Beginning to Troubleshoot Intermittent Electrical Failures....Iota?

R

Ruck_and_Roll

Senior Member
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Apr 29, 2019
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Location
Grand Junction, Colorado
Hello y'all.

Well anyways I have a 2008 Hawk. I've done a few electrical upgrades (with the help of the forum and everything has performed flawlessly).

-IQ4 addon
-Victorn Battery Monitor
-Victron 75/15 charge controller with 160 watt solar
-125 AH AGM battery VMAX Tank

until...

I recently removed my Surepower 1314. (I believe it had failed as I was getting inconsistent truck charging). So I put in the BlueSea 7622 w/the manual control. The manual switch works.
Truck charging is fine now. I can tell with the battery monitor I am getting amps in when it is dark out (solar not working), switch is "on" and truck is running and in neutral, battery gets charged.

Not sure if this coincidence or not but this is the crux of the issue...I have had intermittent failure with any of the electrical devices that are wired through the Iota.

1. First time it happened was a few weeks ago I was out boondocking and switched on the power and theonly thing that was powered was the FWC battery monitor and water gauge (believe they are wired seperately from the Iota). Had adequate battery power. Returned home in the afternoon the following day and went to go troubleshoot and everything worked fine.
2. Second time it happened was this morning. Yesterday evening, operated the water pump, and the exterior and interior lights (Iota). Everything worked fine. This morning I got up to fire up the furnace and switched on an interior light, and it went on for about 5 minutes, then it was almost like something tripped, lights flicked off, then back on and furnace restarted. Shortly thereafter everything went dead (except for the FWC monitors). Battery at about 12.8 volts. So it happened a second time. Returned home today to do some troubleshooting, plug into AC, and ready to open everything up and have a peek inside but all the Iota fixtures are again functional.

Anyone have any ideas before I go down an electrical rabbit hole?

Best,

Luke
 
I am assuming the 'iota' is some sort of fuse panel, and not the iota converter?
 
R&R, what was wrong in case #1? I don't see you saying anything about something not working there. Aaah, unless you mean to say that you ONLY had power to the battery monitor and water tank level lights, and everything else was dead? What was the Victron BMV telling you at that point? "Adequate power" doesn't mention current flow, etc.

I share rando's confusion regarding your use of the term IOTA for something besides the IOTA battery charger that you would have put the IQ4 module into.

And the biggest change in the last little while has been the switch from the SurePower to the Blue Sea separator?
 
IOTA normally only powers components inside the camper when you are plugged into 120v shore power (AC).

The two 12v wires coming out of the IOTA usually go the main lug on the fuse block, so if you are plugged in to 120v shore power, ALL fuses on the fuse block should be getting power.

Not sure how you wired your system?
 
Loose wiring connection somewhere. What's puzzling is that the battery/water gauge still works since power to that also comes from the distribution panel. Nevertheless, I still think there's a loose wire between the battery and the DC distribution panel. Maybe cycle the battery disconnect switch a few times to make sure it's not corroded, check how tight the battery connections are. You know, easy stuff first. Since multiple devices fail at once it's probably not a single fuse/holder. Darn those intermittent problems!
 
Same thing as the first, meant to say had only power to the pump water tank and monitor lights. BMV, if I recall, was saying something ~12.9 volts, maybe 0.2 Amps + as there was still some sunlight.

Yes, that was the only change.
Vic Harder said:
R&R, what was wrong in case #1? I don't see you saying anything about something not working there. Aaah, unless you mean to say that you ONLY had power to the battery monitor and water tank level lights, and everything else was dead? What was the Victron BMV telling you at that point? "Adequate power" doesn't mention current flow, etc.

I share rando's confusion regarding your use of the term IOTA for something besides the IOTA battery charger that you would have put the IQ4 module into.

And the biggest change in the last little while has been the switch from the SurePower to the Blue Sea separator?
Click to expand...
 
esimmers said:
Loose wiring connection somewhere. What's puzzling is that the battery/water gauge still works since power to that also comes from the distribution panel. Nevertheless, I still think there's a loose wire between the battery and the DC distribution panel. Maybe cycle the battery disconnect switch a few times to make sure it's not corroded, check how tight the battery connections are. You know, easy stuff first. Since multiple devices fail at once it's probably not a single fuse/holder. Darn those intermittent problems!
Click to expand...

You may have caused a loose wire/connection when you were replacing the Surepower 1314 unit even though you did not see it. Test wires and push pull them to see if things go on and off.
 
Update.

Checked all of the wires. No noticeable loose connection. Starting to think it has to do with battery performance and charging efficiency.

Happened again last evening. This time I was running multiple electrical fixtures (heater, one of the lights, and 12v plug for charging). I kept an eye on the battery monitor. Was losing about -5amps. What I did see that my battery voltage was dropping under load precipitously (from ~13 volts to 12.8 to 12.5 in what seemed like 20 minutes), so I began turning things off. Few minutes later the whole system went dead (again, except for pump/monitors). With everything off after the power died, the voltage monitor read ~13 volts. Tried again in 15 minutes last evening (nothing), this morning (nothing), and voila-this afternoon, everything works. I am theorizing that solar gave it enough juice to turn back on. Again, I NEVER had this sort of problem when I had the surepower 1314/1315.

1. is anyone aware of voltage cutoff or some sort of breaker with the house distribution?
2. What I am noticing is that house battery voltage after install of Bluesea seems to drop quicker than it ever has.
3. The other factor I am now looking at is possible improper and insufficient charging to begin with. (rookie move I know) I have the 160 watt solar but I don't recall "plugging in" to shore power prior to any of these trips. (lazy, I know). Thinking this could be it, but open to other theories. (Currently plugged in now!)

Best,

Luke
 
I think you wrote that you have a battery monitor on your house battery. Is it showing that your battery is healthy and taking a full charge? What type and size is the battery?

It is not clear to me what the conditions are each time you have had the problem. I am wondering if the ACR is shutting off and your house battery is getting discharged.

When you have the problem is the ACR manually engaged?

Are the LEDs in the manual switch blinking quickly (showing lockout) when the problem occurs?

If not are the LEDs in the switch off?
 
Ruck_and_Roll said:
Craig,
-Vmax Tanks 110 ah AGM
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR27-110-12Volts-110AH-Deep-Cycle-XTREME-AGM-Battery_p_175.html
-In order to troubleshoot, I have run it with the ACR, "off". LEDs are off.
Click to expand...
Luke, when troubleshooting, what happens if you force the ACR to connect to the truck battery? If everything powers back up, then I suspect your house battery is failing or ... as Craig points out ... it may not be fully charged to begin with. The battery voltage dropping quickly is a sign of a weak battery.


Use a good shore power connection with a good battery charger (NOCO brand comes to mind) and charge the house battery until the charger says it is full... then retest.
 
When the manual force to connect switch is in the AUTO position the ACR opens (disconnects the two batteries) when the battery goes below 12.75 V for 30 seconds or below 12.35 V for 10 seconds.

It reconnects the two batteries when the voltage goes above 13.0 V for 90 seconds or 13.5 V for 30 seconds.

When the ACR switch is in the OFF position the two batteries are disconnected from each other.

When the ACR switch is in the ON position the batteries will remain connected unless the voltage drops below 9.6 V or rises above 16.2 V.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/990180180.pdf


I am wondering if you have only been getting partial charges on your house battery and then it drops too low to get a recharge from the truck battery.

I am also wondering what clues the history function on your Victron battery monitor might give you? e.g. how much discharging before recharging and are you getting full recharging before discharging again.

Finally, I am wondering if the Truck battery and the House battery are the same and if the cable from the ACR to each of the batteries is adequately sized.

Different batteries have different charging needs. Also if the cable from the ACR to the two batteries is not large and/or if the run is long to one of them, there may be a voltage drop. I think the ACR can cause undercharging/overcharging unless you have paid close attention to this.

AGM batteries should be fully recharged between discharges. Consistently not fully recharging after use can significantly reduce battery life.
 
Thanks guys for your suggestions. I am starting to think my problems are bigger than the ACR.

Battery monitor (house) is showing voltage above 13v volts and things are now just dead. The battery seems to take a charge from solar but not from AC. So the problem seems to be getting worse, or something is failing. Plugging in tonight and will seenwhat happens tomorrow. But what happened prior (where I was at least getting some operational power) is no longer happening.

Tonight I took another deep dive in and actually removed the ACR to attempt to isolate the problem and remove the ACR from the equation. Still no difference.

The only thing that remains powered is the water pump and the original battery monitor when running off of the house battery. When I plug in, everything is operational, but doesn't show charge.

Who knows, maybe I wired something wrong. Going to continue to troubleshoot.
 
Stan@FourWheel said:
IOTA normally only powers components inside the camper when you are plugged into 120v shore power (AC).

The two 12v wires coming out of the IOTA usually go the main lug on the fuse block, so if you are plugged in to 120v shore power, ALL fuses on the fuse block should be getting power.

Not sure how you wired your system?
Click to expand...
@Stan

Factory wired-2008 Hawk.
 
Too weird R&R. Can't be the battery. 13V you say? More than enough. And only pump and original monitor is powered, UNLESS you are on shore power and then everything is powered?

(Just confirming... it's been a while since I tried wrapping my brain around this problem).
 
IMG_7268.JPGIMG_7269.JPGIMG_7270.JPG

Yes, it would not run off DC when not plugged into shore (only pump and battery monitory). Also battery would not charge from AC. Everything was functional on AC....

But I have some good news! I took another dive in tonight and I found the problem. I've attached a picture. I believe this is called a "bus bar." It had all of the negative wires with a metal plate below it. (Is this the plate for grounding to the camper?). I should have started here when I first began troubleshooting as I had seen it before and it never looked good. It is right under the water pump, and there must have been a water leak at some point (bought it used, 2008 model). There was heavy rust and corrosion and the wires going into the bar were in bad shape. I cut down the wires, tried to clean it up a bit, and what do you know....EVERYTHING NOW WORKS ON DC.

So.... this now leads me to my next upgrade as I don't want to rely on this rusted bus bar any longer. Can anyone recommend a suitable replacement?

Also, I am wondering if I should replace a lot of these wires....period. Even after I had cut them 2-3 inches, the wire still appears somewhat friable almost, and has a darkened color. Even the wires that were sheathed looked a little rusted.

Best,

Luke






Vic Harder said:
Too weird R&R. Can't be the battery. 13V you say? More than enough. And only pump and original monitor is powered, UNLESS you are on shore power and then everything is powered?

(Just confirming... it's been a while since I tried wrapping my brain around this problem).
Click to expand...
 
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