9 Million Acres At Stake In Utah!

I have been using the outdoors for 50+ years and the so called impact from bad OHV's are maybe 3% that means there are 97% good and responsible. so how do you keep the 3% from changing your life and making things worse, Get involved! don't think someone else is going to do something to fix it.write your local Rep. make record of the letters, Vote! keep in touch with local forest service and Game wardens,use forums like this,volunter to help.the 3% who abuse our forest need to be stopped and we need more enforsement.there are enough laws on the books just need more people and eyes to enforse them and this means you,report what you see.Hey just my thoughts on trying to get people involved and keep public lands open for all and responsible OHV users.none of this happens over night and it's never easy.
 
They started with 3.5 million acres, jumped that up to 5 million, and now its over 9 million acres. I tend to doubt that will be the end of it, especially given their financial situation. I wouldn't give up the gravy train either.

From wikipedia--In the late 1990s, SUWA began building a large endowment from grants. The Pew Charitable Trusts and the Wyss Foundation were particularly generous. As of 2004, SUWA had amassed almost $5 million. Swiss-born billionaire Hansjorg Wyssjoined the board of SUWA in 1996 and later financed a new $1.4 millionSalt Lake City headquarters. Though SUWA has been able raise large sumsof money over the last decade its membership numbers have declined 30%from a high of 20,000 to 14,000 [5]Still, SUWA maintains that 70 percent of their funding comes frommembership dues and donations, and roughly 80 percent of theorganization's income is spent on program work.[6]

Atvs are a problem but I don't think Wilderness is the way to deal with that. They shouldn't be linked. Either the land is worthy of Wilderness designation or its not. Atv's need to be dealt with with education and enforcement.
 
The Wilderness Act and Endangered Species Act, although well intentioned at their conception, have become tools for groups that would like to eliminate all human activity on public land. The groups backing these proposals are well funded by well meaning people who probably don't spend much time in the wild. The wilderness designation is usually too drastic of an action to correct resource damage. There are other land use designations and resource management techniques that could be used.

Having started this Jeep obsession in the early 60's I've seen trail use and damage increase through the years but it's not all caused by vehicles. I've seen trash and damage from hikers, hunters, fishermen, horseback riders and yes that dog turd on your shoe. We all leave a footprint and have to do what we can to clean up after ourselves.

I use a Jeep to access the back country not because I'm lazy but because I'm a gearhead who enjoys building, modifying and rebuilding a vehicle that will go to challenging places. This vehicle has also allowed my children to enjoy the back country since a very early age.

The main problem is that there are just too many people using the available resources. Short of an atomic war or plague I'm not sure how we solve that problem. Education, enforcement and banning Bud light will help.
 
Well the good news is.... we are having a discussion about a difficult topic and keeping it civil. This is the way to get things done guys, thanks for that :)
 
I hear what you're saying, Dick....and I understand the concern of those who only use motorized vehiclesd to "recreate"...but I storngly disagee with your assessment that such designations are brought about by people who want ALL use on the land stopped. not true. there are MANY uses left that can be taken advantage of on these Public Lands...the uses just aren't linked to motorized/destructive travel.

Yeah phird...there's nothing that makes me madder than backpacking 10 miles >in< and hearing an ATV. Wilderness designation ensures this won't happen.

There are many areas designated as places to ride/drive off-road vehicles just as there are many areas set aside that are FREE from such destructive uses. I also see them as seperate actions. Seperate uses...seperate VISIONS of what the future should look like....and lastly..seperate opinions regarding a respect for Nature and the land.

It'd be great to think that 97% of the people could control the other 3% who do the most damage...but short of shooting em off their ATV I have no idea how you instill any common sense in folks like this who just don't seem to care and have a vision of the future that only extends to their next meal.

"Would you like to super size that?"

much respect all around.....

mtn
 
Indeed, Mtn.

For a perspective on this issue you might read 'Collapse' by Jared Diamond. OK, it is pretty thick, but reading the sections dealing with how Japan continues to have viable forest lands, how Haiti differs from its next door neighbor, the Dominican Republic, and why there ain't no palm trees on Easter Island might give some insight into the problem we all face.

I don't think education is going to solve the problem of those who trash the recreation areas. I also think that limiting some of these areas to foot or horseback travel only will ameliorate the problem. It may cut the amount of trash down, but there will be trash. Having recently camped next to a trailhead into a wilderness area, I can say there probably was less trash left in the wilderness by the groups using the trailhead since they left a lot of it around the trailhead campsite. There was a trash bin less than 100 yards away left unused.

I don't know the answers, but I think we need to be thinking about them now. It wasn't long ago that the 4 corners power plant pollution plume was invading Mesa Verde canyons and was the only man made object visible from space. The pollution is lessened now, but it took pretty drastic action to get that to happen.
 
When I say "education" I mean from an early age. Not once they've already started riding. Not that its ever "too" late, but why wait. Teach em in grade school. I kind of lump education and peer pressure together too. My personal observation has been, the problem guys don't belong to clubs, associations or any organizations. Nor unfortunately, do they frequent forums where they can be enlightened :cautious:
 
I think the "education" comes more from our examples as parents/etc. than it ever can from school/etc.

Parents that haul a 5th wheeler and never tent camp, backpack, or go hiking will have kids who believe that *camping" means that you basically haul ALL of the same creature comforts with you that you have at home and you *camp* in climate controlled comfort on an asphalt pad.

Oh...and are there showers and flushing toilets? Maybe a Nature Walk so we can experience "it"? Can we get satellite reception here?

Camping? Wow. More like SAD.

On other fronts on this same topic.... it always amazes me (and I am guilty of this) that we discuss the topic of "Wilderness" and the land it will "lock up" yet we rarely discuss the impact that CATTLE are having on the West.....all at BOTTOM BASEMENT prices. The "ranchers" are the ones we should be going after...because while the ATV's ARE certainly destructive to some overused areas...the cows are a detriment to REMOTE areas where they go and crap..tromp..and eat the vegetation down to nil. All of this is an area (the West) that doesn't rejuvenate like the land "back East" does.

No...these lands aren't "closed" to use...but as many of you know...many a good campsite has been ruined by cowpies and general trapsing of these unregulated creatures and the land takes yet another hit.

Wouldn't YOU like to lease acreage and use it as you please for about $1 per acre? Talk about a crime and the selling of our land for no real purpose!

mtn
 
For some camping means a slower internet connection :eek: The rancher issue is a tough one. On one hand you have families/communities that have been independently working hard as hell for generations to make an honest living providing products (burgers) that are in demand. I think ranchers get **** on(no pun intended) in ways that wouldn't be tolerated with other groups. Most are bustin there butts just to make enough to support their families with no guarantees. But as Mtn says cows, and sheep, trample the environment especially the riparian areas. I know some progress is being made but the solutions aren't always quick and easy.
 
I think the "education" comes more from our examples as parents/etc. than it ever can from school/etc.

Parents that haul a 5th wheeler and never tent camp, backpack, or go hiking will have kids who believe that *camping" means that you basically haul ALL of the same creature comforts with you that you have at home and you *camp* in climate controlled comfort on an asphalt pad.

Oh...and are there showers and flushing toilets? Maybe a Nature Walk so we can experience "it"? Can we get satellite reception here?

Camping? Wow. More like SAD.

Yes, but not everyone is lucky enough to have had parents like ours that taught us the right way. I agree it would be preferable, but we need to do something for the kids whos parents wonder where you plug in the coleman lantern.

Hmm, didn't quote properly. I'll work on that.
 
On other fronts on this same topic.... it always amazes me (and I am guilty of this) that we discuss the topic of "Wilderness" and the land it will "lock up" yet we rarely discuss the impact that CATTLE are having on the West.....all at BOTTOM BASEMENT prices. The "ranchers" are the ones we should be going after...because while the ATV's ARE certainly destructive to some overused areas...the cows are a detriment to REMOTE areas where they go and crap..tromp..and eat the vegetation down to nil. All of this is an area (the West) that doesn't rejuvenate like the land "back East" does.

When doing a hike to Capitol Lake this past Summer, I was really surprised to see cattle at over 12,000 feet where there is extremely delicate vegetation. I mean, I know these folks have agreements in terms of use, but what are they THINKING? I was appalled to see all of the pies and trampled, eaten alpine growth and none of the wildflowers I was accustomed to seeing. The attached photos are the same place believe it or not, the cattle being on the far side of the lake in the center green patch in the latter photo.

As for land use, it is only going to get more embroiled I am afraid, for ever since the industrial revolution, there has been a population explosion of such an enormous scale that if one compares our planet to a single living creature, then humanity's unbridled growth and placement on this living creature very closely resembles a person contracting a rare but swift terminal disease. This has been apparent to me since I was very young, probably around age 6, it is a natural instinct I have had not unlike what an animal feels about it's habitat. It has both a blessing and burden been.

This is the number one problem we face, we have evolved in terms of both socio-economic and technological aspects but actually de-evolved in terms of the "Natural Instinct". We are increasingly more creature comforted, more technologically connected and more abusive of our own bodies. But at the same time, I have never seen a living creature so utterly disconnected from it's habitat than a modern human being.

Human's are surely smart enough to get in trouble on this planet, but I don't think we are quite smart or evolved enough to stay out of it...at least not in time to prevent our eventual demise. So while I was an angry young man in my teens and 20's, passionate about whooping some ignorant a$$, I am now far more contemplative with introspection about my own connection with the natural world and how that relates to others. We are so selfish as a being on this planet that we don't even realize how disconnected we are. We have to constantly refer to humanity when the tough questions arise in terms of global needs as we speak of saving lands for our grandchildren when ultimately it's just the right thing to do, period.

We let the Spotted Owl needlessly take the brunt of an issue to the point that opposition is pissed at a bird when the real problem is that the Owl is merely a symptom of a bigger problem, resulting in wasted intelligence, emotional energy, money and further partisanship.

But I have peacefully come to terms with the notion that at this point in Earth's history, nature will surely spit this bad meal out. But that does not stop me from wanting to be ever mindful of my connection to this world and how to better articulate the idea to others that all the answers to every problem we might ever encounter as a living creature on Earth lie within her prodigious bounds.

So despite what we are likely in store for as a species, we still need to try harder….not for our future generations, but because it's just the right thing to do.

In terms of what the "Natural Instinct" is, it really ought not to take science to tell us what we are doing wrong. For although it was a simple public service announcement on Earth Day in 1971, seeing a tear shed from the stare of "Iron Eyes Cody" really does spell out that once you truly feel the pain of what our race has done, you will be liberated from the plague of not having the "Natural Instinct" and you will inherently, not unlike breathing or eating, know *exactly* what to do…

So continue not to trample or even recreate in, but rather connect with and Wander the West….
 

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Thanks Kodachrome, both for the post and the pics. I still think 'Collapse' gives a point of view that more people need to think about. Too often, in smaller contexts, humans have inflicted damage on the environment that cannot be undone. In other contexts, through analysis of a problem and action before damage became too great, humans have preserved natural areas that are open to all for limited, controlled use. The choice seems to be allow 'anything goes' usage in pursuit of money, fame, individual fulfillment, or whatever else, OR impose reasonable sanctions upon usage that will preserve. The 'anything goes' approach usually leads to destruction of the environment so no one can enjoy what was once there. Where is the line in regulation? That is the question we need to deal with.

Should we look at what 'development' has done to the environment? Maybe later.
 
Regardless of what the answer is to our fate, it is often the scale of impact we have had in what is a mere uber-fraction of a second in terms of the planet's life time that eludes us. So what we no longer have the instinct to address, will continue to be our ultimate demise as a species as we recklessly consume, expel and take everything with it. To put it in perspective, take a look at how shocking this is:

http://www.chrisjordan.com/

If you can make it past the top subject ( Midway, Gyre ) without being scared sh_tless, look at the other work to get a full sense of scale of the *Massive* and instantaneous detonation that is humanity.
 
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