BIG changes to FWC's video

Vic Harder said:
Lord of all things Wood.... have you missed the pictures of campers on the east coast that have small AC units in either the side window or the rear window (if equipped). There are some on this site, somewhere. Of course, you have to deal with all that weight hanging out of the window. I would not want to drive on a bumpy road like that.
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Woodn't you know!! I have seen those units out the back or side window but was thinking this roof top unit was small in profile and thinking it was a lighter weight unit... I guess no magic yet on that aspect. I don't know the physics of it but the camper is such a small space I would have thought it could be scaled down... oh well. Honestly I'm happy as a lark with what I have.
 
From the picture, it looks like a Nomadic X2, which currently costs $2645 and is rated at 8188 BTU (ASHRAE) and 720 W. But the X2 weighs 44 lbs, not 75 lbs: either it's not the X2 or FWC is adding something else on the roof.

As we have gotten older, our high temperature comfort limit has dropped to about 85 'F, so I've looked for AC solutions, like the Zero Breeze Mark 2 and the EcoFlow Wave 2. We have 400 W solar and 280 Ah lithium - but that is not going to be enough power for any reasonable amount of DC cooling. The more cooling you need, the greater the power draw. That means shore power and staying in state parks (most OR and WA parks have A/C) or RV parks. Not ideal, but we could spend a lot more time east of the Cascades in the summer.

With A/C power, the trade off is a very expensive heavy rooftop AC but no loss of space, or a portable AC that is much cheaper ($300 - $400) but takes up at least 13" x 13" x 27", and also has two hoses leading to a window. You want a two hose portable AC. A one hose AC exhausts air out the hose and hot and humid replacement air is sucked into the camper. We are planning to try a portable AC this summer and see if the three of us (me, wife and AC) can still move around in a Fleet front dinette. I have a fixture for the window for the hoses - it slips in between the screen and the window cover on the bottom and has Velcro (riveted to the unit) on the other three edges..
AC Adapter.jpg

In a perfect world, we would have a split system, with the insideheat exchanger and a fan on the roof and the compressor and outside heat exchanger mounted on the back of the camper.
 
Speaking of split.... Mini-splits. Could one have a combo heater/cooler? Just wagging the chin here. We have a mini split in our home and it is terrific. Not sure DC could do the job.
 
I think two 135ah batteries would run ac long enough for me. Mostly I just want to cool the camper down before bed. Definitely not enough if I were visiting the South. Someone that spent most of their time in campgrounds with power would probably get their moneys worth.
 
craig333 said:
I think two 135ah batteries would run ac long enough for me. Mostly I just want to cool the camper down before bed. Definitely not enough if I were visiting the South. Someone that spent most of their time in campgrounds with power would probably get their moneys worth.
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Seems that unit draws 55A max, which is how it would be running in attempt to cool down a hot camper. 2x 135AH Lithium = 250AH usable, or so. Is 4 hours of draw (assuming nothing else needs power... doh) enough?
 
Not wanting to be the floater in the punch bowl....but $52K ! Not even fully kitted I would assume....then 3/4 trucks only?....then add a large air conditioner to roof; displace any chance of an second solar panel, add a lot of weight on top of roof and worst of all, I could not get it inside my shop with the normal door height [my '16 Hawk / '05 Tundra gives me 3/4 " clearance through the shop door]...the internal framed lifting system looks like a Rube Goldberg erector set; and sleeping next to it is a non-starter for the inside person...even standalone roof assist system adds yet more weight to roof...outside side lifting units nicely visible in window when up and look just "add on"....good grief. Also guess forward roof vent is lost to AC.

Vic's calculations.....power draw is enormous with AC....even with Li...I do love BB 100 ah in our Hawk, but with two solar panels on top....second solar panel a lot less weight than an AC! Add DC/DC and no lack of power for our setup. Guess AC mostly for folks in RV parks with 110v; off grid you would need a second roof solar panel, or so it would seem.

Stove is bigger surface? Really, doubt that... and our space heater works just great as does our water heater [full up to temp water heater dumped into main tank helps if near line freezing temps]....so no, I see more marketing and less functional add on's.

Good point? Victron devices = #1. FWC finally got that message...

Second Good Point? Perhaps new AC unit will help with oil canning... :cool: Oh, but that problem does not exist...right?

Hey, you can put lip stick on a pig but it is still............................... :rolleyes:

Sorry FWC but greatly disappointed with these changes [except Victron]; notwithstanding that soon only the wealthy will buy FWCs.
 
Looks liker FWC is stepping up on these changes. Talked to my Salesman today and they are allowing me to change my order as it hasn't started yet. Waiting to see the change order...
 
With regards to the air conditioner, I'd much rather have a small window unit, mounted to the back wall of the camper. A typical 5,000 BTU unit draws 450 watts, weighs in at about 35 lbs, is about 16 inches wide, 12 inches high and 15 inches deep. I'll assume that you'll want to be tethered to shore power when using the beast.
 
Wallowa said:
Not wanting to be the floater in the punch bowl....but $52K ! Not even fully kitted I would assume....then 3/4 trucks only?....then add a large air conditioner to roof; displace any chance of an second solar panel, add a lot of weight on top of roof and worst of all, I could not get it inside my shop with the normal door height [my '16 Hawk / '05 Tundra gives me 3/4 " clearance through the shop door]...the internal framed lifting system looks like a Rube Goldberg erector set; and sleeping next to it is a non-starter for the inside person...even standalone roof assist system adds yet more weight to roof...outside side lifting units nicely visible in window when up and look just "add on"....good grief. Also guess forward roof vent is lost to AC.

Vic's calculations.....power draw is enormous with AC....even with Li...I do love BB 100 ah in our Hawk, but with two solar panels on top....second solar panel a lot less weight than an AC! Add DC/DC and no lack of power for our setup. Guess AC mostly for folks in RV parks with 110v; off grid you would need a second roof solar panel, or so it would seem.

Stove is bigger surface? Really, doubt that... and our space heater works just great as does our water heater [full up to temp water heater dumped into main tank helps if near line freezing temps]....so no, I see more marketing and less functional add on's.

Good point? Victron devices = #1. FWC finally got that message...

Second Good Point? Perhaps new AC unit will help with oil canning... :cool: Oh, but that problem does not exist...right?

Hey, you can put lip stick on a pig but it is still............................... :rolleyes:

Sorry FWC but greatly disappointed with these changes [except Victron]; notwithstanding that soon only the wealthy will buy FWCs.
Click to expand...
I agree with all your observations.

As a side note, we have never plugged into shore power in the almost 5 years we have had our FWC Hawk. So the notion of an AC is absurd for our purposes - though we do camp in hot deserts and such fairly often.

If the Victron lithium would have been available we would likely have sprung for it. But I am not anxious at all about electrical power in the camper. We just use everything as we want (fridge, furnace, led lights, usb chargers) and never had a problem with power.
 
I think it would work for me but no way could I justify the price. I think FWC felt the pressure to compete with OEV and others. Many have complained they are behind the times. Its a tough situation. Everyone complains about the cost but they also want all the amenities. Catch 22 for these companies.
 
These campers are getting expensive especially if you need at least a 3/4 ton truck for them
 
I wonder if the cab over storage has insulation to prevent it from sweating. I wouldn't want to store my clothes there if that is a issue.
 
I'm sure that all the new offerings are extra above the base price. One could still get a camper without all those bells. If they were standard I would ask questions if this was right for me or look at other options out there.
 
pvstoy said:
I'm sure that all the new offerings are extra above the base price. One could still get a camper without all those bells. If they were standard I would ask questions if this was right for me or look at other options out there.
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I think the only changes that are non optional, at least for a Hawk, are the switch to a lithium battery and its charger and flush mount sink and stove. If one does option a heater, it's the new one. The base weight increased 100 lbs.
 
Vic Harder said:
Indeed .. the word „retrofittable“ caught my eye…
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If anyone does retrofit their water heater, do get the 12VDC cold weather filter element that keeps the Truma itself from freezing when traveling with propane off, and when camped with propane on.
 
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