under load.

Time will tell.

Phil
 
Has anyone thought about webbing like Black Diamond Dynex, single loop its 22kN, thats like 5000 lbs. I don't know exactly how to rig it but I bet there is a way. Adding knots and twists reduces its strength, but maybe a little slack would be OK. Even at 1/4 its strength 1250 lbs its 4 times stronger than the stock turnbuckles.
 
OK...even after hundreds of posts, maybe not that many :D , but does anybody know:

#1 What is the strength of the FWC turnbuckles currently being installed?

#2 What turnbuckle strength is really required for the different [weights] models of FWC?

As for the use of webbing...well, good question...but not so much because of webbing strength but to facilitate an alignment between the camper eye-bolt and the truck eye-bolt when tightened. The metal links will pivot on turnbuckle but will not conform to the turnbuckle; the webbing would. Plus even a slight elasticity in the webbing could dampen a sudden loading shock.

A lot of experience and talk about busted eye-bolts and straightened out hooks on turnbuckles...my take is that most likely this was due to some slack in the connections and then rapid, forceful, repeated loading. Thing is nobody really knows.

And i could be wrong about all this! :ninja:

Phil
 
I have a 2012 Fleet with the older style single bolt/eyebolt as the camper tie down point. I am ordering the newer stainless steel/3 bolt hanger that they now use. FWC said this is a DIY retrofilt and they cost $12.50 each. So getting those should solve the problem of breaking 3 of those bolts to-date.

I asked them about the turnbuckles also, and they still recommend and use the same aluminum turnbuckles I got with my 2012.
 
Thats the good thing about using webbing. I think you use something like a larks hitch between the camper eye bolt and the truck u bolt. That leaves a loop that goes between. You hook a carabiner on the loop and use it to twist like a tourniquet the strands of the hitch until tight. Then lock the carabiner on either the eye bolt of the u bolt. The twists act like a spring so that the force under some dynamic condition reduce the force on the camper and the truck bed and is absorbed in friction in the twisted webbing.
 
After replacing our turn buckles in December of 2014 with the ones that Stan supplied (post #50) I have yet to have one loosen. We have put a lot of miles on in the past 16 months. We've been full timing for the last 8 months trying to stay off the pavement as much as possible. IMHO if I had those to begin with I would have saved $3800 that it cost to repair the camper plus what it will cost to repair the roof of the cab.
Cheers
 
ah, now we are getting somewhere. I missed that the turnbuckle on the left in your picture was approved by FWC. A quick google search for "M10 turnbuckle", turns up a bunch of 10 mm turn buckles. I've not spent the time to sift through the search results, but I'm interested if anyone does and finds some good candidates.

with the new style camper tie-downs, and new beefier turnbuckles, I'll feel better 20 miles out on a dirt road by myself...


edit - I have an open thread with FWC support about purchasing the new style tie downs. I am calling to order on Monday so I will ask about the 10M turnbuckles Captm references. I just sent them the picture. I'll post here on Monday what I find out.
 
DonC I'd be interested in link to what you buy? My camper is off my truck right now but putting back on soon... I'd like a warm fuzzy of not worrying about turnbuckles. I actually was not worried until this thread ;)
 
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