2018 F-350 manual locking hubs?

[Durango1]

I posted this over on the Expedition Portal site but respect the opinions of this group too. The Ram vs. Ford question is killing me. Thoughts?

FWC has to love me. I just ordered my third FWC in five years- a Flatbed Grandby. Even though we're delighted with our Flatbed Hawk we just wanted a bit more space in back so we're going to go with a regular cab Chassis Cab pickup this time (it is always just Sioux and me) which brings me to my question...

We've been pleased with our 2012 Ram 2500 Crew Cab. It has been very reliable and I've never been stuck. But I want to do my due diligence and look at Ford too. (Chevy doesn't offer a SRW in their Chassis cabs.) Ford and Ram are fairly even in my mind and as Denny Saunders told me, "Steve, they're both good trucks."

But Ford has the manual locking hubs up front while Ram doesn't. Could anyone weigh in if you like or don't like the Ford manual hubs and how and when you use them? I'm a total dummy on them.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

It's been years since I have had a truck with manual hubs, but they work nicely. The obvious down side is you have to get out to lock them in. The up side is that there is less to fail. If memory is with me, I did have one issue on my 2000 F250 with 4WD on the fly.

 

[dharte]

I'm sure the system for auto locking hubs is better now than in my 2005 f250. I found out the hard way my truck wasn't in 4wd due to the vacuum switch going out. Damn near rolled the truck when it slipped sideways off an off-camber muddy road. The 4wd light came on and I thought it was working... For manual hubs you can lock them before you might need 4wd (say at the start of a dirt road or just before you expect to encounter snow on the road)and then engage without getting out of the truck. You still have to stop of course but you won't have to step in a mud puddle. Good luck with your choice-I wish I was able to have this option!!

 

[klahanie]

But Ford has the manual locking hubs up front while Ram doesn't. Could anyone weigh in if you like or don't like the Ford manual hubs and how and when you use them? I'm a total dummy on them.

I can speak a bit to the Ford systems, as I understand them. Ford offers a manual transfer case ("TC") with manual hubs or an auto TC with an electro-vacuum actuated system for the TC and hubs.

The auto TC allows "shift on the fly" with a dash switch (ESOF) so you don't have get out of the cab. But has the potential of failure of the switch or vacuum line components. Importantly, the hubs for the ESOF system have an auto/manual feature so they can be manually selected to "on" if the vacuum (auto) part fails to engage them.

The manual TC means the wife has to get out of the cab to lock or "spin" the hubs if you want 4x4. But, and here's the part I like, if the hubs are not turned and instead are unlocked, the driver can shift the TC into "low 2wd". I've found this useful for very slow speed, tight maneuvering esp. on hard surfaces like a driveway or boat launch *. Of course if the hubs are in the locked position the driver can shift in and out of "high 4wd" while driving up to a certain speed (say 50 mph) But the hubs shouldn't be left locked for highway driving (vibration, unnecessary drag) so the wife has to get out again and spin - while you're airing up ! Another con is the floor shifter takes up space.

*ON EDIT disclaimer: Ford prob advises against this. I've been ok, YMMV.
I'll add that the manual TC has a neutral position, I don't think the ESOF version does, fwiw.

 

[PaulT]

It's easy to get in the habit of locking manual hubs on entry to driving off road or even on gravel roads prior to needing 4WD, for no other reason than just spinning the front drive parts for lubrication. I have often locked manual hubs for one day a month to keep everything lubed. On my 4x4 Tundra, I put it in 4WD going up my steep gravel driveway to accomplish the same purpose. I don't want the front 4WD parts to be used for the first time in months when going up some challenging road 30 miles from help.

Some early after market automatic hubs could free wheel going over a hill & starting downhill when compression breaking was needed. Not confidence inspiring at a transition point.

I, also, liked to use 2WD Lo Range for backing a trailer into a narrow barn door with a manual transmission truck to keep things slow and sane instead of riding the clutch.

Paul

 

[smlobx]

I'm a long time Ford owner and can't remember the last time I saw manual locking hubs on a newer truck. Virtually all I've seen have had the electronic shift on the fly. In my older trucks they did occasionally have problems with the vacuum actuator (I actually kept a spare with me). With the newer ones I have not had any problems so far so hopefully they fixed the issue. If you want manual hubs you'll probably have to order the truck which may be the way to go anyway. I find the ESOF very convenient and use it almost weekly in my construction work.

To my mind the more important question would be the availability of (electronic) locking differentials. I wish I had this option but the deal on my current rig was too good to pass up...

 

[Durango1]

I appreciate allt he advice!

So I really like the idea of being able to go into 2WD low for maximum steering flexibility. But I'm assuming that the ESOF
on the dash won't allow this, only the manual transfer case? Do I have that right?

PS The Ford can be optioned with an electronic locking rear differential. I'll definitely going to specify that in my order.

 

[klahanie]

So I really like the idea of being able to go into 2WD low for maximum steering flexibility. But I'm assuming that the ESOF
on the dash won't allow this, only the manual transfer case? Do I have that right?

This is my understanding with the caution that the current system might be different. Now, whether one could order the ESOF (to avoid the floor shifter) and alter the AUTO feature of the auto hubs (to make them manual off) IDK but suppose it would be possible.

PS The Ford can be optioned with an electronic locking rear differential. I'll definitely going to specify that in my order.

If by chance you do choose the F350 I suggest you re visit the available GVWR and RAWR with your dealer. I could be wrong but I think the standard 10K comes with the 28g mid ship fuel tank, an upgraded GVWR comes with a 40g aft of axle tank and AT tires come with a 7230lb rear axle.

Our rig, with the aft tank and 8' camper set back ~14" on the deck, I'd want more than with the standard 6780lb rear axle, if it was available. OTOH we travel heavy and you may have done weight distribution projections already so this is just my .02

 

[Durango1]

This is my understanding with the caution that the current system might be different. Now, whether one could order the ESOF (to avoid the floor shifter) and alter the AUTO feature of the auto hubs (to make them manual off) IDK but suppose it would be possible.


If by chance you do choose the F350 I suggest you re visit the available GVWR and RAWR with your dealer. I could be wrong but I think the standard 10K comes with the 28g mid ship fuel tank, an upgraded GVWR comes with a 40g aft of axle tank and AT tires come with a 7230lb rear axle.

Our rig, with the aft tank and 8' camper set back ~14" on the deck, I'd want more than with the standard 6780lb rear axle, if it was available. OTOH we travel heavy and you may have done weight distribution projections already so this is just my .02

Excellent info and much appreciated.

I'm not much into mucking around altering a brand new vehicle so likely will go with the manual transfer case and hubs.

Thank you for the reminder on the GVWR. I definitely want more than the 28 gallon tank and as high as a payload rating as possible. We are going with the Chassis Cab and it will be a 9' flatbed with the Grandby placed 18" back so we'll have a transverse garage between the cab and camper! (And we too "travel heavy"!)

 

[Advmoto18]

Excellent info in this thread!

Manual locking hubs are a "special order" item in the Ford "options" book. Like electric v manual roll down windows (not even sure these are still an option as I don't see them in the book), electric locking hubs are actually cheaper to manufacture and install for the manufacturer.

I'm thinking the down side to electric locking hubs is the same for electric locking - lockers, magnetism. A residual electric field may not allow the hub to completely unlock. Perhaps.

During the first ball joint repair of my last two Super Duties, I installed the Warn Premium, a huge improvement over the factory offerings. Of course the older Ford "engage on the fly" hub system was the much maligned (and rightfully so) vacuum system.

Warn also offers a Super Premium hub (with a super price tag) for Super Duties running big tires/wheels in very technical, rock crawling terrain...which I try to avoid in my FWC equipped Super Duty.

I have found the Warn premium hubs to excel in most conditions where I needed 100% lockup.

We have been bouncing around the idea of selling our 2015 Hawk and 2016 F-350 Crew (156" W and buying a F-350 Super Duty Super Cab chassis cab and Grandby flatbed. I have a fabricator helping design a custom spec'd flatbed with a slide out ramp at the camper door allowing my labs to easily ingress/egress the camper. Further, I want to remove the Super Duty back "jumper" seat and install a dog platform in the rear of the cab. It will also have a pull out ramp under the platform so the dogs can ingress/egress the cab.

 

[Moose Dog]

On a silly note, I opted for the manual 4x4 shift-on-the-floor on my F350 due to my very own Pauli Effect where electronics seem to tweak out in my presence. Not a big 4x4er but I'm safety oriented and when I can I opt for manual...and keep me away from your phones, computers, etc..I'm famous among friends and neighbors for this hahaha

FYI I looked around for a long time and then opted to special order my truck which has been REALLY fun. Bonus once the specs were in hand that made a good negotiating point with the dealer because they knew I could walk out with the same specs and look for a better price elsewhere if I didn't like what they offered. ( No need in my case )

Pics when you're done!

PS : nice one on the slide out ramp, Advmoto!

 

[Durango1]

I'm a long time Ford owner and can't remember the last time I saw manual locking hubs on a newer truck. Virtually all I've seen have had the electronic shift on the fly. In my older trucks they did occasionally have problems with the vacuum actuator (I actually kept a spare with me). With the newer ones I have not had any problems so far so hopefully they fixed the issue. If you want manual hubs you'll probably have to order the truck which may be the way to go anyway. I find the ESOF very convenient and use it almost weekly in my construction work.

To my mind the more important question would be the availability of (electronic) locking differentials. I wish I had this option but the deal on my current rig was too good to pass up...

Yes, Ford does offer an electronic locking differential with a 4.30 ration which is what we'll order if we go with Ford.

 

[Durango1]

We have been bouncing around the idea of selling our 2015 Hawk and 2016 F-350 Crew (156" W and buying a F-350 Super Duty Super Cab chassis cab and Grandby flatbed. I have a fabricator helping design a custom spec'd flatbed with a slide out ramp at the camper door allowing my labs to easily ingress/egress the camper. Further, I want to remove the Super Duty back "jumper" seat and install a dog platform in the rear of the cab. It will also have a pull out ramp under the platform so the dogs can ingress/egress the cab.

I really wanted the Super Cab because it can be ordered with higher trim levels. BUT with the 9' bed on a Chassis Cab it is just too long for where we like to go. I do have a lot of design ideas on custom flatbeds if you are interested. If you do a Chassis Cab then ask your fabricator about doing a "shovel box" between the rails.

 

[Riverrunner]

I ordered mine with manual hubs and the 4.30 e-locker. I probably use 4x4 more than most as I have to be in 4wd to get my boat and new travel trailer to the house. I don't find it to be big deal to get out lock the hubs in. Sure the ESOF is more convenient but the manuals are more reliable. On my 2000 I had a couple instances when the vaccum hose was rotten and the hubs wouldn't lock so I had to manually lock them anyway. The leveler on the floor doesn't bother me either. I have no regrets going old school.

 

[Durango1]

Sure the ESOF is more convenient but the manuals are more reliable. On my 2000 I had a couple instances when the vaccum hose was rotten and the hubs wouldn't lock so I had to manually lock them anyway. The leveler on the floor doesn't bother me either. I have no regrets going old school.

So if I understand this even if the ESOF doesn't work all you have to do is lock in the hubs manually and good-to-go? I was all ready to go with the manual transfer case but now it appears in the Lariat trim level (for the wife) only the ESOF is available.

 

[Advmoto18]

I really wanted the Super Cab because it can be ordered with higher trim levels. BUT with the 9' bed on a Chassis Cab it is just too long for where we like to go. I do have a lot of design ideas on custom flatbeds if you are interested. If you do a Chassis Cab then ask your fabricator about doing a "shovel box" between the rails.

Thanks Durango for the offer on your design ideas.

I think the 9' rails aft of the cab are on the 84" CA SuperCab version with its 191.9" wheel base. This truck has an OAL of 277.4" in the SuperCab. I think the frame rails are shorter on the 60" CA SuperCab with the 167.9" wheel base and 253.3" OAL. The rail distance is shorter between the rear axle and aft cabin wall. All models have 47.2" from rear axle to end of frame (aft). 2018 Chassis Cab specs.

In comparison, a 2018 F-350 LWB pickup is 164.2" and an OAL of 254.4". Thus, the 60"SuperCab version is slightly shorter than the the F-350 LWB pickup due to the fact the chassis cab does not have a bumper installed. Once the chassis cab is equipped with flatbed and rear bumper, I think it will be very close to the OAL of a F-350 pickup.

 

[klahanie]

^ Advmoto18, I think of it this way, the C&Cs have a longer CA (~4") and longer frame rear overhang (~12") vs a similar PU unless you shorten the frame (like a tow truck). True you could save length with a slim or no rear bumper but the lack of under frame spare tire storage will likely add something to OAL. On top of that Ford has increased the cab lengths for the 2017+ SD. So these trucks are getting longer and can be challenged by even a low level deactivation that a Taco would laugh at (below WB is 162")

I can't find a pic of "turning around" but have been in that awkward position of the truck turned across the road with both front and rear ends in the trees (tip: carry saw).

What I'm trying to say is I think a C&C will almost always end up longer than a comparable PU and it will be loong at that. They have their pros and cons for sure.

And further to what Durango1 wrote, yes, same for us, there are a lot of desirable places a longer truck can't go but I like to think of the places it can. Takes a bit more driving tho ...

 

[Riverrunner]

So if I understand this even if the ESOF doesn't work all you have to do is lock in the hubs manually and good-to-go? I was all ready to go with the manual transfer case but now it appears in the Lariat trim level (for the wife) only the ESOF is available.

Yes. ESOF hubs are "auto" or "lock". If there is no vaccum to engage the hub you can manually do it. However when you turn the 4x4 dial, it takes an electric motor in the t-case to engage 4wd. That electric motor is a possible point of failure as well. The manual system is well... manual.

My wife tried hard to get me to buy the lariat. Wasn't gonna happen. She got aftermarket heated seats as the consolation prize and I saved thousands on fluff I have zero use for.

 

[Durango1]

Yeah, it is mostly the seats being non-adjustable on the Ford that is the cruncher right now. Yes, I know that is crazy but Sioux is having a hard time seeing over the steering wheel. I'd even buy the Lariat to resolve it but that means going to the Super Cab's 168" wheelbase and with the places we go that's a non-starter.

So Riverrunner, can you share where you got your after-market seats?

Thanks!

 

[Advmoto18]

We put long days and miles to get to where you guys camp...

We will soon be on the SC coast, so that is an additional day to get to TX/NM border on I-40.

So, the comfort of the Lariat far surpasses the XLT model. My 2003 7.3 was an XLT. A great truck, but, comfort for long days on the road was a minus. A BIG MINUS.

I can, even though prefer not too, put in 14 hours of driving the Lariat with no ill side effects. I felt like I'd been beat with a baseball bat driving the XLT. And I had upgraded to OME F-350 springs on the XLT which offered a wonderful ride. I will soon have more compliant springs on the rear of my F-350, if I decide to keep it.