Air bags out .....springs in?

[Fish Chaser]

OK I'm looking for a little advice here. I outfitted my 2007 Sierra 1500 Z71 4X4 with Firestone ride rite air bags to restore my stock ride height and handle the weight of my +-1200 pound loaded Hawk. They have been on the truck all of 6 months and I have lost one to a broken bolt, repaired it on the trail and now tonight after inspecting them it looks like I could lose the other any time. We determined the problem to be that the airbags cant handle the articulation of the suspension in rougher off road use. With one wheel in a deep drop the airbag prevents the the normal possible articulation and lifts that wheel off the ground prematurely, In essence hanging one side of the rear end by the air bags, stressing the mount, the bolts, and the bags themselves.

Other than limiting straps limiting the articulation even more, or some major modifications to somehow let the mounts travel at some point, I think I'm going to have to go another route. The airbags have been great on the street, but this is a 4WD with a FWC and while I'm not generally going on extreme trails suited for only highly modified vehicles, I want to be able to take some reasonably hard trails without my suspension falling apart.

4X friends are suggesting I go with a custom leaf spring package, probably Deaver. That made the most sense initially, but I went with the airbags based on a lot of good experience on this and various forums, and also the need for adjustability. Good springs are a fair sized investment and would be built to accommodate the camper weight, if I took the camper off for a while, or for good, I'd have a truck with a very stiff ride in the back I assume.

So I'm looking for thoughts any other viable options, that would be less permanent and maybe cheaper the custom leafs and would hold up off road. I had a decent add a leaf setup on my last truck but the ride kind of sucked and they started to creak in a few months.

 

[Overland Hadley]

I love my Timbrens.

 

[mtn-high]

I'll second that.

 

[billharr]

I have not tried these but have looked at them as an addition. May be a quick and cheaper fix than springs.
Daystar Air Bag Cradle Kit

If I left my camper on all the time I would do springs but I do take mine on and off.

Bill in Stockton

 

[ntsqd]

A friend of mine drilled the ends of his over-load leaves and installs urethane bump-stops in those holes when he's going to tow his fifthwheel toybox. The bumps make early contact with the tabs on the frame that the OAL's are intended to hit, which brings them into play earlier in the compression travel. Can vary the bump height to 'tune' when that happens and how much load is moved tot eh OAL's.

I have seen guys make tapered guides for air springs so that the extension travel beyond the range of the air spring isn't lost, yet the tapered guides laterally locate the base of the air spring when it's under load.

If the camper stays on the truck I'd look into a good set of springs. There are other mfg's out there. Valley Spring in the San Joaquin Valley somewhere has a good rep. So did/does (been a while since I've paid any attention, so they may or may not still) Alcan Spring in CO somewhere (West Slope?).

 

[SunMan]

You need stronger grade bolts, the ones provided by Firestone are crap. There are some posts here regarding that problem. Good luck either way.

 

[ski3pin]

We put a set of custom deaver springs on our truck and love them. Yeah, it rides like a truck with the camper off with the ass end up in the air. If I'm dealing with snow conditions here at home, I add a few hundred pounds in the back. I'm happy to put up with that for the service out of these springs with the camper on. The old springs are stored around here somewhere.

You're doing the right thing in exploring all your options and it's great to have this avenue for folks to share their experiences. Good luck.

 

[chnlisle]

Some of my customers use both. My customer with the Deaver Springs loves his set up and has used it on very demanding trips.

 

[Lighthawk]

You need stronger grade bolts, the ones provided by Firestone are crap. There are some posts here regarding that problem. Good luck either way.


Sunni is correct. I broke two bolts on one DV trip, driving washboard. I invested $15 and replaced them with grade 8's and have had no problems since, including more DV and other rough country.

I pulled the camper off this week, and it's pretty nice to let out the air and watch the truck level back down.

 

[Smokecreek1]

Guys we had a real good thread on this earlier this year, maybe Mark can find it again, but it helped me make up my mind on what to do. My air bags kept blowing out and driving the bracket into the inside of my tire and no matter what Les Swabb could do it kept happening-four times! One of my major problems was a Granby on a 1/2 F-150 4x4-luckily it always happened in town not out in the back country. Ford sent me to a specialty shop in Red Bluff, Ca (Moores Blacksmith Shop) and they put on 3/4 type specially made springs that turned my 1/2 into a 3/4 ton. Best $500.00 I ever spent. My old truck works like a charm now-no problems. Have pictures if any one is interested and will post.

Smoke

 

[Ted]

The bags have worked well for us but we don't off road that hard. If your camper is on full time, go with springs. If it isn't just know your ride will be rough when the truck is unloaded.

 

[HiCap]

The bags have worked well for us but we don't off road that hard. If your camper is on full time, go with springs. If it isn't just know your ride will be rough when the truck is unloaded.


I was keeping 40 PSI or more in air bags on my 2010 Chevrolet 4x4, put leveling kit on front. Back of truck was higher with the 40-45 PSI setting. Problem was it removed all the weight off my rear leaf springs, rode like a solid axel, all the spring in front of truck. I did not like the way the truck road, so put better shocks on front and rear. Replaced the stock lift block in rear with 3 inch block kit, now can run 15 PSI in rear air bags and have good ride and rear height about the same as when I had 40-45 psi the air bags.

Because the truck gas tank, stove, propane bottles, cabinets, sink, and refrigerator are all on the drivers side of truck, I have an unbalanced load. Need to pack all heavy gear to passenger side under bed storage in camper. May put a little extra air in air bag on drivers side also.

What PSI are you running in your rear air bags and have you noticed bad ride with too much PSI in air bags?

 

[WaltK]

My 2000 Ranger 4x4 had springs that were dead anyway when I started looking for my FWC so I went from the 3 leaf standard springs with their rating of 1250 lbs to 5 leaf two stage springs which upped my rating to 1750 lbs, more than enough for the Eagle. Two stage springs are designed to handle a wider range of load without making the road too harsh and I've made runs from across the country with the truck completely empty to also across the country with the Eagle and a bunch of extra stuff on. And a lot in between. Barely notice any stiffness with the truck empty, especially once the springs had a little use, The truck rides 1" higher in the back empty, much higher than it did with the old springs. I actually rarely ride with the truck absolutely empty, but usually with a few hundred lbs at least in it's bed. With the Eagle plus load the Ranger is riding level and very smooth. So far the roughest has been 1' plus size rocks "paving" a Utah back road. Which it handled just fine though I was not racing, I was trying to keep my teeth and a few such things.

I did also replace the well worn Bilsteins on the truck with new ones at the same time. That probably improved the ride as much as the springs did. I don't go outback 4x4 for that of itself so don't deliberately bash my truck in rough country. It's transport wherever I want to go and even though I get in real rough stuff I'm always aware anything I break will cost money and time to fix.

Better to go with a system designed completely for the job than trying patchwork with air bags, add a leaf or such. I'm quite happy with the springs, it was worth the money and not that much cost difference either as I did my own work fitting them. Talk to some of the spring folks and see what they can come up with. Even my U bolts got upped in size after talking to those folks. The suspension operates as designed, all parts matched to work together. I have confidence in my truck to get me there and back. Without repairs, and do so for many years. That's what doing it right gets you.

I got my springs, shackles, new bolts and custom U bolts from SDTruckSprings.com, though in looking around there were a number of good choices.

 

[Fish Chaser]

Because the truck gas tank, stove, propane bottles, cabinets, sink, and refrigerator are all on the drivers side of truck, I have an unbalanced load. Need to pack all heavy gear to passenger side under bed storage in camper. May put a little extra air in air bag on drivers side also.

What PSI are you running in your rear air bags and have you noticed bad ride with too much PSI in air bags?


Like you my rigs weights way more on the drivers side, I have all you have plus a hot water heater. My own rather large carcass just adds to that issue. I measured the height of the top of my fender opening to the ground, installed camper and airbags and measured again. I aired it up till I was back to stock, about 80# on the left and 60# on the right. The ride was OK but bouncy, replaced the worn shocks with upgraded Bilstien 5100s all around and it rode fine. I was quite happy until the first serious off road trip broke a bolt. As suggested I could replace the bolts with grade 8 and that's a consideration. The Daystar airbag cradles suggested seem like a viable option too, since just replacing the bolt does not solve the suspension drop issue and I can tell the bag itself will probably end up failing.

I'm not far from Deaver Springs so I may go see them early this week, I called already and they suggested I let them evaluate my rig and problem. I have plans to do the mojave road in two weeks, it's not rough off road at all, but it's a lot of miles. I think I really have to sort this out and fix it by then.

 

[Fish Chaser]

.......Better to go with a system designed completely for the job than trying patchwork with air bags, add a leaf or such. .......... Talk to some of the spring folks and see what they can come up with.

Good Advice Walt, and I have already contacted Deaver Springs. They have a great reputation locally and way beyond, but after talking to them on the phone they wanted to see the rig. I think ideally the would build me all new springs, but with price in mind they said they may be able to rework what I have supplementing my 64" main leaf plus two, with a couple more leafs or something.

 

[WaltK]

Good Advice Walt, and I have already contacted Deaver Springs. They have a great reputation locally and way beyond, but after talking to them on the phone they wanted to see the rig. I think ideally the would build me all new springs, but with price in mind they said they may be able to rework what I have supplementing my 64" main leaf plus two, with a couple more leafs or something.


The problem even adding custom leafs is that the design match of the series is very hard to do. Going with a full new spring designed for the job the leafs form a matched series of lengths and so on designed to work together with various loads. Maybe Deaver can manage a match like that using existing leafs, re-tempering them plus new leafs, it will be interesting to find out.

Note new springs are not necessarily all that much money. The springs themselves for mine are currently on sale. When I got them it was the $121/spring price, but even lower now. I did shop around comparing price, performance, reviews and so on. I also saved as I went with a standard off the shelf HD set rather than custom designed springs. There is a lot of variation. And there was more cost in U-bolts, shackles, the special bolts and nuts used on Rangers and so on. In the overall picture of getting the FWC, the spring/suspension part was pretty minor. But I consider it very important for ride and safety.

In my case my old springs were way off their original curve, the bushings were very bad and so on. Not worth trying to rework. Especially with also changing to a higher load rating.

 

[HiCap]

Like you my rigs weights way more on the drivers side, I have all you have plus a hot water heater. My own rather large carcass just adds to that issue. I measured the height of the top of my fender opening to the ground, installed camper and airbags and measured again. I aired it up till I was back to stock, about 80# on the left and 60# on the right. The ride was OK but bouncy, replaced the worn shocks with upgraded Bilstien 5100s all around and it rode fine. I was quite happy until the first serious off road trip broke a bolt. As suggested I could replace the bolts with grade 8 and that's a consideration. The Daystar airbag cradles suggested seem like a viable option too, since just replacing the bolt does not solve the suspension drop issue and I can tell the bag itself will probably end up failing.

I'm not far from Deaver Springs so I may go see them early this week, I called already and they suggested I let them evaluate my rig and problem. I have plans to do the mojave road in two weeks, it's not rough off road at all, but it's a lot of miles. I think I really have to sort this out and fix it by then.


Just loading my gear, putting as much weight on passenger side in camper as possible to help balance load. Before with air bags at 40 psi plus back of camper had no give to it when I pushed down on it. Now with lift blocks installed and 15 psi I can feel the springs give when I push down on it. Overload leaf springs not engaged, trying to adjust air bags to assist rear leaf springs, not take all the load for them. Next week I am going out to Mojave Trail for Fort Piute Hike. This trip should give me a chance to see how my new suspension setup works.

 

[ntsqd]

That spur road off the MR up the Fort should give it a good work-out!

 

[Fish Chaser]

Just loading my gear, putting as much weight on passenger side in camper as possible to help balance load. Before with air bags at 40 psi plus back of camper had no give to it when I pushed down on it. Now with lift blocks installed and 15 psi I can feel the springs give when I push down on it. Overload leaf springs not engaged, trying to adjust air bags to assist rear leaf springs, not take all the load for them. Next week I am going out to Mojave Trail for Fort Piute Hike. This trip should give me a chance to see how my new suspension setup works.


If your airbags are Firestone Ride-Rite or similar, be aware that any serious off roading may break the bolts or otherwise rip them loose. The problem is that they are mounted top and bottom and with serious articulation they get stretched, they are made for a compression load, not to be stretched. They were fine as long as I stayed on the road, but not suited to any significant off road use in my opinion. Mine are now removed and in a box.
I'm really pretty bummed because it was forum research and the fact that four wheel camper recommends the airbags that swung my decision to buy them in the first place. I'm going on the Mojave Trail myself in two weeks, I scrapped the airbags before they messed up a second trip. Deaver Springs reworked my stock springs today, re-arching them and adding two leaves. I'm back to pre camper height and the ride is far better than I had with the bags at any air pressure,

 

[HiCap]

If your airbags are Firestone Ride-Rite or similar, be aware that any serious off roading may break the bolts or otherwise rip them loose. The problem is that they are mounted top and bottom and with serious articulation they get stretched, they are made for a compression load, not to be stretched. They were fine as long as I stayed on the road, but not suited to any significant off road use in my opinion. Mine are now removed and in a box.
I'm really pretty bummed because it was forum research and the fact that four wheel camper recommends the airbags that swung my decision to buy them in the first place. I'm going on the Mojave Trail myself in two weeks, I scrapped the airbags before they messed up a second trip. Deaver Springs reworked my stock springs today, re-arching them and adding two leaves. I'm back to pre camper height and the ride is far better than I had with the bags at any air pressure,


I drive off road very slow, looked at video on Deaver Springs site, would never drive like they do with or without the camper. Set air to 26 psi driver side and 18 PSI passenger side. Will try this setup out, if I have any air bag failures will remove air bags and go to Deaver Springs or someone like them. I remember that Stan from four wheel camper said he prefers heavy duty springs to air bags.