Best Cold Weather Tips

[Wallowa]

I have to admit reading this thread is a bit disconcerting .

My Hawk shell is on order and I will be picking up this winter with an immediate cold weather trip planned.

The biggest reasons I'm upgrading from a topper on the back of my truck is so I could get a warm, comfortable nights rest in sub freezing temps. Seems I'm reading so much about ways to upgrade the bedding as many find it not comfortable, and even staying warm with a furnace seems a challenge. Was I naive to think I could set the temp in the mid 60s on a snowy night and achieve this?
I'm having the arctic package installed.

I find the FWC mattress just fine and comfortable; if I buy the Hyper Vent it is only a precautionary move to lessen any condensation under the FWC mattress...my forced air heat will drive you out of our Hawk...even at 45-50 degree temp set it can get too hot in the Hawk, remember you sleep high near the ceiling and heat rises...we sleep with at least one and most often two of our roof vents open [no fans] perhaps 2 " even when temps are low, raining or snowing...as stated you need air circulating because we humans exhale a LOT of moisture...when cooking I always open the window above the stove and roof vent, usually with the fan on low..to vent moisture and CO/Co2

You say you are buying a 'shell'...but mention setting the temp...so I assume your shell has the FWC forced air heat, which does not introduce any moisture into the Hawk...we have the 'arctic pack' and it does create dead space of insulation, but condensation between it and the Hypalon sides can be an issue if you don't vent the camper.

FWC makes a quality product and our '16 Hawk has not disappoint in anyway..Enjoy!

Phil

 

[eyemgh]

I find the FWC mattress just fine and comfortable; if I buy the Hyper Vent it is only a precautionary move to lessen any condensation under the FWC mattress...my forced air heat will drive you out of our Hawk...even at 45-50 degree temp set it can get too hot in the Hawk, remember you sleep high near the ceiling and heat rises...we sleep with at least one and most often two of our roof vents open [no fans] perhaps 2 " even when temps are low, raining or snowing...as stated you need air circulating because we humans exhale a LOT of moisture...when cooking I always open the window above the stove and roof vent, usually with the fan on low..to vent moisture and CO/Co2

You say you are buying a 'shell'...but mention setting the temp...so I assume your shell has the FWC forced air heat, which does not introduce any moisture into the Hawk...we have the 'arctic pack' and it does create dead space of insulation, but condensation between it and the Hypalon sides can be an issue if you don't vent the camper.

FWC makes a quality product and our '16 Hawk has not disappoint in anyway..Enjoy!

Phil

I agree. I get cold occasionally, because I don’t want to risk cranking the heat and getting too hot. I just spent two nights mid-teens with no mods and did fine. I’m just looking to insulate more so that I don’t have to overheat to compensate.

I do wish the thermostat had a tighter range. I’m hoping the insulation will mitigate a bit of the feast or famine feeling of the heater.

 

[camper rich]

I recently helped my wife store her Pleasure Way Class B MH in Tacoma WA where the humidy is quite high. I bought this to absorb the moisture:

https://www.amazon.com/Motorhome-Dehumidifier-Moisture-Absorber-Storage/dp/B005FGNQ3W

I also found this:

https://www.amazon.com/Improved-Eva-dry-333-Renewable-Dehumidifier/dp/B000H0XFCS/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_1/168-0317434-1077414?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000H0XFCS&pd_rd_r=e1170964-7e97-445c-bcdd-25fda5effd53&pd_rd_w=5EM61&pd_rd_wg=R4cMw&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=10M0Z7BB5T4767EQWCMX&psc=1&refRID=10M0Z7BB5T4767EQWCMX

and this which may be just what we need to handle the moisture while we are camping:

https://www.amazon.com/Improved-Eva-dry-500-Renewable-Dehumidifier/dp/B00BD0FN8A/ref=pd_bxgy_3/168-0317434-1077414?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00BD0FN8A&pd_rd_r=602b7678-0a21-40d3-9cf7-0956e5e78ed3&pd_rd_w=nQMaz&pd_rd_wg=61inz&pf_rd_p=ce6c479b-ef53-49a6-845b-bbbf35c28dd3&pf_rd_r=MGK2JSEFMHRXF519MMB6&psc=1&refRID=MGK2JSEFMHRXF519MMB6

 

[Slowride]

I find the FWC mattress just fine and comfortable; if I buy the Hyper Vent it is only a precautionary move to lessen any condensation under the FWC mattress...my forced air heat will drive you out of our Hawk...even at 45-50 degree temp set it can get too hot in the Hawk, remember you sleep high near the ceiling and heat rises...we sleep with at least one and most often two of our roof vents open [no fans] perhaps 2 " even when temps are low, raining or snowing...as stated you need air circulating because we humans exhale a LOT of moisture...when cooking I always open the window above the stove and roof vent, usually with the fan on low..to vent moisture and CO/Co2

You say you are buying a 'shell'...but mention setting the temp...so I assume your shell has the FWC forced air heat, which does not introduce any moisture into the Hawk...we have the 'arctic pack' and it does create dead space of insulation, but condensation between it and the Hypalon sides can be an issue if you don't vent the camper.

FWC makes a quality product and our '16 Hawk has not disappoint in anyway..Enjoy!

Phil

Yes, I'm getting the furnace in my shell, that's about it. Just need basic shelter.

This is good info, thanks for sharing. Some of the temp settings I'm reading about seem kind of low, but if the perceived feeling is that it's to hot that's a good thing. I did opt for an extra vent and both will have the motorized fan if needed so I hope that is enough to vent moisture.

I've spent plenty of cold nights with my topper, waking up through the night with ice in my beard and getting a mediocre nights rest. It's been doable, but the next day by late morning I know my energy is down and I'm just not enjoying my outing as much as i could be.

 

[Wango]

When we built our camper, we skipped the mattress, i purchased two thermarest mondo king xl pads. R value is supposedly near the top for these type of pads.
Wife is small, i am not. No one mattress works for us.
i also put an old closed cell pad under them to help with the really cold nights.
Air out well after each trip, so far so good. Down to -10 or so.
We also use and arctic pack on the sides.
Air flow to fight condensation.

 

[ski3pin]

eyemgh, please forgive me for adding something here as Julie and I do not own a FWC but perhaps a couple tips from our experience will help. For staying warm in the cabover, we use an RV Superbag to sleep in. It is a large double sleeping bag with removable sheets. Julie has made two or three sets of fleece/flannel sheets that are warm, comfortable, and easy to wash. When going below 32 degrees, we fold a small quilt over the toe of the bag and then a qualofill comforter over the top of us. The best spot for a thermorest is on edge right against the lift panel. That's where our toes are.

We have a layer of reflexit under the mattress for help with condensation. Our four inch pad bed has been warm and comfortable.

 

[eyemgh]

eyemgh, please forgive me for adding something here as Julie and I do not own a FWC but perhaps a couple tips from our experience will help. For staying warm in the cabover, we use an RV Superbag to sleep in. It is a large double sleeping bag with removable sheets. Julie has made two or three sets of fleece/flannel sheets that are warm, comfortable, and easy to wash. When going below 32 degrees, we fold a small quilt over the toe of the bag and then a qualofill comforter over the top of us. The best spot for a thermorest is on edge right against the lift panel. That's where our toes are.

We have a layer of reflexit under the mattress for help with condensation. Our four inch pad bed has been warm and comfortable.

Forgive you? I greatly appreciate your advice, regardless of where I post! Thanks! (and Happy Belated Birthday! )

 

[Mthomas]

Used hypervent for a season: helped with condensation and creating an air gap, but not that comfy under the stock pad. Reflectex does not do much without an air gap. Had a thin memory foam pad, pretty cold and hard in the winter. Added in the mid thickness froli system under the stock pads, got rid of the hard and cold and stinky latex foam, added a new down comforter from Costco. Add flannel sheets in the winter. We run the heat up before going to bed and shut it down because it is too noisy. If it gets really cold you can always crank it up. If I was trying to exist in the northern reaches of the country, I would add in a diesel heater and run it all night, which would also eliminate the condensation issues if plumbed correctly. For my needs in the Sierra, we are good.

we sleep east west in our FD Hawk, which exposes both feet and head to the cold sides, but it is easier to get in and out of the bed versus north south like ski3pins do. Have not had an issue down into the teens.

 

[Vic Harder]

Not sure I understand how the diesel heater would eliminate condensation? Both the Atwood (or my Propex) and diesel heaters are vented outside?

 

[craig333]

Should be no different than a vented propane heater.

Keep in mind we're all different. I don't have the condensation issues that others complain about. Why I can't say. You'd think the dog would add a significant amount but I never have to wipe down. Perhaps its the ventilation and leaving the heat set at 50 degrees.

I use a heavy (who cares about weight, we aren't backpacking) sleeping for winter use.

 

[eyemgh]

I ended up buying three of these: https://www.nemoequipment.com/product/switchback/ for under the mattress.

We also put Reflectix over the windows. Lastly, I replaced the thermostat with one that will tell the internal temp. It was set to cycle at a 1 degree interval and I left it there. We spent two sub-20 degree nights out this past week and those changes made an amazing difference.

 

[Wallowa]

Eye,

Can you explain this "..I replaced the thermostat with one that will tell the internal temp. It was set to cycle at a 1 degree interval and I left it there. ".... Our Hawk thermostat registers inside temp, but I don't understand setting to a cycle at 1 degree intervals..

Was that sub 20 degree nights or sub -20 degrees? Glad you folks stayed toasty!

Thanks...Phil

 

[eyemgh]

Eye,

Can you explain this "..I replaced the thermostat with one that will tell the internal temp. It was set to cycle at a 1 degree interval and I left it there. ".... Our Hawk thermostat registers inside temp, but I don't understand setting to a cycle at 1 degree intervals..

Was that sub 20 degree nights or sub -20 degrees? Glad you folks stayed toasty!

Thanks...Phil

OMG...sub 20, NOT sub-minus-20. Gulp!

I did spend several nights this year before the mods though in the same range and they made a BIG difference. I think I could do colder, but the heater would run non-stop and I'd need a better bag. As good as these things are, well insulated would not rise to the top of the list of advantages, even with a thermopack.

Our previous thermostat was completely manual. The only way to set the cycle frequency on the heater was with an internal adjustment not calibrated in degrees, but in some sort of electrical measure that I can't remember. It was really guess and check, and ours was still way off, not firing the heater until I was wondering if I'd run out of propane. The new thermostat kicks in if it drops 1 degree. Some may hate this as they don't like frequent cycling. We personally much prefer that to freezing. We keep it at 56 when sleeping.

 

[larryqp]

I spent a couple of days at 19 degrees at Guadalupe Mt NP in my 2019 Hawk shell with factory furnace. I was alone so the second nite I decided to use the dinette cushions to cover the cab and side window. In the morning there was frost on the glass behind the cushion. So I think the cushion blocked a lot of heat from escaping and I felt warmer. Could have been psychological.

So my plan is to buy a sheet of polyisocyanurate Rigid form which seems to not only have the best R value (6.5 per inch) but also comes with foil facing on both sides. Cut to fit and attach with velcro.

My thought is that I really never open the curtain on the side window, most of which is block by my National Luna chest style refrigerator, the insulation will not only help in cold weather but also block the heat from the sun on the refrigerator in the hot weather. If I want to open the window I can just remove the foam an throw it on the bed.

Same goes for the cab window, I'll remove it when driving but leave it in place when camping, again, I think it benefits both hot and cold weather.

I realize I will need to remove both to allow condensation to escape, but hoping if I make a really tight fit it will minimize condensation.

Does anyone see any negative to this, ie window damage? etc All thoughts appreciated. Thanks

 

[Wallowa]

Larry,

Insulation helps. Yes, the trade off will be condensation. What temp did you set the heater at? Did you notice a difference in "off/on' during the night with the cushions in place? Do you keep a roof vent open?

I plan to "go to school" on your suggestion and indeed will need to wipe up the condensation in the morning. Will investigate the insulating board you referred to. Assume you do not have plumbing containing any water.

Here where I live in NE corner of Oregon it regularly goes well below zero and our home has a lot of windows [double pane] with thermal pleated shades...on cold nights the next morning you will find ice on the inside bottom of the window; so, yes a dead air space will trap cold air and prevent heat escaping to the cold areas.

Eye...a good down bag will go a long ways to staying warm during cold nights. In extremes I have even doubled up and used two bags, not in Hawk but in a tent.

Phil

Ps...Our Hawk has the FWC Thermal Pack...year round.

 

[JaSAn]

My bed is down across the front. I have 3/4" polyiso panels that go over the front and left side windows behind insulated curtains. I can really tel the difference and I haven't seen any downsides except for them not being very durable. Wrapping the edges with tape helps.

 

[eyemgh]

I spent a couple of days at 19 degrees at Guadalupe Mt NP in my 2019 Hawk shell with factory furnace. I was alone so the second nite I decided to use the dinette cushions to cover the cab and side window. In the morning there was frost on the glass behind the cushion. So I think the cushion blocked a lot of heat from escaping and I felt warmer. Could have been psychological.

So my plan is to buy a sheet of polyisocyanurate Rigid form which seems to not only have the best R value (6.5 per inch) but also comes with foil facing on both sides. Cut to fit and attach with velcro.

My thought is that I really never open the curtain on the side window, most of which is block by my National Luna chest style refrigerator, the insulation will not only help in cold weather but also block the heat from the sun on the refrigerator in the hot weather. If I want to open the window I can just remove the foam an throw it on the bed.

Same goes for the cab window, I'll remove it when driving but leave it in place when camping, again, I think it benefits both hot and cold weather.

I realize I will need to remove both to allow condensation to escape, but hoping if I make a really tight fit it will minimize condensation.

Does anyone see any negative to this, ie window damage? etc All thoughts appreciated. Thanks

Larry,

Insulation helps. Yes, the trade off will be condensation. What temp did you set the heater at? Did you notice a difference in "off/on' during the night with the cushions in place? Do you keep a roof vent open?

I plan to "go to school" on your suggestion and indeed will need to wipe up the condensation in the morning. Will investigate the insulating board you referred to. Assume you do not have plumbing containing any water.

Here where I live in NE corner of Oregon it regularly goes well below zero and our home has a lot of windows [double pane] with thermal pleated shades...on cold nights the next morning you will find ice on the inside bottom of the window; so, yes a dead air space will trap cold air and prevent heat escaping to the cold areas.

Eye...a good down bag will go a long ways to staying warm during cold nights. In extremes I have even doubled up and used two bags, not in Hawk but in a tent.

Phil

Ps...Our Hawk has the FWC Thermal Pack...year round.

My bed is down across the front. I have 3/4" polyiso panels that go over the front and left side windows behind insulated curtains. I can really tel the difference and I haven't seen any downsides except for them not being very durable. Wrapping the edges with tape helps.

I ended up choosing Reflectix even after reading all the controversy over its R value, because I didn't want to schlep foam dust shedding sheets around. I simply wanted something that was "good enough."

I'm convinced that some of the hand wringing over Reflectix is misplaced. Even if we assume an R of just over 1, that's really close to 8 inches of concrete. It has SOME conductive insulation right out of the gate. Combine that with the air spaces in the system and it goes up a bit. I linked a real world DIY study that seemed to be reasonably designed on page 2, but will share it again here. My anecdotal evidence was that it worked well enough.

I believe foam panels would be better, but in the parlance of my Dad ("ya gotta be worth the trouble ya cause"), not better enough to deal with storing them and the constant presence of foam. Now were I in the Wallowas (or Wyoming, eyc.), and didn't want the glorified tent experience, meaning I like to be in the camper with my coat off and don't want to rely on a zero degree bag, I think I'd dig in more deeply. Even the best panel though is far less effective if it isn't sealed against the surface and it leaves a giant pathway for drafts.

 

[Wallowa]

Eye,

Your Dad was correct! & Good enough is good enough.

Phil

Ps....Guadalupe Mt NP.... looks very cool!

 

[larryqp]

I'm plenty warm sleeping with a good down bag, its the comfort factor I want, when hanging out or getting up in the middle of the night to pee. I think I'm going to try the foam and wrap the edges with gorilla tape, not very expensive. The side window will stay in place, the cab window sheet will be stored by the side window. Probably won't carry there cab insulation except in winter.

I'm think on only using 1/2" thick, with an R value of a little more than 3, but shouldn't stick out much if I cut it to fit inside the metal window frame.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Wallowa]

I'm plenty warm sleeping with a good down bag, its the comfort factor I want, when hanging out or getting up in the middle of the night to pee. I think I'm going to try the foam and wrap the edges with gorilla tape, not very expensive. The side window will stay in place, the cab window sheet will be stored by the side window. Probably won't carry there cab insulation except in winter.

I'm think on only using 1/2" thick, with an R value of a little more than 3, but shouldn't stick out much if I cut it to fit inside the metal window frame.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Good plan. Get up in middle of night to pee? Yup, like clock work.

What brand of foam board are you folks using? Can you buy it online?

Thanks...Phil