If tread life is most important (or high on your list; it is on mine), there are some LT 8/10 ply tires that have 55k mileage warantee's, etc. I think I have General Grabber HTS (or something like that) on my Dakota (with FWC Eagle) and they seem to be holding up well. Not the quietest tires I've had though and not overly aggressive. Had them off-road a few times and they did well though.
BF Goodrich All Terrain KO Tires - a Personal Critique
- Thread starter ski3pin
- Start date
ntsqd
Custom User Title
I was advised by a friend with long history in CTD's not to put BFG's on the truck, many complaints of the driving experience being "greasy" feeling. So after a little consultation I put GY DuraTracs on the truck. Not long after I had an LSD put in the rear axle. Ruben told me that what we'd found was perfect for what I was doing with the truck, that I'd rarely if ever slip a tire and I'd never feel it in a parking lot. Fast forward about 25k and the DT's are not used up, but they're pretty noisy (this over a 6BT!). So replace them, but with what? Same friend suggested Yoko A/T-S II's. Said he'd been getting good service and life from them under his 3rd gen CTD.
They are noticeably quieter than the DT's were when new, and now I feel that LSD in tight turns around parking lots.
I liked them so much that I put a set on my current DD and I'm thinking of putting a set on our soon-to-be 4rnnr tow'd.
According to Yoko's literature this tire has a 50k tread wear warranty, even in the 315/70R17 size under our camper.
They are noticeably quieter than the DT's were when new, and now I feel that LSD in tight turns around parking lots.
I liked them so much that I put a set on my current DD and I'm thinking of putting a set on our soon-to-be 4rnnr tow'd.
According to Yoko's literature this tire has a 50k tread wear warranty, even in the 315/70R17 size under our camper.
Ramblinman
Senior Member
I am liking my Good year Silent Armour/ (Now Adventure AT) Second Set for me. My first priority is NOT to get a flat! This tire supposedly has kevlar in the side wall - maybe this just gives me piece of mind. This tire is pretty good at everything. Somebody mentioned that a good tire means some trade offs. This tire is quiet on the highway of which I do 90% of my driving but keeps me moving off road and lets me stop on snow and ice. I will buy my third set when these ones are milled out.
In Alberta I am always sure to ask people who drive in the oil patch or our Fish and Wildlife Officers what tires they prefer. Get some pretty good experience from these guys. They usually mention GY Adventure AT's, Dura Trac or Toyo's
I am also very pleased with Grabber AT2 which I have on 2 of my Jeeps - quiet and good in the snow - admittedly they are mostly driven in the city.
Thanks Ski for Original Post. Seems as though BFG is losing the loyal following they once had.
Really good write up on some "go to" tires over on EXPO
http://expeditionportal.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road/
Its also important to me to buy my tires from a chain that is available in the area I frequent the most. In my neck of the woods that is Fountain Tire or Kal Tire. They seem to have shops in all the small towns so I can access the warranty if required.
In Alberta I am always sure to ask people who drive in the oil patch or our Fish and Wildlife Officers what tires they prefer. Get some pretty good experience from these guys. They usually mention GY Adventure AT's, Dura Trac or Toyo's
I am also very pleased with Grabber AT2 which I have on 2 of my Jeeps - quiet and good in the snow - admittedly they are mostly driven in the city.
Thanks Ski for Original Post. Seems as though BFG is losing the loyal following they once had.
Really good write up on some "go to" tires over on EXPO
http://expeditionportal.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road/
Its also important to me to buy my tires from a chain that is available in the area I frequent the most. In my neck of the woods that is Fountain Tire or Kal Tire. They seem to have shops in all the small towns so I can access the warranty if required.
I have had the KO's on two vehicles and now have KO2's on my new Tacoma/Fleet. I have been quite happy - in ~50,000 miles including some fairly serious 4wd roads, I have had 1 flat total. Compared to the blizzacks I use in the winter I would only rate them as 'fair' snow tires, but as good or better than most other non specialist snow tires.
longhorn1
Ouch, that stings!
We had Bridgestone Dueler A/T's installed a year ago. "E" rated. We have been very happy with these. We take the truck back into Firestone every 3,000 miles for the free balance and rotation. On the highway I rate them A-, on gravel B+, snow A, mud C-*. They are kept at 80lbs per Firestone.
*first time driving on muddy roads. I ended up going to 4-wheel drive as we were sliding around a bit and that seemed to help. This past trip was our first driving back roads and I was pleased with results even though I'm limited by my lack of experience.
Ski, great topic, and great response from so many in 3 days. jd
Sent from my SM-G900V using Wander The West mobile app
*first time driving on muddy roads. I ended up going to 4-wheel drive as we were sliding around a bit and that seemed to help. This past trip was our first driving back roads and I was pleased with results even though I'm limited by my lack of experience.
Ski, great topic, and great response from so many in 3 days. jd
Sent from my SM-G900V using Wander The West mobile app
Squatch
Senior Member
Interesting review. I've run BFG AT's since before they were called KO's. They have their pros and cons but have always worked well for me. For me I'd rate them more like Ace did vs Ski.
I'm currently doing homework for putting new tires on the Tundra. I'm toying with trying Cooper ST Maxx's or AT3's. I ran the old STT's on my Powerwagon and liked them.
I'm currently doing homework for putting new tires on the Tundra. I'm toying with trying Cooper ST Maxx's or AT3's. I ran the old STT's on my Powerwagon and liked them.
OP
OP
A few thousand on them now. We have used them in all conditions - highway, rain, snow, dirt, 4x4 low dirt and rocks, and fairly extensive use on snow, packed snow, and ice (in mountain terrain, of course) and initial reaction is these are very good tires. I am very pleased with them - especially compared to the previous BFG AT - for winter mountain roads. They grip and are very predictable. For winter I rate them up with the best non studded I've used.cwdtmmrs said:
My real review will come after this set is worn out.
Thank you ski3pin, that is good news. I am about to replace my current set of BFG KO 31/10.5/15 with Coopers, but I was going to go with the S/T Maxx's because of the 3 ply sidewall. Maybe a bit noisier, but gets great reviews as well. Your ATP's only have a 2 ply sidewall, correct? I'M not sure they are available any longer since I do not see them on the Cooper website. I was not at all happy with this particular size BFG on this particular rig.
cwd
cwd
Advmoto18
Senior Member
I owned two sets of the BFG KO on my now sold 2003 F-250. They were great tires. Close to 50K on each set. Just before I sold my '03, I installed Toyo Open Country A/T IIs. What a difference in all aspects of driving, both highway and gravel roads. The Toyo Open Country were even better than the KOs to my surprise.
So when it came time to consider new, larger tires and smaller diameter wheels for my 2016 F-350, I was naturally leaning towards the KO2s on 18" wheels. The new truck came with 20" wheels which look good, but, don't offer a very pleasant ride off road due to much shorter sidewall tires. Naturally, I assumed the KO2s were upgraded versions of the KOs. A fellow WTW member and I started trading info. He had installed the KO2s on his F-350 work truck and they were rapidly wearing out around 15K miles!
That got me to doing more research,, and sure enough, BFG, did something to the KO2 rubber recipe that drastically reduced KO2 life span compared to the previous KO version.
All the while I was looking for tires, I was also looking for a 2.5" leveling kit v a lift kit for my new F-350. One of the better after-market suspension component manufacturer is Sage Carli. Carli Suspension gladly shares a lot of R&D info they develop, including tire information. Most is published on their blog. One of the more interesting things to be discerned from Carli's information, Load E tires, across the size range, perform differently if installed on a 3/4 - 1 ton truck. Heavy trucks, the 3/4 ton and up behave quite differently on tires when loaded vs unloaded compared to the 1/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.
To cut to the chase, Carli found Toyo tires performed better on road and off-road then most all other tires. Also, Toyo offers more information on tire inflation than any other tire manufacturer (light truck tire chart is the gray/white chart, not blue/white). Toyo recognizes light trucks will carry varying weight loads. Further, Toyo recognizes their LT tires are used under varying conditions and therefore offers plenty of information in their tire inflation charts so you get the front and rear tire inflation psi spot on for your axle weight. Not only does this give you the most compliant ride, it will enhance your tires life span. Simply airing up to the cold temp, placarded max tire psi on the tire or door jam is getting you neither the most comfortable ride or max tire life span. Those placards are lawyer placards so you can not sue the tire and truck manufacturers when things go wrong when you deviate from the placarded information.
Tacoma and half ton truck owners can take advantage of the Toyo tire inflation charts as well. It just that the perceivable difference in laden v unladen psi will not likely be as noticeable as on the heavy trucks.
So when it came time to consider new, larger tires and smaller diameter wheels for my 2016 F-350, I was naturally leaning towards the KO2s on 18" wheels. The new truck came with 20" wheels which look good, but, don't offer a very pleasant ride off road due to much shorter sidewall tires. Naturally, I assumed the KO2s were upgraded versions of the KOs. A fellow WTW member and I started trading info. He had installed the KO2s on his F-350 work truck and they were rapidly wearing out around 15K miles!
That got me to doing more research,, and sure enough, BFG, did something to the KO2 rubber recipe that drastically reduced KO2 life span compared to the previous KO version.
All the while I was looking for tires, I was also looking for a 2.5" leveling kit v a lift kit for my new F-350. One of the better after-market suspension component manufacturer is Sage Carli. Carli Suspension gladly shares a lot of R&D info they develop, including tire information. Most is published on their blog. One of the more interesting things to be discerned from Carli's information, Load E tires, across the size range, perform differently if installed on a 3/4 - 1 ton truck. Heavy trucks, the 3/4 ton and up behave quite differently on tires when loaded vs unloaded compared to the 1/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.
To cut to the chase, Carli found Toyo tires performed better on road and off-road then most all other tires. Also, Toyo offers more information on tire inflation than any other tire manufacturer (light truck tire chart is the gray/white chart, not blue/white). Toyo recognizes light trucks will carry varying weight loads. Further, Toyo recognizes their LT tires are used under varying conditions and therefore offers plenty of information in their tire inflation charts so you get the front and rear tire inflation psi spot on for your axle weight. Not only does this give you the most compliant ride, it will enhance your tires life span. Simply airing up to the cold temp, placarded max tire psi on the tire or door jam is getting you neither the most comfortable ride or max tire life span. Those placards are lawyer placards so you can not sue the tire and truck manufacturers when things go wrong when you deviate from the placarded information.
Tacoma and half ton truck owners can take advantage of the Toyo tire inflation charts as well. It just that the perceivable difference in laden v unladen psi will not likely be as noticeable as on the heavy trucks.
craig333
Riley's Human
Running the Open Country M/Ts was a poor choice for my truck. Looked good but didn't ride well and had poor longevity.
Interesting read on Carlis site. Really low tire pressures makes me wonder if those would work if I had a Carli suspension.
Interesting read on Carlis site. Really low tire pressures makes me wonder if those would work if I had a Carli suspension.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
MTs are Toyo's most aggressive tread pattern. Not sure I'd want them on any truck I run on the highway >50% of the time.craig333 said:
Toyo has a 500 mile or 45 day "Trial Offer" on their tires. Don't like them, they will buy them back, including what you paid for mounting/balancing.
Toyos are designed for operating at a psi for your axle weight. Why Toyo offers so much info regarding weight and psi. Inflating to a random or cold temp max psi is not going to provide the best ride, traction or life span.
One of the interesting comments I heard from both Fox and Carli last week when I called their customer service reps, Toyo LT off-road oriented tires offer the best on-road performance IF you weigh your truck and inflate to the corresponding axle weight, not to exceed GVWR.
The Toyo inflation charts are truck generic, not specific to a truck with any after-market vendor suspension parts.
I would not call it "really low tire pressures", but rather, inflating to Toyo's calculated optimum psi based on axle weight.
I obtained my axle weights last week and am now running 55F/45R psi in my Michelins (80 psi is cold temp max) with the Hawk in the bed of my F-350 (11,200 GVWR). I immediately noticed less rear wheel hop from my 20" wheels.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the front leveling kit. Leaning towards a Carli kit based on reviews and their outstanding customer phone support (and I'm not even one of their customers, yet!). But, it will have to be a kit that can easily support the additional weight from a TrailReady base front bumper and Warn 16.5Ti-S winch.
Based on the research of another member, I will likely go with Air Lift air bags (with built in jounce bumper) in the rear. I will definitely be going with the Toyo Open Country tires as soon as I can make a decision on a 17" or 18" wheel.
OP
OP
ski3pin, Yes I learned that after I posted. The ATP is built on the same carcass as the AT/3 with a different tread and are a Discount tire exclusive. The sidewalls for a load range "C" are 2 ply 1000 denier poly. Load rage "E" are 2 ply 1500 denier poly. I am really leaning toward the S/T Maxx for the 3 ply sidewall, 2 plies 1500 denier poly with the 3rd ply 1000 denier poly at and angle for added strength and puncture resistance. Some of the puncture videos are amazing.
Advmoto18, the Toyo's look good and the 45 day trial is inviting, but I don't think the load range "C" tires have a 3ply sidewall either. I am going to call Toyo tomorrow. Ski3pin has a very similar rig to mine and running the same size tire, 31/10.5/15, which only come in a load "C", so his experience is the most pertinent for me and my rig. Maybe when my truck grows ups, it will get some real tires!
cwd
Advmoto18, the Toyo's look good and the 45 day trial is inviting, but I don't think the load range "C" tires have a 3ply sidewall either. I am going to call Toyo tomorrow. Ski3pin has a very similar rig to mine and running the same size tire, 31/10.5/15, which only come in a load "C", so his experience is the most pertinent for me and my rig. Maybe when my truck grows ups, it will get some real tires!
cwd
I would be interested in hearing more about the KO2s. User and magazine reviews generally give the KO2 excellent marks including wear. It's the top On-/Off-Road All-Terrain tire among 17 on Tire Rack's user survey. BFGoodrich (owned by Michelin) claims that the KO2 compared to the KO has 15% longer tread life on asphalt, twice the tread life on gravel, and 20% more sidewall strength. It also features a severe winter rating which is attractive to those of us in snow country. In Oregon they qualify as traction tires. Of course, with tires much depends on the individual application and how well the tires are maintained.Advmoto18 said:
I called Toyo's customer relations today and THEY WOULD NOT give me any information on their tire sidewall construction! The woman said she could not release that information. Couldn't even get the number of plies. Toyo gets the "red pencil" from me.
In my last week of research, I have found that most tire manufacturers do not include any information about number of belts, plies, etc. on their tires. They just tell you how great their products are. Have we become that disinterested as consumers?
cwd
In my last week of research, I have found that most tire manufacturers do not include any information about number of belts, plies, etc. on their tires. They just tell you how great their products are. Have we become that disinterested as consumers?
cwd
Advmoto18
Senior Member
Strange...because per US DOT regulation, the answer to your question is stamped on every tire approved for sale in the US.
My Michelin Load "E" 275/65R20
Note the 2 sidewall plies, but, a Load "E" rating is the equivalent to 10 plies. Rating number and actual number of sidewall plies are completely independent.
My Michelin Load "E" 275/65R20
Note the 2 sidewall plies, but, a Load "E" rating is the equivalent to 10 plies. Rating number and actual number of sidewall plies are completely independent.
The ply rating is compared to cotton plies (from way back in the dark ages):Advmoto18 said:
http://www.sttc.com/resources/tire-info/ply-rating
jim
Advmoto18, I don't want to de-rail this thread more than it already has from sky3pin's original intention, but I know about the information on a tire's sidewall. I was just trying to save some leg time looking at tires. The information isn't readily available on the websites and the customer service dept at Toyo was I stated in the above post. Cooper's customer dept wasn't much better.Crazy. Anyone can buy a tire and cut it apart and analyze the construction.
cwd
cwd
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