Anyone thinking about a new Truck

[moveinon]

I hear discussions on here about buying new trucks and their price now and thought it may be time for a different discussion around that. I am clearly biased but I think in less than 5 years that gas and diesel trucks will be something of the past and expect resale values to drop precipitously for them in just the next few years. Electric trucks from a variety of brands are about to hit the market in the next few years. At least one off road ready truck is already for sale. Tesla expects their truck to go into production next year, Ford is now converting a plant to produce electric trucks and VW is expanding substantially their electric car manufacturing plant and is considering trucks. I can speak from some experience now that I have owned a Tesla for a year. As best I can calculate it cost $567 total to drive my car last year (and part of that was all weather floor mats), I spent more than that on gas for my truck before the end of March. The Tesla has hugely more power, better stability, more traction, many times more towing capacity and a lot more low end torque than my truck. In the two fleets that use Tesla cars they have had very little repair and maintenance (one is even only on its second set of brakes) and all these cars now exceeded 500,000 miles (except one that wrecked). A electric truck should have no maintenance for 5 years except rotating tires and changing windshield wipers. My Tesla goes between 310 and 340 miles before needing to be recharged depending on hills and weather which would not be enough for my truck and camper. But if the new electric trucks have the towing and load capacity that is projected and get comparable mileage to the current gas and diesel trucks with reasonable pricing I think our current trucks are done for and certainly anyone buying a new truck now can expect to take a substantial loss upon sale as there just is no comparison on the performance side between an ICE truck and an electric truck both on road and off. Manufacturers are not quite there yet but they certainly are racing in fast. Two, three years maybe. And who of us with a FWC wouldn’t love to have a whole engine compartment available for storage and a huge built in battery system for camper electric. What do you all think? Would you still buy an ICE truck or wait and see what happens with electric?

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

The main criterion for me would be range. When they can figure out how to (re)charge the batteries remotely I’m in. Can you get enough from solar? Cloudy days? I agree with you, I think electric is coming soon. But for our purposes I think it’s further off than we’d like.

 

[byrdlover]

I have a 2017 Taco and do not plan to buy a new truck for at least three years. For all of the reasons you describe, as well as my own environmental reasons, my next truck will be electric assuming I can acquire an electric truck with 4WD that will handle my ATC Bobcat.

 

[windy]

Y’all hurry up and buy your electric trucks. Get your names on the waiting lists so you don’t miss out. The sooner the better. Then we will have a surplus of gas/diesel and prices can drop back down below $1/gallon. More reason for me to keep my 1999 Land Cruiser!!!

 

[windy]

All kidding aside, for the near future, my guess is we will see some form of hybrid vehicles for the masses. The transportation industry has proven its value in trains and ships through the widespread use of diesel electric systems. The propulsion motors are 100% electric with power being supplied by an ICE generator. And I think we will eventually see a variation of this in the near future for cars and trucks. Not as sexy as 100% electric but much more practical until the pure electric infrastructure becomes more robust and widespread in rural / low population density areas.

 

[PaulT]

I say we push for a electric charging station at Teakettle Junction and another on the Burr trail.
Let the flames begin.
Paul

 

[Tuff Guy 62]

Current technology is just not there yet. Range geometrically decreases driving uphill, off road and when towing or hauling significant payload. Not very practical for our use hauling around a truck camper in the back country or anywhere else for that matter. TFL did an interesting experiment with their Model X.

Maybe someday the technology will be there. In the meantime I'd go with the ICE hands down.

 

[moveinon]

Tuff guy 62, Thanks for the video. I never plan to tow with my car, and now can see why. Just as a fyi I loose very little going over mountain passes as I gain on the downhill almost everything lost going up, so pretty much like driving on flat road. But I do experience significant loss of range when below 32 degrees, a little over 1/3rd of the range which would never work with the camper. And certainly agree the trucks are not there yet as said. But do think they can be soon as Tesla already has a semi with almost 500 mile range and roadster with over 650 mile range which would make a electric truck workable for many.

 

[Old Crow]

Last February I met a Quebecois couple in the state park campground next to Okefenokee National Wildlife Refuge (in Georgia). They were from Montreal and were traveling in a Tesla and towing a Safari Condo Alto F1743 trailer.

If you happen to be familiar with that area, it has a very rural feel so I asked whether they had had any problems finding charging stations. They said they had had no trouble at all and said there are a surprising number of charging stations available. They also said they reserve a 50-amp campsite so they can charge the Tesla overnight.

I was happy to take them up on their offer of a tour of their Alto. They told me they're planning to trade it in on a 21-foot Alto. At the time I thought they meant the larger one similar to theirs but now I'm wondering if they had advance notice of the new, more efficient A2124 announced this past summer.

They also told me of the TeslaXCanada couple and their travels across Canada and the US in a Tesla towing a Safari Condo R1723 camper several years ago.

Also-- two weeks ago I met another Quebecois couple while taking a walk in the campground at my local state park. They were towing a new Alto F2114 with a small SUV. When I mentioned the couple I had met in Georgie, they told me they're also planning to buy a Tesla for their travels with the Alto.
.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

As far as electric vehicles for the masses go, nobody has yet explained to me:

Where the national electric grid is going to find enough capacity to charge all of these vehicles? We have brownouts now in hot weather when everybody is running their air conditioning. New generating plants are expensive and take a while to build. Plus most use natural gas as fuel and the enviro-wackos have been keeping any new - much needed - pipelines from being built. The gas company around New York City is already refusing to hook any new construction up to the gas supply, citing insufficient capacity.

As somebody who has been driving his whole life in a northern state where the temperatures hit 20 below or lower sometimes, where does the power to HEAT these vehicles come from? If they draw power from the battery pack to run electric heaters, how badly does that cut into the range?

 

[Machinebuilder]

I think the electric vehicles are interesting.

I also think that they are not an option for traveling across this country.

I am reminded of a couple years ago seeing a couple and their Tesla at the small convenience store/motel/campground near Togwatee pass. They were forced to stop for the day because they left Casper and did not have enough range to get to Moran Jct.

If I wanted a second vehicle for commuting I would consider electric.
I think for the areas away from metropolitan areas a hybrid could make sense. I don't see the technology becoming mainstream in the short term.

For the way I like to travel, having to stop where there is a charging station is not going to work. I have spent days without going near a gas station, much less a place with a 30 or 50 amp outlet to charge from.

 

[roverjohn]

I think the original poster is off by maybe a factor of ten on his timetable and even that would take some luck.
A few things. Fuel for ICE vehicles will stay cheap as it's pretty easy to make so people will keep using ICE cars and buying them. The rest of the world can't afford electric cars or trucks so the mechanism to continue building ICE cars wont go anywhere. And, there is no evidence that there is anywhere near enough lithium available for all the grandiose plans of the electric car folks and that's a pretty important ingredient to your batteries. Copper is becoming in pretty sort supply too and the environmental damage caused by pulling that stuff out of the ground is staggering.

Most of the vehicles purchase today will still be around in 20 years unless they are wrecked so the idea that they will somehow become worthless in five seems absurd. Keep buying stock in Tesla. How could you possibly go wrong.

I've been telling everyone who has asked that we will never run out of 'gas' since the first "crisis" in 1976. I still stick by that and have been proven somewhat prophetic over the last 43 years. The electric people don't seem to understand that liquid fuel can be very environmentally friendly and renewable if we're willing to spend a bit more for it then we do now. And, because it's highly energy dense, it's more practical.

 

[JaSAn]

To answer your question:
an electric truck at current technology would not work for me as a 24/7/365 vehicle. I would need a second ICE vehicle or be resigned to not having transportation at times and not going some places I currently like to go.

"As best I can calculate it cost $567 total to drive my car last year"
That is your cost. What you are not including is what driving your car costs me ( a taxpayer ). Electric vehicles are currently heavily subsidized. That won't last.

to answer your 'in5 years':
California can't keep the power on now. Where are they going to get the addition power to replace all their gasoline powered transportation and how are they going to distribute it. The infrastructure construction alone is going to take a long time, not counting the permitting fights and tie-ups in the courts.

Most new residential electric is 200W. At 200W it would take about 12 hours to charge a Tesla for a 40 miles round trip (1.5 miles per KW = 2700 W for 40 miles). How long will it take to rewire neighborhoods to add capacity, at what cost and who pays?

Multiply the California problems by 50.

 

[Machinebuilder]

Another point against electric, it takes me at most 15min to pump 30gal of gas, this gives me about 400 mi range.

How long does it take to recharge battery’s for a 400mi range?

 

[Machinebuilder]

To answer your question:

an electric truck at current technology would not work for me as a 24/7/365 vehicle. I would need a second ICE vehicle or be resigned to not having transportation at times and not going some places I currently like to go.

"As best I can calculate it cost $567 total to drive my car last year"
That is your cost. What you are not including is what driving your car costs me ( a taxpayer ). Electric vehicles are currently heavily subsidized. That won't last.

to answer your 'in5 years':
California can't keep the power on now. Where are they going to get the addition power to replace all their gasoline powered transportation and how are they going to distribute it. The infrastructure construction alone is going to take a long time, not counting the permitting fights and tie-ups in the courts.

Most new residential electric is 200W. At 200W it would take about 12 hours to charge a Tesla for a 40 miles round trip (1.5 miles per KW = 2700 W for 40 miles). How long will it take to rewire neighborhoods to add capacity, at what cost and who pays?

Multiply the California problems by 50.

You’re way off on residential power, 220v x 200a = 44000w

A 200a service is pretty smalll anymore, I don’t do residential electric but I think 300a is pretty standard now.

 

[Foy]

Thinking about a new truck? Sure, pretty much every day.

Actually likely to buy one in the forseeable future? Not likely, and not likely over the remainder of my life. At 64, I'm not the least bit likely to drop many tens of thousands of dollars into a new vehicle of any type.

Sure seems that battery technology/recharging infrastructure has a loooooooooooong way to go in terms of large vehicle range and recharge time. My sole brush with what was then cutting edge all electric tech was when one of the earlier Teslas (previous to the lower priced models--when they cost around $175,000 in around 2014-2015) was brought to our vacation home in the Blue Ridge some 200 miles from our Raleigh home. The owner asked if he could plug it in to recharge while there and I told him sure, no problem. The car had a 252 mile optimal range but with the elevation gain in the last 40 miles + running the A/C he couldn't chance running the entire distance so he stopped in Burlington, NC for a Tesla-sponsored recharge which took around minutes and he could.t stay there long enough for a full charge. He made the remaining 150 miles without incident. But once at our place, charging via a 15 amp dedicated circuit was a slooooooooooow process so long story short he had to leave it in the driveway close to the outlet from Friday night until Sunday afternoon in order to get back to a Tesla facility in or close to Raleigh on Sunday afternoon. He said his average charge time on household current (generally a 15 amp circuit) restored his range at between 3 and 4 miles per hour. I realize a lot has happened since then but it seems likely that a lot still needs to happen. And the power supply via the grid has to be far more robust and reliable than it is at present, in all states, especially populous states like California and New York. Seems that the pushback against electric generation from fossil fuels including natural gas is in direct opposition to efforts to transition to all electric vehicles whose reliance on the grid represents an order(s?) of magnitude increase in demand. I don't have a clue what the answer is, but it sure seems that natural gas and nukes for generation has to be a big part of it.

Foy

 

[JaSAn]

You’re way off on residential power, 220v x 200a = 44000w

A 200a service is pretty smalll anymore, I don’t do residential electric but I think 300a is pretty standard now.

OOPS! My bad. Thinking is hard when ones head is full of cold medicine.

Most of the houses in my neighborhood (150 houses, 25 Y.O.) are 100A, with underground power delivery. Would be quite expensive to upgrade everyone to 200A+.

 

[Machinebuilder]

OOPS! My bad. Thinking is hard when ones head is full of cold medicine.

Most of the houses in my neighborhood (150 houses, 25 Y.O.) are 100A, with underground power delivery. Would be quite expensive to upgrade everyone to 200A+.

If I think about it a house I had in NY only had a 100A service, it was built around 1880, I’m not sure when electric was added but it was knob and tube wiring in a lot of the house.

Here in TN I’d never run my heat pump on that small a service.

 

[smlobx]

Just an FYI from a recently retired home builder...a “standard” home is usually supplied with a 200 amp service. This usually covers a home up to about 2500 SF.
Most of the homes we built had 400 amp service but were in the 5000 to 7500 SF range.

 

[knoxswift]

I have been looking for a truck for at least 1.5 years now.
I'm hoping hybrids catch on like the RAM truck system. I like the attempt by Ram but wish it wasn't just stop/start but more like a supercharger...
Funny even though I like the etorque RAM I would still want the 33 gallon tank option.
Overlanding is all about range