Airbags vs new leaf springs?

[j_f]

All, I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death, but I've done my research and understand the benefits/drawbacks of both. My question is mostly about the responses I've been getting.

I've talked to a local spring shop about my rear suspension and they're pushing me to adding a leaf in my existing spring pack, which they'll rework to accommodate the load. That's no surprise given that they are *a spring shop*, but they also sell overloads/airbags.

My mechanic, who specializes in 4x4s, said the same thing and seems anti- airbag.

Why? Airbags seem ubiquitous in the truck camper world. Is it a case of it not being the *best* solution, although a perfectly acceptable one for most users?

 

[rubberlegs]

One reason might be that airbags and Sumosprings contact the overload feature on your rear suspension. So they are kind of a bandaid. I must admit I've only added Sumosprings to our truck, and we are definitely overloaded...

 

[BBZ]

Will you have your camper on full time or part time?

If the answer is part time, air bags can be deflated and you get your stock ride... new springs and no camper = harsh ride..

nothing complicated about it in my opinion..

 

[bajaphile]

Airbags used to not be as dependable as they are now. If you have the camper on most the time, it will be best to add some extra spring for overall dependability, robustness and better ride quality. Airbags are good to add afterwards for fine tuning the ride dependent on load and terrain. My vote is both, but start with the leaf.

 

[ckent323]

I recommend starting with quality springs made for your truck and how you use it (Deaver, Alcan, equivalent).

A consideration is if you want to increase the axle travel range by raising the truck or if you want to soften or stiffen the springs for a better 'ride'. Changing the spring stiffness and/or the height can affect the steering as well as the roll of the loaded vehicle around corners. That may lead to the need for anti-sway bar(s) and other unexpexcted mods. Best to talk this over with whomever you select to do the spring or air bag mods.

Of course if you raise the truck (or lower it) you would need different shocks so it is a good time to think about upgrading to shocks suited for the kind of terrain you drive on.

Another consideration is the consequence of an airbag failure. They can and do fail both from air leaks as well as from coming out of position (out of their cradle) and it is worth thinking about if your truck will still be able move, even if slowly, if an airbag fails on some dirt road or two track somewhere a long way from pavement.

Many people who are concerned about the consequences of an airbag failure have springs and use the air bags to tune the ride stiffness and ride height rather than relying solely on the airbags. To be sure this is the most expensive solution.


I replaced the front and rear leaf springs on my truck and lifted it 2" because the distance from the axle to the front snubber stop was only about 3/4". Now it is closer to 3" and we do not bottom out on rough dirt roads anywhere near as often as we used to. I also had the springs softened up a little and that led to some roll and sway issues when cornering. I installed an anti-sway bar in back and that cured most of the roll and sway problems. Now we have a softer ride with much better spring travel.

I may add air bags in the rear for fine tuning the ride with camper on or off and for use leveling the truck and camper since I am about to install an on-board air compressor and an ARB air locking rear differential. I will plumb the air bags separately so they can be filled differently to achieve level on uneven ground or with an uneven load.

I hope this is helpful

Craig

 

[j_f]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

 

[dennis 221]

Putting alcan asap on my tundra 6-8 week to make going 1400lbs ones

 

[CPT Davenport]

I run my stock spring pack but added the following:
SuperSprings (helper spring) Firestone bags, Daystar cradles, Bilstein shocks . All easy for DIY installation and didn't break the bank. SuperSprings handle the load no problem and the bags level it out. Also added Helwig swaybar. Solid set up even when towing my 18' Klamath with 60hp + kicker. No roll, no sway and a very comfortable ride.

 

[JHanson]

As has been mentioned, if you plan to remove the camper between trips, air bags are the only way to retain control and a decent ride both loaded and unloaded. If you plan to leave the camper on permanently, a properly specced spring pack is the way to go. I'm not fond of simple add-a-leaf kits as they can create stress risers in an otherwise well-distributed spring set. I also do not like Sumo springs and other glorified bump stops. It's worth the investment in comfort and safety to install a suitable kit from Deaver or another specialist. You'll also want shocks suitable for the extra weight.

 

[ckent323]

I have to disagree that air bags are the only way to retain control and a decent ride both loaded and unloaded.

I have a 1993 Dodge W250 Clubcab 8ft cargo bed with Cummins diesel. My camper typically goes on and off multiple times a year.

The new front and rear Deaver Springs were sized after weighing the truck with camper on with full fuel and water tanks plus all our gear as well as two adults. I also upgraded to 5100 series Bilstein shocks.

Truck rides much better, with camper either on or off, on the new Deaver springs and and shocks than it did with the old stock springs and shocks I did add an anti-sway bar to the rear because the softer springs which are raised 2" over stock allowed some sway with the camper on. It is fine now. No air bags.

Sometimes I carry cargo with the camper off that creates a heavier load on one side than the other. Air bags would help with that. Also air bags would be a nice to have when leveling the truck and camper on uneven ground although they will have limits but maybe allow doing away with a couple of the 2 x 8s that we carry for leveling.

 

[JHanson]

Let me qualify my comment. With a truck such as your 3/4-ton, and a FWC, the difference in weight between camper-on and camper-off is not nearly as drastic as the same situation with, say, a Tacoma. I haven't seen a spring combination in a light truck that will work adequately with and without a camper in place.

 

[TacomaAustin]

JHansen brings up an important consideration regarding loading a heavy camper onto a light truck.

I can attest that installing a beefy rear spring pack onto a Tacoma sufficient to handle a 1000 lb camper will result in a truck which will ride over bumps like a buckboard wagon when the slide-in camper is removed.

My preferred choice on such a light truck is to install an add-a-leaf, plus air bags.

 

[ckent323]

JHanson,

Excellent point. And your comment also brings up an important consideration. It is important to consider total weight not just the camper weight.

Added weight with camper, additions to the basic camper and all gear plus full tanks and all passengers is likely to be 1800 pounds or more for even smaller campers. It is easy to exceed the payload capacity of a 3/4 or 1/2 ton truck when adding a camper and all gear, particularly those with heavy diesel engines.

My truck weighs about 6600 pounds with full fuel tank and 2 adults. The Keystone camper advertised weight is 1,000 pounds, but with camper (including with solar panel and two 6v AGM batteries, full fuel and water tanks, two adults and all gear our truck weighs about 9,000 pounds.

I had it weighed both empty and loaded at front axle, rear axle and total weight before I ordered the new springs. I gave that info to Deaver with my order.

I hope this information is helpful.


Craig

 

[JHanson]

Chet, with all due respect, your repeated insistence in all these types of threads to "buy the right truck" is wonderful on a theoretical basis, but questions such as these are asked by people who already own a truck and probably don't have the wherewithal to just run out and write a check for an F350 or 3500. That's why the rest of us try to help them within their existing framework. Also, not everyone wants to drive a massive 3/4 or 1 ton pickup, whether or not they can afford it. I, for one, will continue to answer their questions rather than lecturing them on how they bought the wrong truck.

 

[TacomaAustin]

By glossing over the errors of others and not informing them you are complicit in the continuation of the problem. Would you consider contacting several OEM lead suspension or handling engineers and writing an article to help remedy this deadly misinformation?

First, no one on this web site has advocated exceeding a truck's payload rating. I took JHansen's remark to say not everyone will rush out to buy a 3/4 ton truck.

Righteous indignation aside - I doubt that any safety rant will prevent the average 1/2 ton truck owner from utilizing their rig near or at its payload rating, if they choose to.

Mods such as beefing up the rear spring pack, adding air bags, upgraded shocks, E rated tires and finger crossed a heavy duty rear sway bar aren't a perfect solution - but they'll help mitigate the effects of the added load on the typical 1/2 ton.

 

[ckent323]

TacomaAustin, et al.

I take no issue with any off the commentators or their posts here but I do recall some people posting comments effectively poo pooing the risks of exceeding the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (by hundreds of pounds not just a few pounds).

People can and do decide to take risks for which they may or may not fully understand the potential consequences. As long as that does not present a risk to others then I have no issue. If it clearly presents a risk to others then I do have an issue with their decision.

However, I suspect that there is some margin of safety around the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and I suspect that exceeding the Gross Vehicle Weight by a small percentage may not be very risky from an endangering other people perspective but it will increase wear and tear on the vehicle.

That written there is a point where it does make the vehicle dangerous and just leaving it up to each individual to sort that out is obviously problematic, which I am sure is why there are published and legally enforceable weight limits.

In general, the vehicle manufacturers, the cognizant law enforcement agencies and the insurance companies all say a vehicle should never exceed GVWR, loaded or unloaded. Exceeding GVWR may not only be dangerous, it can dramatically shorten the life of the vehicle. It is also a vehicle code violation which can result in a citation and fines as well as invalidation of the insurance in the case of an accident.


My recommendation is for each of us to think carefully about the consequences of our decision, not just about ourselves but also about the people around us, passengers, other drivers as well as pedestrians, before deciding to carry a load that exceeds the vehicle GVWR.

P.S. - I am not aware of any legal mechanism to legally increase the GVWR of a vehicle. If there is I welcome a link to the information on how to do it.


I wish all safe and enjoyable travels and camping.|


Craig

 

[JHanson]

I don't recommended or condone even fractionally exceeding GVWR in any vehicle. With that said, you can bet each manufacturer's GVWR has been calculated with information consumers have no access to—torsional chassis rigidity, a hundred others—and is well within a margin of error. Therefore I have no problem offering advice to someone who already owns a truck and camper and wishes to optimize handling, ride, and safety with that combination while staying within manufacturer's recommended limits.

And no, by doing so I do not consider myself an angel of death.

 

[CPT Davenport]

The information and advice from JHanson and other members is appreciated and encouraged. It has made it possible for me to use my existing and payed for 1500 Chevy and FWC combination with comfort and safety. Without the recommended upgrades suggested from this site, my truck would be unsafe with a camper on it. I consider the aftermarket parts I have added to accommodate the load are a mandatory safety upgrade. She stops quickly and without worry, accelerates well and rides like a dream. I’m right at GVWR.

 

[TacomaAustin]

With regards to exceeding the GVWR - in addition to being unsafe - should an incident occur in this litigious society, legal troubles will ensue and if there is evidence that the GVWR was exceeded, I believe that your insurance company will be off the hook for any damages.

 

[j_f]

Let me get the is straight, Ramblin: YOUR 49% payload use is an example of "the proper truck for carrying the required load," but MY 49% (700lb Fleet shell in full size truck w/1475lb payload) is... how did you put it?

"The wrong choice and they are significantly increasing the risk to themselves and others."

Be pedantic if you're so inclined, but you undermine your argument when you 1) ignore the facts and 2) sanctimoniously answer the question you prefer to answer instead of the one asked.