Attention a Electrical Sleuths

[K7MDL]

Just measured the two outside vents on our 2-way Isotherm 130L in our '16 Hawk...upper vent opening [louvers] 17" x 7" and lower vent 17" x 6.5". The area behind the fridge and inside these vents is perhaps 3" deep and open between upper and lower vents...lots of venting..the bottom vent has a latch and is hinged at the top; why I don't know.

The lower hatch opens to service the propane and electrical connections of the normal 3 way fridges. Like cleaning the pilot flame tip.

 

[craig333]

While I didn't have to have a latch, it sure helped wiring the fridge and the fan.

 

[DrJ]

More solar, more ventilation, more wiring, more batteries...

Sounds like you have quite an adventure planned.

One of the biggest frustrations is that most people who own campers don't understand 12 volt batteries, wiring, solar,etc...

I was a chemistry major as an undergraduate and I still didn't understand them at first.
It takes time and effort just like learning anything else in life.

To complicate the problem most RV dealers and camper dealers do not understand it either. They just want to sell you more stuff. Just ask HandyBob about that.

After 200 amps of AGM batteries, trimetric monitor, 250 watts of solar (with 135 watts portable), Blue Sea ACR for truck charging, MPPT charge controller, I can finally run 2 different compressor fridges at the same time (one just yours and a ARB one too).

You will figure it all out, but it is crazy frustrating that no dealer can do this for you.

What we need is a dealer that actually understands our mods, solar, batteries, wiring and our traveling enough to actually make this work.

Maybe someone needs open a shop???

 

[Terrapin]

You may not realize that you just defined the state of our economy and an unfortunate loss to our future. It's all about marketing, new stuff and profit.

Plug and play baby. Throw away the old, plug in the new.

This forum may represent a dying breed......

 

[Terrapin]

Wallows,
Was your Isotherm installation done at the factory? If so. I wonder why they included the generous venting on yours and not on mine which is a similar sized fridge with a similar condenser? Do you think adding a fan is in your future?

I think I'd like to duplicate your setup. If we end up replacing the fridge unit, I'd like that 130 Isotherm as well.

Ted

 

[Wallowa]

Wallows,
Was your Isotherm installation done at the factory? If so. I wonder why they included the generous venting on yours and not on mine which is a similar sized fridge with a similar condenser? Do you think adding a fan is in your future?

I think I'd like to duplicate your setup. If we end up replacing the fridge unit, I'd like that 130 Isotherm as well.

Ted

Ted,

Our '16 Hawk came with the Isotherm and no plans to add a fan..with the generous venting and trying to keep that side of the camper out of direct sun we should be OK.

Another option we have is the new style outdoor shower...valve is a marine style/single handle product and an easy plug in....this is not something you asked about but others are having issues with the previous double handled/quick disconnect model.

I am new to this, but in doing my research before we purchased my sense is that FWC does indeed change options and construction to improve the quality and functionality of FWCs. I do not believe it is primarily about "profit" but of course they need profit to stay in business and another point is that suppliers of components have dried up from time to time and they needed to switch vendors. It is my belief that when forced to find another source that FWC also looks for a better source.

Phil

 

[97grandby]

Well a project is in my future. Larger vent for fridge (4x12 for 48 inches), a 12v fan and a hard wire kit from Arb that has direct connection to my battery with 8 gauge wire. I am also going to swap out my batts for 2 6v batts on my toy hauler. One way or another I will not have melted ice cream at the overland expo this weekend.


1990 Ford F-250
1997 fwc grandby

 

[Rusty]

you might want to check my gallery...there are photos of a dual 12v fan/copper heat sync installation on my alaskan. Ventilating a refer properly will not only improve the performance of the refer but increase the life of batteries, electronics et al...less work for everything.

don't forget a lighted switch for the fans.....they don't draw much but if you leave them on for weeks... ...there might be a problem

and...don't point the lighted switch at the location where your wife sleeps

I've read most of this thread....pretty good stuff!!....solar too small...batteries hooked up incorrectly...not enough room or venting for the refer.....all in concert

my refer is a Norcold 300...120v side has a relay and converter to 12v for a heat strip in the same tube as the propane exhaust...no compressor...heat evacuation is how they cool...less exo...less cooling

retaining heat in a system which depends on release of heat for its operation is like turning off or severely restricting its operation...sorry I'm late to this conversation...I went to great lengths to know all clearances and the impacts restricting them would have on my installation....the copper sync was part of the equation as were the computer micro fans....that was in 2008

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/gallery/image/10070-dsc01597jpg/

the install was done with fire caulking...as was the lining of the compartment...with an old refrigerator skin...all fire caulked....I figure it gives me a little extra time to get out...just in case

as for the square inches...

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/gallery/image/10068-dsc01595jpg/

84 top, 84 bottom....mo is betta...lots mo is lots betta....designed for best propane operation...which makes it a slam dunk for electrical....no solar...one battery....10 days out no problemo....refer on gas, all lights on 12v

I've considered solar for longer trips out...but then I'd be looking for showers more often.....

I forgot something......I forget alot more these days....camper leveling...close is no good...level!..compressor or gas or 12v or 120v....they work when level...and not so good not level

 

[Terrapin]

Boys,
I'm just out of surgery for a double hernia repair so hope this is a lucid post.
I do want to comment on how much I have enjoyed this conversation.
It makes me wish for a face to face gathering of like minded folks who look for problems to solve and are open to alternative approaches.

My upcoming down time will give me an opportunity to reread the offerings and ponder each suggestion with more relaxed reflection. One thing, I hope my assessments of the last couple of days have not stifled creative thinking to the point that a brilliant mind or thought, might be withdrawn fearing confrontation that is all to prevalent these days, especially under the anominity of the Internet.
I assure each you that I have read every thought and consider each as an ingredient of this fine stew.

My Sapines may stop here as the drugs are wearing thin........

Warmly,

Ted

 

[craig333]

I have my fan wired so it comes on with the compressor.

 

[Wallowa]

I forgot something......I forget alot more these days....camper leveling...close is no good...level!..compressor or gas or 12v or 120v....they work when level...and not so good not level

Rusty,

Great info and thanks...a question. I understood that a two way [compressor only] did not need to be level to efficiently work...yes, with propane level is crucial..I am new to this so forgive my goofy questions.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[ntsqd]

I haven't noticed an acute sensitivity to levelness with our 3-way, but it bears more careful observation. Suntinez once told me that there are effectively early and late types of 3-ways with the early version being much more sensitive than the later. She told me the observable difference, but I forget the details and am hesitant to post it lest I lead someone wrong.

With both of our fridge venting 80mm muffin fans blasting away our TriMetric shows a discharge of .1A

 

[Wallowa]

FWC website use to have a great [long] comparison video of the two way vs the three way refrigerators or as I call them "ice boxes", my age showing.

Phil

 

[Rusty]

Rusty,

Great info and thanks...a question. I understood that a two way [compressor only] did not need to be level to efficiently work...yes, with propane level is crucial..I am new to this so forgive my goofy questions.

Thanks,

Phil

Both operating systems in the Norcold(120v/12v or propane)utilize the same tubes, heating and cooling coils...since it doesn't have a compressor it must be as close to level as possible...a wee bit off will work but for every degree off....more work for the system....drain down and cooling speed are determined by acurate coolant flow....determined by level

Compressor based refrig's don't have the need for perfectly level but that's relative......function is still enhanced by draindown or pressure up capability...and level is where the rubber meets the road.

I can get my 120/12v side of the Norcold to do fairly well at about 8 degrees off...but my next camping spot had pretty well be level or things are going to start to smell funny.

3 ways are basically 120v or propane for use at the site and 12v for traveling being constantly charged...since you can just about drain a battery while you're filling up with fuel if you stop and don't shut things off. Deep cycles help but it's still a stretch....90w solar is half or less what you need to charge good sized deep cycles.
There was a time when solar was just getting off it's feet and many didn't understand the relationship of watts in and energy utilization out...todays systems are pretty well done...and can get downright complicated.

On the Alaskan board there's a very long and well documented thread about a particular build involving a detailed Solar installation...."Blueside build"....wire sizes, controllers, batteries et al....sealants, fittings...and on and on

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/8405-bluesideup-alaskan-project/

 

[97grandby]

Well a project is in my future. Larger vent for fridge (4x12 for 48 inches), a 12v fan and a hard wire kit from Arb that has direct connection to my battery with 8 gauge wire. I am also going to swap out my batts for 2 6v batts on my toy hauler. One way or another I will not have melted ice cream at the overland expo this weekend.

ImageUploadedByWander The West1463510873.565149.jpg


1990 Ford F-250
1997 fwc grandby

Well I installed the new vent fan and switch. I also hardwired the 8 gauge Arb wire kit. A bit too early to tell but hope this fixes it


1990 Ford F-250
1997 fwc grandby

 

[97grandby]

1990 Ford F-250
1997 fwc grandby

 

[Terrapin]

Grandby,
Where is it your getting the 8 gauge kit for your fridge?

As a stop gap for poor cooling, we've been using block ice in one drawer them turning the fridge off at night. We made frozen items last for 5 days albeit a bit soft at the end.

If you use sealed batteries, I saw new large 6v ones at the FWC dealer in Tigard Oregon. Supposedly they are modeled after batteries used in wheel chairs and the like. They were not a brand name but I'm sure they were made by a major company.
More power and depth but also expensive, no track record and heavy.
Still gotta keep them charged and I sure can't do it on my 90W solar.

All these mods are improvement but expensive and heavy. I may need to move to a diesel rig if this keeps up!


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

 

[97grandby]

Grandby,
Where is it your getting the 8 gauge kit for your fridge?

As a stop gap for poor cooling, we've been using block ice in one drawer them turning the fridge off at night. We made frozen items last for 5 days albeit a bit soft at the end.

If you use sealed batteries, I saw new large 6v ones at the FWC dealer in Tigard Oregon. Supposedly they are modeled after batteries used in wheel chairs and the like. They were not a brand name but I'm sure they were made by a major company.
More power and depth but also expensive, no track record and heavy.
Still gotta keep them charged and I sure can't do it on my 90W solar.

All these mods are improvement but expensive and heavy. I may need to move to a diesel rig if this keeps up!


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

found it at good ol Amazon. My batteries are by my front turn buckle on the driver side and I simply ran it though the door between the truck and camper and used and removed the vent tube for the ice box out and inserted the 8 gauge wire in its place. Took all of 5 mins to put though and zero new holes in the camper. It comes with the right size wire, fuse and everything in one nice little kit. I'm sure you could make it cheaper and part it out but something to be said for just buying it ready to go out of the box. ARB 10900027 12/24V DC Wiring Kit For Refrigerator https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NIOBC02/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_HnkpxbPMQHPWX


1990 Ford F-250
1997 fwc grandby

 

[Wallowa]

Grandby,
Where is it your getting the 8 gauge kit for your fridge?

As a stop gap for poor cooling, we've been using block ice in one drawer them turning the fridge off at night. We made frozen items last for 5 days albeit a bit soft at the end.

If you use sealed batteries, I saw new large 6v ones at the FWC dealer in Tigard Oregon. Supposedly they are modeled after batteries used in wheel chairs and the like. They were not a brand name but I'm sure they were made by a major company.
More power and depth but also expensive, no track record and heavy.
Still gotta keep them charged and I sure can't do it on my 90W solar.

All these mods are improvement but expensive and heavy. I may need to move to a diesel rig if this keeps up!


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West

Second mention of 6V as opposed to stock 12V batteries. As I understand, that would require double the number of batteries? What is the expected advantage of 6V? Were FWCs once 6V?

Phil

 

[Bad Habit]

6V batteries (aka Golf Cart batteries) are typically true deep cycle batteries designed to be drawn down slowly, and then recharged vs. starting batteries which are designed for a higher, shorter duration use (i.e. starting an engine). 6V batteries have fewer cells, so typically are made with bigger plates so more robust. You do need 2 in series though to attain the 12v. If one goes, you're dead in the water