Alaskan Structural Issues

[OMP]

I have recently purchased a '97 NOC Alaskan Camper and have some structural problems
and am hoping that someone has the cure(s).

First off, the jack brackets have failed and bent to the point that the jacks will not lift properly.
I'm planning to remove them and redesign and fabricate new. Any good designs?

Secondly, the top portion has sagged onto the jack brackets damaging the bottom edge. This damage is
insignificant, however what has happened is that the top has forced the water overflow fitting between
the outer shell and the gas cabinet door frame thereby breaking the frame. Shimming the upper box 3/4"
now provides enough clearance so the frame can be rebuilt.

Thirdly, the lower box seems to be spreading, since the lower door has a 3/4" gap between the top of the
lower box and the door. How to repair?

And last, but not least, when offroad or going over speed bumps, the top box rocks and rolls. Is there
someway to stabilize or latch the top box to the lower?

 

[Buckwheat]

Thirdly, the lower box seems to be spreading, since the lower door has a 3/4" gap between the top of the
lower box and the door. How to repair?



I'm interested in hearing a answer on this as mine seems to have a similar problem with the gap at the top being 1/2" out farther.

Oh welcome to the boards

 

[MikeDahlager]

I have recently purchased a '97 NOC Alaskan Camper and have some structural problems
and am hoping that someone has the cure(s).

First off, the jack brackets have failed and bent to the point that the jacks will not lift properly.
I'm planning to remove them and redesign and fabricate new. Any good designs?

Secondly, the top portion has sagged onto the jack brackets damaging the bottom edge. This damage is
insignificant, however what has happened is that the top has forced the water overflow fitting between
the outer shell and the gas cabinet door frame thereby breaking the frame. Shimming the upper box 3/4"
now provides enough clearance so the frame can be rebuilt.

Thirdly, the lower box seems to be spreading, since the lower door has a 3/4" gap between the top of the
lower box and the door. How to repair?

And last, but not least, when offroad or going over speed bumps, the top box rocks and rolls. Is there
someway to stabilize or latch the top box to the lower?


Can you post some pictures of what is happening with your camper?
Mike

 

[wcj]

Can you post some pictures of what is happening with your camper?
Mike

 

[wcj]

I am on my third Alaskan, including a total rebuild on a late 60's NCO that my son now has in Alaska. Every one I have seen, including the 2004 I use now has the spreading lower door frame problem. It seems inherent in the basic design of the lower portion where the bottom half of the door removes the structural support and the spread starts. The best solution I have found is an adjustable draw hasp, one part mounts on the left side of the door frame, the hook mounts on the adjacent left edge of the door. The hasp connects to the hook and then when locked pulls the top of the door and the top of the door frame together. At that point things ride better, door locks work again and the seals around the door work. It doesn't cure the structural problem, but it sure helps and probably keeps it from getting worse.

Good Luck

 

[Rusty]

Another request for pictures...

the earlier models had steel angle iron across the bottom of the bottom door half. Even those over the years of flexing have cracked at the edges.

I'd particularly be interested in the jacks which were bent and the mounting platform for them. I've had Reico-Titan jacks and jack brackets on the camper for over 25 years and no bending at all.

As far as the spreading goes....that is the reason for the shims that support the seating area to the truck bed wall. We've been having that discussion about Roberts install. Without the shims, the lower section is unsupported and would allow the spread to happen.

 

[MikeDahlager]

Another request for pictures...

the earlier models had steel angle iron across the bottom of the bottom door half. Even those over the years of flexing have cracked at the edges.

I'd particularly be interested in the jacks which were bent and the mounting platform for them. I've had Reico-Titan jacks and jack brackets on the camper for over 25 years and no bending at all.

As far as the spreading goes....that is the reason for the shims that support the seating area to the truck bed wall. We've been having that discussion about Roberts install. Without the shims, the lower section is unsupported and would allow the spread to happen.


I agree. By not supporting the the overhang with the sides of the truck, the lower section will spread at the top due to the weight of the top section.
Mike

 

[Wooddog]

Lurking for a year while rebuilding a 75 10' cabover. I solved the flex problem at the back by rebuilding the floor 3" lower than original with an oak beam across the back between the new floor and the bottom of the door. With 2 layers of 3/4 rigid insulation down the threshold is only 1 1/2" higher than the floor. Not much flex there now. The original intent was to raise the camper to clear the roof of my '03 F-250. I'm 6'3" so having an extra inch and a half of headroom doesn't hurt (pun intended).

Cat's out of the bag now; you're gonna demand pictures. I have probably 300 but a very weak cellular internet connection so I'm not sure how that's gonna go...

Bruce

 

[Rusty]

Wooddog...this I would like to see.....being 6'3" and driving an 03 F-250....you might understand

 

[Wooddog]

I've just uploaded some pictures to my gallery; I'll do a proper post here soon...

 

[Rusty]

Well....that's a proper rebuild for sure.....

nice pile

so.....where's the propane tank?

Nice job on the angle iron too....

I see a contractors shop

 

[Wooddog]

Yeah, I have a problem with leaving well enough alone. I figured if that space was under roof it couldn't be that hard to enclose it. Had to cut down the sidewall to fit the narrow tailgate opening anyway. So I laid out the floor as large as possible. Probably won't fit other trucks now...

I wanted to remove the tailgate to save weight but thought the force of the hydraulic cylinders needed the be transferred forward so the steel angle is epoxied and bolted to the plywood. The tub at the back is simply 3" taller than original.

In the front the sidewalls were worth saving. The bottom edges were a little soft but epoxy is my friend. There is a 3" high piece of 1/2" ply under the original sidewall and a 5" (i think) piece laminated to it on the inside. Makes a nice corner for a glue joint; and short screws clamped old to new from the outside.

I fit each piece of oak, notching them over the beams, then glued them together. The bottom edges of the back wall were pretty rough; there's alot of thickened epoxy at the junction to the flat piece of oak (the threshold). I don't think the forces acting on that joint will tear it apart.

The oak goes across the driver side box only because one of the pieces was long enough. The beam was designed only to tie the door opening together and support the weight of the roof. I inset 3/4" ply into those openings so the boxes don't flex.

For good measure I fiberglassed the corners with a single layer of cloth. Then the outside of the entire tub got 2-part garage floor paint. (West System epoxy is too expensive for this...) One gallon did two coats. Then the sheet aluminum and corner angle.

I inset the new boxes from the face of the rear wall so I wouldn't have to replace the original sheet metal, and to pay homage to the original design. It also gives the taillights a recess. Not sure I would do that again... Turns out the new passenger corner is 1" narrower than the porta-potty I want. Oh well.

The propane was going in the driver side box but there's not enough room for a door and the roof pump blocks the inside access. A ten pounder will fit (I'd have to fit a sealed panel and vent the box outside) or maybe a forklift tank (they're beefy) under the truck opposite the fuel tank.

I poached shop space last year from work; there's a CNC mostly sitting idle in there. No, I can't run it; it wouldn't be idle if I could... A forklift does come in handy, though.

If you want I'll show you what I did about the 10' long 1x2 rafter sag.

 

[MikeDahlager]

If you want I'll show you what I did about the 10' long 1x2 rafter sag.
[/quote]

Yes, yes! We all want to see what you have done. Great pix.
As to the propane storage issue, I carry it inside the camper and put it on the ground when I set up for the night. Works fine.

 

[Rusty]

Keep em coming.....great photos and ideas

I'm doing my usual pre-engineering evaluation of under/bed propane and quick couplers right now....

there are propane tanks designed for underbed but I'm a belt and suspenders guy....I'll build a box and plate it from impact.

"probably wont fit other trucks now"....why worry ....looks like it fits nicely right where it goes

 

[caseboy]

mike,
i'd like to learn about rafter sag. my new (old 1975 10'co)has a little sag at the back roof vent . just enough to let a puddle form on roof. i'm going to replace vent and panel and would like to strengthen that part of the roof. the wood and metal all looks good.

thanks,wes

 

[Wooddog]

Thought about an exoskeleton (a roof rack) to tie the middle of the roof to but I am loath to put more holes in the roof. Any roof for that matter. Comparing our structure to a house roof, we don't have a ridge beam, rafters, or collar ties. We have ceiling joists. And not very strong ones. We need to push the roof up in the center section and then transfer the downward force out to the side walls or to the front bulkhead and rear wall (the roof rack solution). To keep the fix indoors means faking rafters and collar ties.

I initially thought a custom aluminum truss would hold the shape and transfer the load but the same gentleman who got me hooked on epoxy suggested a plywood I-beam would be just as light and strong and much cheaper. Some 1/8" bending ply, a piece of 3/4" maple ply for appearance and quality, 2 cardboard templates, clamps blocks wedges sticky stuff...

There are 3 layers of the bending ply top and bottom. Used jack posts to press it into place. That was late April; I haven't heard any screws pop yet. When the roof is down it's about an inch above the lower tub.

A note on the original roof framing: there is no arch framed into the center of the roof as there is at front and back. At the top of the cabinets are joists running 4' apart. The blocking in the center where the paneling joins is flat across that 4'. I put a 1/4" bow in that section of the brace in case it flexed some. The brackets are simple angle brackets cut off on one side and bent on the other. Through bolts hold them to the brace and #12 screws go in about an inch to every available joist from the cabinets outward. I haven't built new cabs to hide those ugly brackets yet; I'm currently stuck trying to get a good finish on my kitchen parts. Don't ask.

Now the exiting part: The brace is just over 3" tall at the center and with the extra 1 1/2" of headroom previously mentioned I can walk under it!

 

[Rusty]

I'm lovin this...a true gypsy fix.....nice lines, well built

you either build boats or cabinets...one or the other or both.....

we have the same variety of tools

again....nice work

 

[Wooddog]

Thanks for the compliments. Rusty, you called it. Trim carpentry and cabinets. No boats, can't do compound curves.

Gonna do a build thread but thought these excerpts might help. Been at this for 12 of the last 13 months at around 20 hours a week. Hmmmm, that's like 1000 hours. Of course, alot of that is sittin' and thinkin'. Trying to do this for money would ruin it.

 

[Rusty]

Trying to do this for money would ruin it.


you know how it goes....jigs and fixtures

You've got the eye...and the thought only has to go in once...or twice

I spent quite a lot of time figuring out the drawer add on to mine...and the stairs

 

[IRIL]

I agree. By not supporting the the overhang with the sides of the truck, the lower section will spread at the top due to the weight of the top section.
Mike

I agree proper support is what is needed

I went to AK Camper factory in Chehalis, WA last summer with the door spreading problem in the lower unit. They solved the problem with shims between my tailgate area[/s] the back of truck bed just forward of tailgate and the camper floor bottom. From my observations and discussion with Rick at AK Camper there is more weight on the side edges (passenger side/driver side) of the floor bottom than in the middle of the floor bottom area. The weight can cause whatever is directly under the camper (wood blocks, mats, bed liner) to settle under the side wall edges of the camper. This gives a floor profile when looking at the back of the camper of a "slight frown" causing the side walls of the lower section to tip out. Putting shims under the floor where the side walls are causes the bottom floor board end profile to move back toward the direction of a "smile," and this pulls the side walls in because the angle of the floor tips more inward where the side walls attach. It took Rick about 10 minutes time with making shim adjustments to get the door spacing to be all even around the lower section of the camper. It was amazingly quick and simple. It still looks good around the door.

I believe my camper was particularly susceptible to the support settling under the side walls because I put 3/4" rubber cattle mat on the entire truck bed when it was new, and that is on top of a plastic bed liner.