Battery Questions

D

doc

Advanced Member
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Jan 12, 2016
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Hi all,

We have a 2016 Grandby with OEM dual battery set-up (Exide Edge FP-AGM24DP x2) and roof top solar. Electricity has never been an issue, ever. However, on this last trip, after daily driving (and solar) charging, the batteries would be full in the evening, and then nearly dead in the AM. Even in the evening, running the water pump would cause the lights to dim extensively. This trip wasn't an issue, but planning a Winter trip, so definitely can't run out of power.

1. Is it a bit premature for these to fail just over 2 years old?
2. Is there something I can do to "reset" them... drain them dead, then recharge?
3. If they need to be replaced... go with something else, or same?
4. Going forward... battery maintenance... camper stored outside, so they're constantly being charged by solar. Is this less ideal? Should I keep them hooked up to shore power when camper not in use? Or unplug them entirely when not in use?

Thank you in advance!
 
Never drain AGM batteries. You don't want them to get below the minimum ever. Our camper is stored outdoors and covered in the winter. I hook up my portable every 4-6 weeks and never get below 12.6. Get your batteries tested. We are in the 5th camping season with the original batteries.
 
Doc, have your batteries checked. I spoke with a prominent builder who bought a number of Exide batteries for their campers. I was told they had a very early high failure rate, which they had to eat. Per the conversation, Exide imported AGMs from China for their west coast sales. East coast Exide batteries are purported to be made in house, and not having the failures.

I suspect what I was told is true, but regardless... check your batteries.
 
Hi, Doc-

Curiosity question-- Have you noticed any symptoms of the batteries being overcharged (like the following)....

LPG/CO alarm going off for no apparent reason?

Rotten-eggs smell around the batteries?

Audible boiling sounds at the batteries?

Elevated temperature at battery post(s) (> 125 *F)?

And can you verify that the battery-type setting is set to AGM on your solar controller? (if it's nearby)
 
Thanks everyone for the replies -- very useful information. It seems my knowledge of battery systems is quite poor, and now only marginally better, but moving in the right direction. I find it very...coincidental...that others have had problems with the ZAMP/Exide set-up +/- this issue of the propane alarm (I too had this problem)... strange.

I fear Vic is right, my batteries are likely shot. I'll need to have them tested. Once confirmed, the question will be if the ZAMP controller is overcharging them, if they're a bad batch of batteries, or if something else caused their (presumed) failure is yet to be determined. We're generally pretty light on battery use, so I don't think it was something we caused.
 
Old Crow said:
Hi, Doc-

Curiosity question-- Have you noticed any symptoms of the batteries being overcharged (like the following)....

LPG/CO alarm going off for no apparent reason? YES. To the point where I (and others) replaced the unit. I figured maybe it failed. So far running OK.

Rotten-eggs smell around the batteries? No

Audible boiling sounds at the batteries? No (but also don't listen)

Elevated temperature at battery post(s) (> 125 *F)? No (but also don't check)

And can you verify that the battery-type setting is set to AGM on your solar controller? Yes, ZAMP on AGM

Maybe I just have crappy batteries, and my propane alarm went bad too. Maybe they're related. All interesting.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, Doc...

No smoking gun there!

I'll be interested to see what you learn with the battery test.

Unfortunately, that can be a frustrating experience in itself as we see in the Fridge Causes Voltage Drop thread. I think I'd call FWC to let them know what's going on and see if they can recommend how best to proceed (as I believe you have warranty rights). You might also want to review the warranty info you received with the batteries before making the call.


.
 
I'm sensing a common cause here... The ZAMP controller. That plus a lack of good monitoring. With good monitoring, you might realize in advance that your batteries are getting cooked or under charged.
 
I hope I didn't get a bad deal but just bought a pair of Duracell Platinum AGM's from Batteries Plus. Their rap was that AGM batteries can take much more abuse then water filled batteries. Good or bad and I won't debate the facts but sometimes the batteries just get drained on long trips. Based on what they were telling me I would expect to get at least five years of life even with some abuse.
 
Tahoems said:
I hope I didn't get a bad deal but just bought a pair of Duracell Platinum AGM's from Batteries Plus. Their rap was that AGM batteries can take much more abuse then water filled batteries. Good or bad and I won't debate the facts but sometimes the batteries just get drained on long trips. Based on what they were telling me I would expect to get at least five years of life even with some abuse.
Click to expand...
From what I've found out recently in my battery research I question the statement they made to you that AGMs can take more abuse than wet cells. I just recently replaced my AGMs with 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series.....they last as long, if not longer, than AGMs, they're cheaper, and they're tough....they go in golf carts, and you know what kind of daily abuse carts go through. You've got the new AGMs, so go with them, but definitely get a battery monitor and see how your charging is doing. Do you have an IOTA converter with 4-stage charging? Solar panel?
 
Not trying to hone in on someone else’s topic, but I’ve got a single AGM that needs to be replaced.
I’ve been looking at another AGM or two, but keep hearing about the Ah ratings of the 6V batteries. I’m concerned about off gassing.
What do people do to vent their lead acid batteries? Cut holes and put vents in the side of their camper?
Just want to learn and understand how others have addressed the off gassing issues.
 
Here's a link to a 6V AGM I found online...the dimensions are like my old type 24 AGM 12V battery:




https://www.wholesalesolar.com/9960101/crown/batteries/crown-6crv220-220ah-6v-agm-battery

I just installed 6V wet cells in my camper. Gassing so far hasn't really been an issue. I do catch a whiff of sulfur occasionally when I open the cabinet door but it's minor. The only time you should smell any gas, if at all, is when the batteries are in a high charge state, i.e., bulk charging or equalization charging, and the voltage is high.

I'll probably order a few of these:

http://www.flowsystemsusa.com/water-miser-vent-cap.html

I read some reviews on these...supposedly they do a good job of keeping gas within the battery.
 
Radar, I would be remiss if I didn't say this... Please do vent your battery boxes if using FLA batteries.

That said, proper adjustment of the battery charging voltages will avoid unnecessary boiling of the batteries, but sometimes they WILL gas off, especially during equalization.

Those doodads you linked to should reduce the frequency of water refills, but as HandyBob and others point out, if your charger is set up right you will lose very little water.

Here is a link to HandyBob's RV page... warning, he rants and is verbose! - https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/

And if you feel like reading more:
Rolls/Surrette Battery manual - http://rollsbattery.com/public/docs/user_manual/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf
Rolls/Surrette Battery maintenance advice - http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/431-preventive-maintenance
Rolls/Surrette Battery log book - https://www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/BatteryMaintenance.pdf
 
Vic Harder said:
Radar, I would be remiss if I didn't say this... Please do vent your battery boxes if using FLA batteries.

That said, proper adjustment of the battery charging voltages will avoid unnecessary boiling of the batteries, but sometimes they WILL gas off, especially during equalization.

Those doodads you linked to should reduce the frequency of water refills, but as HandyBob and others point out, if your charger is set up right you will lose very little water.

Here is a link to HandyBob's RV page... warning, he rants and is verbose! - https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/

And if you feel like reading more:
Rolls/Surrette Battery manual - http://rollsbattery.com/public/docs/user_manual/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf
Rolls/Surrette Battery maintenance advice - http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/431-preventive-maintenance
Rolls/Surrette Battery log book - https://www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/BatteryMaintenance.pdf
Click to expand...
Vic, I hear you. Seems like the only time I get gassing is if the charging voltages are high, but haven't really determined the cutoff. Never get any with float charge. Absorption, probably at higher voltages. Bulk, yes. I'm wondering if I set the absorption charge to a lower value than what the manufacturer recommends, if that would solve the problem for the majority of charging I'll be doing. My battery is recommended for 14.55 V absorption. In any case, the gas isn't much of an issue, infrequent and small.

Just read HandyBob's spiel on charging....probably can't go below 14.4V to get a full charge, according to his math.
 
radarcontact said:
Vic, I hear you. Seems like the only time I get gassing is if the charging voltages are high, but haven't really determined the cutoff. Never get any with float charge. Absorption, probably at higher voltages. Bulk, yes. I'm wondering if I set the absorption charge to a lower value than what the manufacturer recommends, if that would solve the problem for the majority of charging I'll be doing. My battery is recommended for 14.55 V absorption.
Click to expand...
Oh, don't do that! The point of getting a controller that has adjustable settings is to set them to what the manuf recommends. And you will be gassing off during bulk charging anyway, so... vents are in order!
 
Well, I made it over to Batteries Plus who tested my batteries. One was totally shot, the other was dying. If I understood him correctly, the second had 32 amp hours under load, so not doing too well. He mentioned Exide batteries are considered quite good and was quite surprised to see them fail so early, even if we abused them. At any rate, I bit the bullet and bought a couple new ones. It seems to be good battery monitoring is important.

On the ZAMP controller, the voltage read-out is telling you the current volts on the batteries, correct?

And, on the four wheel camper power/water panel, when you press the battery button, do we know what each level corresponds to? I mean, for water it is easy, level in the tank, but how about for the batteries? I looked through my manuals and couldn't figure it out...

I'm not a trekie, but it seems more than ever it is reasonable to quote Dr. Bones McCoy, "I'm a doctor, not an engineer."

 
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