Another Turnbuckle Fiasco Averted ....FWC facebook page

[Wallowa]

While I appreciate the discussion I believe with a modicum of common sense these issues of turnbuckle failures can be non-issues.

First the number of turnbuckle "failures" is unknown and for all the thousands of FWCs bumping down dirt roads damn few have been reported on this forum...in short I feel the "sky is not falling"...the internet most often inflates beyond reality.

Violent flexing of the load such as the incident mentioned above that split the siding and twisted the frame of the FWC nothwithstanding; tighten correctly following FWC guidelines and add the jam nuts to prevent loosening...not rocket science....check regularly and stop worrying...

Speculation is valuable to a point but empirical numbers are what tell the tale....with due diligence the FWCs will not come loose.

But hey, I could be wrong!

Phil

 

[longhorn1]

Can some one person post a picture showing the jam nut. I assume it is placed below the main body.

 

[Josh41]

I use Locktite 222 (purple). It is for small fasteners and is relatively easy to still turn.
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/uk/en/product/threadlockers/loctite_222.html

 

[kmcintyre]

I use those turnbuckles (like others) with closed ends that screw into the end. Never can have this problem.

 

[JHanson]

Is this galvanized forged steel 5/6" turnbuckle that we are looking for?
https://www.mcmaster.com/steel-turnbuckles

J, was wondering, as I read your incident report, I went to the link for the turnbuckle and it listed it as having a clevis pin on one end and a closed loop at the other. How do you attach this to the eye bolts?

I used a rated steel threaded link, which in our camper made it easier to attach one end of the turnbuckle while working in the confines of the front two attachment points.

 

[buckland]

Thanks J. I have to use same on mine (3" lift due to side rail height). Stronger turnbuckles are a small investment for "peace of mind" ... when traveling one juggles a bunch of things to keep track of and one less thing to be distracted by is a good thing. Like having a tire patch kit and a compressor, extraction mats...etc.

 

[Josh41]

...and, while taking my camper off today I just found my second broken eyebolt. Uhg, getting frustrated with this thing. All I can think is that the angle of pull is too great. I have read that eyebolts are meant to only be pulled vertical or inline with the threaded post, mine are at quite and angle. I just watched a FWC video that says you must have an angle in two directions, in the case of the front eyebolts, they say it should pull back to the camper and from the side.
Maybe this system has a flaw in it???
Back to the drawing board for me.

 

[DavidGraves]

Hi Longhorn

Look at the image of my turnbuckles January 21 in this thread....see the lock not ?

David Graves

 

[iowahiker]

Turnbuckle and tie-down failures are an ongoing issue for a limited number of campers since before we purchased our camper in 2012 with multiple forum threads and almost as many solutions as camper owners. Turnbuckle failures resulting in the over-the-cab impacting the cab were reported back then which is as unique as the recent camper falling to the ground.

The aluminum turnbuckles were rated for 300-350 pounds each and a set of four exceed the DOT regulations for the various FWC camper weights the last time I checked.

Turnbuckle loosening can be caused by either camper movement (typically rotational) or vibration unscrewing the turnbuckle. Careful measurements should be made to detect camper movement which bed-to-camper blocking or increased camper-to-bed friction (by a bed mat) can control.

Turnbuckle and tie-down failure is less common and can have very unique causes. Driving into a dip at high speed can load and unload the truck springs creating enough vertical force to cause turnbuckle failure (i.e. a ballistic camper) and was reported years ago.

The camper wood box is very rigid and some truck makes advertise having a "flex" frame. Driving over rough terrain can flex the frame enough where the load on the turnbuckles is not the weight of the camper but instead the weight of the truck because the camper box is so rigid.

Obviously, driving so the truck suspension can absorb the terrain will greatly reduce turnbuckle and tie-down failures or switching to spring based tie-downs.

Tie-down problems are the dirty "secret" for all makes and models of truck campers. Reading several forums revels problems with every truck camper tie-down system.

I block my camper at the wheel wells tightly, go to fiendish extremes to create firm camper contact with the front of the truck bed, and have four safety chains (each rated to 800 pounds, 3/16" chain) plus the original hook-hook turnbuckles. The blocking reduces the lateral load on my turnbuckles while an event related aluminum turnbuckle failure will absorb energy and the chains will keep the camper on the truck. I also carry spare turnbuckles.

 

[BillTheHiker]

Since FWC puts great emphasis on the importance of keeping turnbuckles tight and frequent checking, I am surprised they do not include lock nuts in the installation.

 

[rubberlegs]

I just received a Torklift S9012 Hook to Hook Turnbuckle from Amazon as a spare turnbuckle. It came with two jam nuts. But the Fleet arrived with no jam nuts. I'm surprised FWC doesn't supply jam nuts, at the very least. Hmmm.

 

[wandern]

How do you like the Torklift turnbuckles?

 

[JHanson]

The aluminum turnbuckles were rated for 300-350 pounds each and a set of four exceed the DOT regulations for the various FWC camper weights the last time I checked.

But that camper weight is static. That changes massively once the vehicle (that is, the camper) is moving, braking, bouncing, etc. I've owned two FWCs and had experience with many more. It's a fantastic product but the supplied turnbuckles are inadequate, period.

 

[wildlife2019]

Assuming their is enough room to access the turnbuckles, and where jam nuts are not available, maybe safety wiring them would ease one's mind?

 

[rubberlegs]

How do you like the Torklift turnbuckles?

Someone else will have to comment. I just got one from Amazon and have never used it. It's steel per a magnet test. I learned of them on this website somewhere.

 

[klahanie]

- Just want to point out that in the pic posted earlier of the forged turnbuckle, the nuts on the jaw bolt looks to be a Nyloc type - not a bad idea IMO, considering it would be subject to vibration.

- wildlife2019, yes a safety wire should work. In fact I've read that recommended instead of a locknut in some rigging manuals because,
"Lock nuts can significantly increase the stress imposed upon the threads"

source eg: pg 36, https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/01/f6/HoistingRigging_Fundamentals.pdf

- I can see how this could happen with an AL body turnbuckle, esp with a ham fisted or overly concerned owner. Perhaps this is why FWC does not supply (?). Tho I have no idea how much they think about all this... And, again I haven't had it cause a failure (yet) with my OE hardware.

--
Posted by Josh41

...and, while taking my camper off today I just found my second broken eyebolt. Uhg, getting frustrated with this thing. All I can think is that the angle of pull is too great. I have read that eyebolts are meant to only be pulled vertical or inline with the threaded post, mine are at quite and angle. I just watched a FWC video that says you must have an angle in two directions, in the case of the front eyebolts, they say it should pull back to the camper and from the side.
Maybe this system has a flaw in it???
Back to the drawing board for me.

Frustrating indeed ! Haven't read about broken eyebolts (or eyenuts) before. You are correct that angular loads reduce the rating. See description on pg 28 in the PDF linked above.

Adopting the thrust of this thread (as I read it) you'd go stronger but I agree there may be something to questioning the geometry of your set up. Again, something close to vertical hold down seems to me the best angle. But, obviously, that won't be possible in all applications.

- iowahiker, good posts. Sounds like a smart set up that's working for you. I agree the hooks, warts and all, might be the best and easiest "weakest link" to repair or replace, if need be. I remember some posts of eyenuts having been pulled thru - not much fun on a road trip.

One thing about the "flex frame", I don't know about trucks - I might have said the opposite - but FWC has always promoted this as a positive of their design. I'm not seeing the same concept carried through to the tie down system tho, so I use a bed mat for cushion.

- Finally, further to my earlier post, looks like FWC has changed the camper attachment points under the wings, no longer eyenuts. Again, I wonder if contact stress with the hook could cause the hook to be levered open. But prob not a jaw end.


- Good discussion. May not be of value to the majority who've had no issues. But for those with concerns, it's simple food for thought.

 

[craig333]

Lets not forget from earlier discussions, there will be a point of failure if you hit a big enough bump. If its not the turnbuckle then its the bed or the camper itself. I've had the camper failure (bolt pulls out of the wood, if only photobucket hadn't stolen my pics I'd repost) but keeping in mind FWC noted those failures and in newer campers they are reinforced (not sure what year they put the plates in).

Most times it a single turnbuckle failure (leading to more failures if it isn't caught promptly) and those are certainly cheaper and easier to fix than the camper itself.

Just wanted to toss that point of view out there. Myself, I'm still not sure where I stand. Sometimes I lean one way sometimes another. I do carry extra turnbuckles.

 

[Vic Harder]

How do you like the Torklift turnbuckles?

I use these, and they are trouble free
https://www.torklift.com/rv/derringer-handle

 

[hebegebe]

Do you use these in same position as stock location?

 

[fish more]

Go with the Torklift Derringers, I threw away the turnbuckles the first month I owned my Hawk in 2009. Have never had a failure with the Derringers, or them coming loose with camper on full time on my F150 or now on my Super Duty F250. After you adjust them to each position, lock them down, install the lock pins and forget about having any problems with anything coming loose. Would never go back to turnbuckles. Like Vic states "trouble free"