Best Cold Weather Tips

[eyemgh]

I'm plenty warm sleeping with a good down bag, its the comfort factor I want, when hanging out or getting up in the middle of the night to pee. I think I'm going to try the foam and wrap the edges with gorilla tape, not very expensive. The side window will stay in place, the cab window sheet will be stored by the side window. Probably won't carry there cab insulation except in winter.

I'm think on only using 1/2" thick, with an R value of a little more than 3, but shouldn't stick out much if I cut it to fit inside the metal window frame.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Good plan. Get up in middle of night to pee? Yup, like clock work.

What brand of foam board are you folks using? Can you buy it online?

Thanks...Phil

The metal frames of the windows conduct a significant amount energy themselves. In my environment that's not a huge deal, but if I was dealing with really cold weather, I'd be inclined to position the board on top of the frame, overlapping enough to place a foam weather seal all the way around the edge of the foam board. Again, at mid to low 20s, the Reflectix solution worked just fine. I didn't feel the need to dive back into the covers with a stocking cap on after the middle of the night pee.

 

[Mthomas]

Not sure I understand how the diesel heater would eliminate condensation? Both the Atwood (or my Propex) and diesel heaters are vented outside?

Sorry for the late reply: if you plumb the diesel heater to warm outside air and open some vents, you basically vent all the excess moisture out of the camper. The Chinese diesel heaters don’t cycle on and off like the propane systems, they just run faster or slower, but keep running. It seems inefficient, but fuel use is reported as fairly low, about 500 ml a night. The couple that use the name grizzlynbear on there blogging have a video on this on you tube. They post occasionally on the Facebook four wheel camper group as well.
https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/20915-diesel-heater-video/

 

[eyemgh]

Sorry for the late reply: if you plumb the diesel heater to warm outside air and open some vents, you basically vent all the excess moisture out of the camper. The Chinese diesel heaters don’t cycle on and off like the propane systems, they just run faster or slower, but keep running. It seems inefficient, but fuel use is reported as fairly low, about 500 ml a night. The couple that use the name grizzlynbear on there blogging have a video on this on you tube. They post occasionally on the Facebook four wheel camper group as well.

I’ve read a little more about these. Webasto and Espar both make them in gas and diesel. Propex makes an exterior venting low condensation propane/butane version too. All three are well respected and all three have strengths and weaknesses. The international crowd gravitates away from Propex because propane is more challenging to find. I don’t think I’ll swap my factory heater out anytime soon. There’s a great article linked below where they installed BOTH a Webasto and a Propex in their van. From what I’ve read elsewhere the gas/diesel versions run 24h on about a gallon.

https://faroutride.com/webasto-vs-propex/

 

[Mthomas]

The idea of the instal I referenced is that the intake for the heating air is outside. This means you are constantly exhausting air out of the cabin along with the moisture generated by a couple of humans breathing, cooking, and drying off ski gear etc.

The WEBASTO could be plumbed this way as well, but that is not the typical install.

If I did this, I would probably set up some sort of a mixing valve on the recirc side, but that might be complete overthink.

 

[Adventurebound]

We've added a 2" memory foam mattress on top of the FWC cushions, and that helps with heat retention. And I'm not sure there is a supplement for a quality down 0 degree sleeping bag to keep you warm in the camper. Personally, I love a cold fall or winter night with the windows open and being tucked down in my bag.

I would second the memory foam. We camp in cold weather all the time and this does the trick. We never get cold and either turn off or set the thermostat to lowest level. We also just use regular sheets and a comforter. Only downside is you must strip the bed of the pillows and comfort after every use or the top won't go down. Also, we have a king size bed and the topper is a full. We have it turned sideways and use the dinner cushions as a filler for at the pullout portion.

 

[MaverickMTB]

Curious if anyone has found a good way to add insulation to the camper. The aluminum frame is basically conducting hot or cold from the outside to the inside. Would be good to create a thermal break. My last camper was a Hallmark and the wood frame was likely more insulative (before it rotted away and collapsed!). I have a Raven shell on order and plan to do some sound dampening and insulating much like a camper-van builder might. In our Hallmark, I stuffed fiberglass insulation in all of the cabinets and reflectix over all the windows. Lastly, we do a lot of camping here in Colorado. I have the Exped MegaMat mattress that is closed-cell and insulates. They make a double mattress that might just be the all-in-one solution to insulation and comfort in the cab-over.

https://www.rei.com/product/113720/exped-megamat-duo-10-sleeping-pad

 

[eyemgh]

Curious if anyone has found a good way to add insulation to the camper. The aluminum frame is basically conducting hot or cold from the outside to the inside. Would be good to create a thermal break. My last camper was a Hallmark and the wood frame was likely more insulative (before it rotted away and collapsed!). I have a Raven shell on order and plan to do some sound dampening and insulating much like a camper-van builder might. In our Hallmark, I stuffed fiberglass insulation in all of the cabinets and reflectix over all the windows. Lastly, we do a lot of camping here in Colorado. I have the Exped MegaMat mattress that is closed-cell and insulates. They make a double mattress that might just be the all-in-one solution to insulation and comfort in the cab-over.

https://www.rei.com/product/113720/exped-megamat-duo-10-sleeping-pad

We too have a Raven Shell with a factory heater. We put Nemo Switchback mats under the mattress, Reflectix in the windows and changed out the thermostat to one that will go down to 35. It made a big difference. We've done multiple high teens/low 20s nights since with no problem.

At the end of the day, no matter what you do, it'll never be a Bigfoot. The pop-up alone, even with a thermopack is just too leaky.

I'd base ExPed on top vs closed cell pads below on how comfortable you find the mattress.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[SkyP]

I have experience with Espar and Webasto heaters having installed a diesel one in my first Transit and a gasoline one in my second Transit.
I'll soon be selling my second Transit as soon as I get it cleaned out and listed. I'm considering removing the Webasto gasoline heater and adapting it into my 99 Grandby Shell. It currently has a 16K BTU Attwood Hydroflame that I installed.

Putting the Webasto/Espar in it though would be a LOT more trouble than it was in the van.
Both the vans had a fuel tap factory installed on the fuel tanks- that was a big help. I'm pretty sure my new F150 does not have that.

Around 2001 I spent some time in Canada in around -30 temps with the Grandby- the Attwood heater would use a full 20lb tank of LP in about a day- that was a PITA especially when somewhat remote.

 

[rando]

I have been thinking about this, and conceptually is it really any different than opening the roof vent and turning on the fantastic fan? Essentially you are pushing out the heater flow rate of air out of the camper and replacing it with outside air brought in through the heater. For this to work you would need to have a vent of some sort open to allow the air to escape, or maybe the camper is just leaky enough.

When I am cooking inside and producing a lot of moisture in the winter, sometimes I will open the vent with fantastic fan on low, and crack a window. It gets chilly inside pretty quickly, and the heater works hard to keep up. Would it be different with the heater doing about the same thing?

The idea of the instal I referenced is that the intake for the heating air is outside. This means you are constantly exhausting air out of the cabin along with the moisture generated by a couple of humans breathing, cooking, and drying off ski gear etc.

The WEBASTO could be plumbed this way as well, but that is not the typical install.

If I did this, I would probably set up some sort of a mixing valve on the recirc side, but that might be complete overthink.

 

[Wallowa]

I have been thinking about this, and conceptually is it really any different than opening the roof vent and turning on the fantastic fan? Essentially you are pushing out the heater flow rate of air out of the camper and replacing it with outside air brought in through the heater. For this to work you would need to have a vent of some sort open to allow the air to escape, or maybe the camper is just leaky enough.

When I am cooking inside and producing a lot of moisture in the winter, sometimes I will open the vent with fantastic fan on low, and crack a window. It gets chilly inside pretty quickly, and the heater works hard to keep up. Would it be different with the heater doing about the same thing?

Small addendum...any time we turn on a propane burner on the FWC stove, the window above the stove is opened at the top by at least 6" and the Fantastic Fan vent above the stove is opened at least half way; normally the passive flow of the rising heated air will vent, if both burners are on, we turn the fan on low...just for us, any combustion inside the Hawk needs to be vented to the outside and fresh air brought in.... combustion produces CO, CO2 and reduces O2; other that electrical heat, all combustion results in some amount ....not a healthy environment..

But I could be wrong....

Phil

 

[Mthomas]

I have been thinking about this, and conceptually is it really any different than opening the roof vent and turning on the fantastic fan? Essentially you are pushing out the heater flow rate of air out of the camper and replacing it with outside air brought in through the heater. For this to work you would need to have a vent of some sort open to allow the air to escape, or maybe the camper is just leaky enough.

When I am cooking inside and producing a lot of moisture in the winter, sometimes I will open the vent with fantastic fan on low, and crack a window. It gets chilly inside pretty quickly, and the heater works hard to keep up. Would it be different with the heater doing about the same thing?

The difference is zero reciculation of wet air in the referenced instal. Yes, they leave a vent open. conceptually, it should be much better at dumping excess moisture because it is effectively an active dehumidifier, as opposed to a passive system relying on random air mixing at different levels of the cabin. Also, the increased efficiency of a simple diesel heater. The couple who first talked about this swear by it. Go watch their video and read their blog. It is posted above and now in several other threads.

My biggest concern would be venting exhaust under the vehicle in snow country. Seems like every couple years some kid living or overnighting in their vehicle using the engine to stay warm ends up dead of CO poisoning during a big storm in ski areas. I would vent to the side like the standard heating system

 

[Dessmo]

Not sure I understand how the diesel heater would eliminate condensation? Both the Atwood (or my Propex) and diesel heaters are vented outside?

I never have any condensation issues in my Fleet w/diesel heater. I mounted it so it blows fresh air from the outside into the camper, iow it is not recirculating the humid air but pushing it out. Cold air can’t hold much humidity, so the air pushed into the camper is dry.
I am writing this from my FWC, currently -5F outside but nice, dry and cosy inside

 

[Vic Harder]

I never have any condensation issues in my Fleet w/diesel heater. I mounted it so it blows fresh air from the outside into the camper, iow it is not recirculating the humid air but pushing it out. Cold air can’t hold much humidity, so the air pushed into the camper is dry.
I am writing this from my FWC, currently -5F outside but nice, dry and cosy inside

yah, I get this now. Didn't realize the diesel heaters draw fresh air in and heat it vs how the Attwood does it and how I have seen most Propex heaters plumbed. I have re-plumbed my Propex to be the same as a diesel now. Waiting to test this!

 

[rando]

The difference is zero reciculation of wet air in the referenced instal. Yes, they leave a vent open. conceptually, it should be much better at dumping excess moisture because it is effectively an active dehumidifier, as opposed to a passive system relying on random air mixing at different levels of the cabin. Also, the increased efficiency of a simple diesel heater. The couple who first talked about this swear by it. Go watch their video and read their blog. It is posted above and now in several other threads.

My biggest concern would be venting exhaust under the vehicle in snow country. Seems like every couple years some kid living or overnighting in their vehicle using the engine to stay warm ends up dead of CO poisoning during a big storm in ski areas. I would vent to the side like the standard heating system

I guess I was thinking about keeping the vent fan running at an equivalent flow rate as the heater air flow. In each case you are bringing dry air from outside in and pushing an equivalent amount of moist air from inside the camper out. The heater doesn't remove any moisture from the air, so the only difference would be that the heater is preheating the air it brings in, so it would feel warmer. But on the flip side the air blowing out of the heater will be at a lower temperature than if it were drawing from inside the camper. In either case you remove the same amount of moisture from the camper at the expense of needing significantly more fuel to keep it warm.

 

[Mthomas]

yah, I get this now. Didn't realize the diesel heaters draw fresh air in and heat it vs how the Attwood does it and how I have seen most Propex heaters plumbed. I have re-plumbed my Propex to be the same as a diesel now. Waiting to test this!

Looking forward to a report on this

 

[Mthomas]

I guess I was thinking about keeping the vent fan running at an equivalent flow rate as the heater air flow. In each case you are bringing dry air from outside in and pushing an equivalent amount of moist air from inside the camper out. The heater doesn't remove any moisture from the air, so the only difference would be that the heater is preheating the air it brings in, so it would feel warmer. But on the flip side the air blowing out of the heater will be at a lower temperature than if it were drawing from inside the camper. In either case you remove the same amount of moisture from the camper at the expense of needing significantly more fuel to keep it warm.

One difference would be that these little heaters, Chinese ones, run continuously and can have the fan slowed way down, eliminating the need for a high volume of air to be blowing, also requiring fairly low electricity on the fan side, and again very little diesel,fuel,to be burned.

 

[eyemgh]

The difference is zero reciculation of wet air in the referenced instal. Yes, they leave a vent open. conceptually, it should be much better at dumping excess moisture because it is effectively an active dehumidifier, as opposed to a passive system relying on random air mixing at different levels of the cabin. Also, the increased efficiency of a simple diesel heater. The couple who first talked about this swear by it. Go watch their video and read their blog. It is posted above and now in several other threads.

My biggest concern would be venting exhaust under the vehicle in snow country. Seems like every couple years some kid living or overnighting in their vehicle using the engine to stay warm ends up dead of CO poisoning during a big storm in ski areas. I would vent to the side like the standard heating system

My biggest concern beyond that is how finicky they are reported to be. They apparently need to be cleaned yearly and that requires complete removal of the unit.

 

[MaverickMTB]

Anyone have experience with the Truma Combi. I’m thinking this might be a nice all-in-one package for heat and hot water. Supposed to be quiet!

 

[Kolockum]

My biggest concern beyond that is how finicky they are reported to be. They apparently need to be cleaned yearly and that requires complete removal of the unit.

A small aluminum boat that I used to work on had a Webasto diesel heater that never worked and the local repair guy never returned our calls. It sat not working for several years before we replaced the control unit. It started right up despite having old diesel sitting in it for a few years. It definitely needed cleaning but it fired up (well coughed to life). It does take a fair amount of ongoing maintenance (we do it twice a year coinciding with breaks in the season) but we also use it a fair amount.

I want to put one in my next camper but will be sticking with name brands that have a good reputation in the marine world.

 

[Dessmo]

My biggest concern beyond that is how finicky they are reported to be. They apparently need to be cleaned yearly and that requires complete removal of the unit.

If you don’t play with the advanced settings (unless you are an expert understanding what you are doing) and you install correctly they are more or less maintenance free. It’s recommended to run them on full heat to burn them clean before you turn of, but I don’t think that is very important. Taking them apart and clean inside is very easy, takes less than an hour.