ATC vs. FWC Side Liner

[sgiandubh]

Hey Folks,

So, I'm in the process of getting my '82 Grandby dried in and I am about to order a replacement sideliner. I am leaning toward the ATC replacement, but I covet your opinions on superiority of one or the other. I have the basic differences down...I think. Different processes to plasticize the material. FWC seems to have the edge on that. Storm flaps inside for the FWC and outside for the ATC. Not sure if one way is vastly better than the other, other than not having to get out in the weather to put them down. And then price. ATC has the advantage here.

Price is a factor but not the only one. Is there less condensation with one or the other? Like I mentioned, I'm leaning towards the ATC due to cost principally as even if the FWC holds a slight advantage in longevity, apparently the new material is more robust, it doesn't seem that the old material was prone to failure with proper care.

I did some searching and it seems to be pretty much a toss-up between folks using FWC and ATC with a couple folks making their own. I'm not really into delving into fabricating my own liner...so, what do you all think?

Thanks in advance!

Removing the old liner...among other things.

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

I believe the new All Terrain Camper sideliners now have removable outside rain flaps. Since they also have inside flaps you can use the outer ones, or not, depending on wind, etc. I particularly like using the outside flaps propped up as little awnings for shade and rain protection while still having good ventilation.

 

[AK Nomad]

Notice the stepladder. I sure wish my old Grandby had the newer style windows.

 

[takesiteasy]

We have an ATC with the removeable flaps. We have them off most of the time, unless it looks like a really good blow coming. We store them under the mattress. We have a step stool that we use to get in and out that works fine for putting the flaps on. Sometimes we leave them on and just roll them up- the velcro holds them up. I don't have experience with the FWC liner but we like the heavy duty ATC liner just fine- don't think I would pay extra for the FWC just to escape flaps without knowing other clear advantages. I am curious what exactly is the difference between the ATC window set up and the FWC where exterior flaps evidently arent needed. How do they keep the water out in a good rain storm? Anybody know the difference or have a detail photo of the FWC window?

 

[rotti]

I wouldn't want to deal with outside flaps....no need and just another aggravation.

The FWC system works fine. I was in severe rain and wind storm just after this picture was taken and no issues with leakage what so ever. My wife was concerned that the whole rig was going over.

Edit

On edit, i purchased a new Grandby in 1983 with the old tan type material. Used that camper twenty some years and the material was okay but the new river raft rubbery stuff is far superior. The arctic pac liner is a worthwhile addition also....I leave mine in year round.

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Notice the stepladder.

The longer stepladder is for my not-so-well designed homemade rear awning; it is needed if I install the rear awning after popping the top. The normal, short stepladder (photo), which most of us carry for entry, works fine for raising or lowering the outside flaps.

One should also keep in mind that the old style flaps can also be left rolled up when driving or even removed in the new version All Terrain Camper sideliner--clearly the best of both worlds!

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I think to have outside flaps or not to have them is a personal preference.Me I like them. They are no fuss to open and have the added feature of using them as awnings,which to me is the biggest plus.
IMO I would get whichever liner you think is the best (seems like the ATC one fits that bill),and get the "storm flaps",either attached or not.
The material used by ATC I believe is the type used on rafts.
Frank

 

[Edgewood]

Could someone post a picture of what they use to utilize the flaps as an awnings? Thanks.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Could someone post a picture of what they use to utilize the flaps as an awnings? Thanks.

Ask and you will receive.Hope the photos help.
I made my "awning" frames from 1/2" PVC and needed fittings.
They have velcro on the end short pipe to hold them to the liner.
They just fold up when the top is lowered,you don't have to remove them.
It's a simple do.Replace the "wooden" strip that is in the flap with a piece of 1/2' pipe and build onto the ends.I only use them on 3 of the windows.The right side front stays rolled up all the time so I can see out from the bed.
Frank

 

[Dughlas Stiubhart]

Could someone post a picture of what they use to utilize the flaps as an awnings? Thanks.

Actually, my first photo above shows one window with an awning set up. Mine are not as high tech as Franks--just strips of plywood with velco on the ends painted black.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Actually, my first photo above shows one window with an awning set up. Mine are not as high tech as Franks--just strips of plywood with velco on the ends painted black.

Stew,I have seen some like yours that are triangles that seem to work well.
My "high tech" aren't really,just out of want to not have something extra to find a spot for.
At any rate the whole idea of using the flaps as an awning,sun or rain is a plus IMO
Thanks though
Frank

 

[sgiandubh]

All,

Thanks for the responses and the pictures. I really like the use of the storm flaps as small awnings. That confirms ATC for me.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

All,

Thanks for the responses and the pictures. I really like the use of the storm flaps as small awnings. That confirms ATC for me.

Just a thought.Do you want them attached?Mine are I like them that way.Talk to Marty about the sewn on type vs the removable.
You should have a choice.
Good luck.
Frank

 

[sgiandubh]

Frank,

Thanks for the heads up! It seems to me that there wouldn't be a huge advantage to having removable flaps. I will definitely talk to Marty about that. When I spoke to him on the phone last week he was very helpful and I look forward to working with ATC on this.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

You will find that Marty and all the people at ATC are service minded.
I may be bias but they have always been great to me.


Frank

 

[sgiandubh]

@Rotti,

You mention the value of the arctic pack. Do you have any impression of how much insulation it provides? We love fall and winter camping but my wife loves cozy temperatures for sleeping. As I have the original furnace (that I gather draws around 4 amps when running) limiting run time is going to be key. Just trying to quantify its real world R value so to speak. Thanks!

Tim

 

[ntsqd]

If there is an internally insulated option I'd go with it regardless of the type of climes you plan to use it in.

 

[WyoIDI]

Make sure to document the the process of adding the new side liner. I'm considering doing this soon to my 80's grandby as well. Someone had done somewhat of a botch job on a new liner in the past with my camper and I'm very interested in your project, good luck

 

[rotti]

@Rotti,

You mention the value of the arctic pack. Do you have any impression of how much insulation it provides? We love fall and winter camping but my wife loves cozy temperatures for sleeping. As I have the original furnace (that I gather draws around 4 amps when running) limiting run time is going to be key. Just trying to quantify its real world R value so to speak. Thanks!

Tim

Tim here is thread discussing the arctic pack option: http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/2798-artic-pack/?hl=artic

It's not a cheap option but I am glad got it. The R value itself isn't much but it creates about a 1" dead air space and seems to really help. If you do a lot of cold weather camping I would consider ordering it....or at least have ATC put in the velcro attachments so you could add it later (they may do that anyway).

 

[sgiandubh]

Make sure to document the the process of adding the new side liner. I'm considering doing this soon to my 80's grandby as well. Someone had done somewhat of a botch job on a new liner in the past with my camper and I'm very interested in your project, good luck

I will be sure to document as I go. In talking to Marty, it seems to be a very doable job. Time will tell.

Rotti,

Thanks for the link! It's good to hear that you notice a difference. I am looking at improving the the insulation of the camper in any way that I can.