Astro Thread

highz

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MarkBC's thread on Jupiter got me to thinking that it might be nice to have a thread on celestial phenomena for Wanderers to check before they head out to their next backcountry camp.

I'll start things off with a faint comet that should be naked-eye from a dark site with no moon in early October, or at least easily visible in binoculars.

Comet Hartley 2
 
so what amazing things might we see during the pork rally ?


Well, after eating a lot of Good Stuff and drinking all those fine brews, some of you might be flat on your backs, looking up
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If you can still hold binoculars steady, you could still look for comet Hartley 2. It will be in the constellation Perseus. A detailed chart is here:

http://media.skyandt...Hartley2-bw.jpg

Jupiter will still be bright. Uranus is just 2 degrees to the north of Jupiter. It will look like a vaguely greenish star in binoculars.

On October 22 the Orionid meteor shower peaks. At peak, there are typically 25 meteors per hour. On the 16th, you may only see a few an hour, on top of the usual "sporadic" meteors, so probably not a "Gee Whiz" event. Viewing is best after midnight, when your spot on earth has turned into the stream of meteoroids, and the moon has set. The big question is, who will still be conscious then?

That's all I have. Maybe other Wanderers will be able to add more. You would think the Pork Rally would be accompanied by great portents in the sky. Let me know if you see any.
 
A small telescope should be part of the camping equipment. We carry an old Celestron 65 spotting scope. According to a quick search of the Web, newer versions of the same telescope can be had for about 70 bucks. This telescope uses a Cassegrain mirror in the front of the scope which makes it very small, easy to use, and powerful. Unfortunately, our scope does not adapt to a camera well, which is a disadvantage. However, with this little telescope, we have seen the rings of Saturn when camping at a remote place in Arizona. That is a pretty good test.

In addition, a spotting scope like this, with an erect image, has great value for looking at objects on the surface during the day, including but not limited to wildlife. A telescope can add greatly to the enjoyment of the outdoors and oft times, a little scope can see more than a big one.

The astronomer who posted earlier is being a little disingenuous when he says he only brings his binoculars. At most star parties a good pair of binoculars is mounted on a tripod for viewing, in addition to the telescopes, because they work better than telescopes for some things. Thus, a pair of binoculars is a good place to start. Most already have them. So, start with your binoculars and learn to use them. Mount them on a tripod. Most folks already have these two items and only need to start using them. John D
 
Disingenuous? Oh, well, maybe.

JohnD is right about binoculars, though. Here are a few more practical notes about them.

You all know that binoculars are designated by magnification x objective aperture (in mm) - e.g. "7x35". If you divide the aperture by the magnification, you get the exit pupil in mm. For astro binoculars you usually want to match the exit pupil to the diameter of your dark-adapted (dilated) pupil. For young people, that is typically 7 mm. It usually gets smaller as your eyes age. Also, the larger the objective lenses, the more light is gathered, so astronomy binoculars tend to be large.

So, 7x35 binocs have an exit pupil of 5 mm. A pair of 7x50 binocs gives you an exit pupil of 7 (close enough). The 7X50 would allow you to get a little more light into your eye and see fainter objects with their larger objective aperture, and it would all go into your dark-adapted pupil. 7x35 binoculars are okay for astronomy use, 7X50's are better. Even so, if you already have 7x35's, there is a lot to see at night with them, so no need to go spend big bucks on astronomy binoculars unless you get hooked on the hobby.

Also, the larger and heavier astronomy binoculars pretty much require a tripod or mount, since they are very hard to hold steady for any length of time.
 
highz,

Thanks for the additional information on binoculars, details I had long forgotten. I appreciate the very practical refresher. Hopefully, this will inspire the folks to dig their binoculars out and start using them. There is so much to see. I have a pair of Nikon 7x50s that I don't take in the camper because they are rather heavy. Next trip out west, they are going with us, thanks to your information.

De Chéseaux's List of 21 "Nebulae" is an interesting bit of history and it leads right into this subject. I imagine he would have loved to have had a pair of fine binoculars. What did those old boys use for their observations? Was it mainly the eye because it was darker back in the 1700s? Have you ever seen instruments that might have been used by De Cheseaux and his colleagues?

If you explain to the folks a little about nebulae, they might become fired up. Hope so. I was grown before I realized there were things to see other than the moon and stars, only because a friend was having occasional star parties. And here is a group spending a good bit of time in some of the best places to see these things.

John D
 
De Chéseaux's List of 21 "Nebulae" is an interesting bit of history and it leads right into this subject. I imagine he would have loved to have had a pair of fine binoculars. What did those old boys use for their observations? Was it mainly the eye because it was darker back in the 1700s? Have you ever seen instruments that might have been used by De Cheseaux and his colleagues?

If you explain to the folks a little about nebulae, they might become fired up. Hope so. I was grown before I realized there were things to see other than the moon and stars, only because a friend was having occasional star parties. And here is a group spending a good bit of time in some of the best places to see these things.

John D



You may be more of an astronomy historian than I. I did find out that De Chéseaux used both a refracting and reflecting telescope (Gregorian design) in his work. Isaac Newton is credited with first using a mirror for a telescope instead of lenses, and De Chéseaux was observing about thirty years after that. The mirror of the reflector was probably made of speculum (copper and tin alloy that takes a good polish). Yeah, our binoculars have better optics than either of his telescopes.

Ok John D, because you asked, the one-minute nebula class is called to order.
smile.gif
It used to be that anything that looked fuzzy was called a nebula (Latin for "cloud"). As optics got better, it turned out that some nebulae were actually clusters of stars inside or surrounding our Milky Way Galaxy, some really were clouds of gas and dust in the Milky Way, some were shells of gas shed from dying stars, and some turned out to be other galaxies outside our Milky Way. It wasn't until the 1920s that those galaxies were shown to be outside the Milky Way Galaxy!!! Google "Shapley-Curtis Debate" for an interesting read.

Large emission nebulae in the spiral arms of the Milky Way occur in places where there is enough gas to contract by gravity to form stars (the density is rarer than any vacuum on earth, but is "thick" for space). They are stellar nurseries. The more massive baby stars are very hot and bright and ionize the nearby gas, which then glows as the freed electrons find new atoms to recombine with. Eventually, the pressure from the stars' light (yes, even light can exert radiation pressure) blows away the remaining nearby gas and you are left with an open cluster of stars that formed from the gas. Oh there is so much more interesting stuff, but my minute is up, and this is primarily a camping forum.

At midnight during the Pork Rally, Orion will be rising in the east, and Wanderers can train their binoculars to the middle "star" in Orion's sword to see the Orion nebula (M42). It is being ionized/illuminated by four young stars called the Trapezium. In Taurus there is the naked-eye open cluster (where most of the gas is now gone) - the Pleiades (M45). It will also be in the east, rising at about 8 p.m. I'm willing to bet that most Wanderers are already familiar with the Pleiades, and I'm curious as to how many have looked at it with binoculars. It's a great binocular target.

Now, I'll bet John D and others have their own particular favorite objects to share. I've blathered on enough.
 
I like to point out the Andromeda Galaxy (aka M31, Andromeda Nebula) to people, since it's (practically) the most-distant naked-eye object: 2.5 million light years. It's named for the Andromeda constellation where it's found, but since I don't know that constellation I've figured out "pointers" from Cassiopeia (looks like a W).

Might want to keep an eye on Andromeda since it's predicted to collide with our Milky Way galaxy in 4.5 billion years. :eek:

................
So...I just-now learned that the Triangulum Galaxy (M33) is slightly farther away than Andromeda -- and barely naked-eye -- at magnitude 5.8, compared to much-brighter Andromeda Galaxy at magnitude 3.4.
In the Triangulum Constellation, near Andromeda.
 
The southern tip of Cignus, the swan, A.K.A Albireo is a really nice double star. It's easily viewed with a pair of binoculars. Cleary, one star is red (or golden) and the other blue.

Also, about equadistant between the 2 southern stars of the parallelgram which partially make Lyra is M57, the ring neblua. I have never found it with binoculars, but it's easy to find with a small telescope. It looks like a donut with a small dot in the middle of it.

A slow cruise along the Milkyway with binoculars, a telescope, or the naked eye will always be an enjoyable trip.

The "M" objects were named by Charles Messier, a 16th century astonomer, who was looking for comets and plotted all diffuse objects he saw in the sky, and then revisited them later to see if they had changed position (which would indicate a moving object like a comet). I don't think he ever found a comet, but he did catalog 109 distinct objects. Offiicially there are 110 Messier objects, but 61 and 62 are the same. Messier did his observing before the invention of the telescope, so all "M" objects should be visible from dark skies, by dark adapted eyes.
 
"Shapley-Curtis Debate"

I have been struggling through it since highz told us about it. I began lecturing to a couple of my Navy buddies about it at lunch today. I know some really good stuff now.

We need a place on the WTW web site for astronomy because this stuff is important for us. Incidentally, the Mount Wilson Observatory allows groups to use the 60 inch telescope. How about highz giving us a star party. We could park our campers right at the observatory. They even have picnic tables up there. John D
 
Here is some viewing for those with scope's or binoculars.
Saturday, October 30
TWIN SHADOWS ON JUPITER
Jupiter takes centre stage in late autumn as the lone evening planet visible to the naked eye. Through a telescope, its orbiting moons provide a constant source of eclipses and occultations as they move around Jupiter. October 30/31 is one of the best nights of the year for a Jovian moon dance, as Europa and Ganymede both cast their shadows onto the planet at once. This double shadow transit is a late-night event visible all across North America, beginning at 12:15 a.m., EDT (10:15 p.m., MDT).

Cheers.
Kevin.
 
Here is some viewing for those with scope's or binoculars.
Saturday, October 30
TWIN SHADOWS ON JUPITER
Jupiter takes centre stage in late autumn as the lone evening planet visible to the naked eye. Through a telescope, its orbiting moons provide a constant source of eclipses and occultations as they move around Jupiter. October 30/31 is one of the best nights of the year for a Jovian moon dance, as Europa and Ganymede both cast their shadows onto the planet at once. This double shadow transit is a late-night event visible all across North America, beginning at 12:15 a.m., EDT (10:15 p.m., MDT).

Cheers.
Kevin.

Thanks Kevin. If the sky is clear that Saturday night, I'll have the telescope setup in the front yard. A properly placed telescope with something interesting to view is a great way to bring a neighborhood together. :)
 
I like to point out the Andromeda Galaxy (aka M31, Andromeda Nebula) to people, since it's (practically) the most-distant naked-eye object: 2.5 million light years. It's named for the Andromeda constellation where it's found, but since I don't know that constellation I've figured out "pointers" from Cassiopeia (looks like a W).

Might want to keep an eye on Andromeda since it's predicted to collide with our Milky Way galaxy in 4.5 billion years. :eek:

................
So...I just-now learned that the Triangulum Galaxy (M33) is slightly farther away than Andromeda -- and barely naked-eye -- at magnitude 5.8, compared to much-brighter Andromeda Galaxy at magnitude 3.4.
In the Triangulum Constellation, near Andromeda.


Andromeda is one of my favorites because it looks like a "real" galaxy "should" look to an amateur and easy to point out to people. This summer, it was really dark and I was looking south about 10pm at Sagittarius (low in the sky). In that area there are quite a few nebula and good objects to see with binocs. Maybe HighZ can tell us more about those. And does Sagittarius ever get much higher than in mid-summer?

High-Z can correct me here, but I if I recall right, the part of the Milky Way near Sagittarius is the direction of the center of our galaxy- the part with the super massive black hole. Too cool.
 
Andromeda is one of my favorites because it looks like a "real" galaxy "should" look to an amateur and easy to point out to people. This summer, it was really dark and I was looking south about 10pm at Sagittarius (low in the sky). In that area there are quite a few nebula and good objects to see with binocs. Maybe HighZ can tell us more about those. And does Sagittarius ever get much higher than in mid-summer?

High-Z can correct me here, but I if I recall right, the part of the Milky Way near Sagittarius is the direction of the center of our galaxy- the part with the super massive black hole. Too cool.


Yeah Sagittarius = galactic center direction.
I remember a few years ago -- maybe my first trip to the north-east section of the Black Rock Desert, at the western base of the Jackson Mts (the day before I climbed King Lear Peak). Looking up at the big dark sky I noticed a section, a lobe, of the Milky Way that I'd never noticed before because it's a little dimmer than most of the rest. When mentioning this discovery to friends they were't impressed -- they're not astro-nerds -- but it was cool to me. :p
 
Here is a pic I took of that sky with Sagittarius

gallery_168_254_314211.jpg



Nice Brett!
Sagittarius is one of the rare constellations that -- at least partially -- kinda looks like what it's supposed to be. If you know what to look for you can see the archers bow clearly. To see the rest requires whatever substances those ancient Greeks were into. Surely just wine wouldn't be enough. ;)
 
Nice photo Brett! It even shows the dark gas and dust that obscures our view of the center of the Galaxy. One of the projects that is just gearing up here at Apache Point will try to look further into that gas and dust by using spectrographs that are sensitive in the infrared. The way light scatters off of dust is a function of wavelength, and infrared scatters less than visible light. (Similarly, red light scatters less than blue which is why the sky is blue - scattered light - but the sun looks red at sunset - the less scattered red light gets from the Sun to your eye. The atmosphere does the scattering in this case). The new spectrographs will arrive from the U. Virginia this winter for commissioning, and we should start taking data in the spring. That's what it says on paper anyway ;) We will target objects found in the 2MASS IR imaging survey.

Any Wanderer that is passing through S. New Mexico, feel free to PM me to arrange a special tour of Apache Point. But I warn you that I plan to retire in a little less than two years, and I don't know if insurance policies will allow me to give tours after that. Also be forewarned that we don't use eyepieces to look through the telescopes. We just hook up cameras and spectrographs, so I can't offer night-time viewing. Sorry.

Hey, Mark - Sagittarius will forever and always look like a teapot to me :D

Sag is setting early now, and is best viewed in the summer, as you mentioned. It will get higher in the sky in summer as you travel further south, but anywhere in the US, it will stay pretty low. There are a lot of open and globular clusters in that part of the Milky Way (you can see some in Brett's photo), so kick back in a comfy camping chair with your binoculars, and you will find many of them. Two famous emission nebulae there are the Lagoon (M8) and Trifid (M20). Both are good in small telescopes. It's a very rich part of the sky and others can chime in with their favorites there.
 

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