Jon R
Senior Member
The combustion products are exhausted outside with both heater types, so how is diesel heat more “dry?”
Buyers regret?
- Thread starter idahoron
- Start date
Close to 25,000 miles on the camper and have had no furnace issues except: 1) did not tighten the propane hose fitting tight enough and no propane made it to the furnace. Easily fixed by tightening the fitting. and 2) installed a new more sensitive honeywell thermostat and the furnace would not turn on until my wife noticed that the switch on the side of the new thermostat was set to 'off'. User error on both.
ST85 said:
I had issues with the furnace as well. I just completed a Planar diesel heater swap on my flatbed recently since I got tired of the issues with the propane furnace. Both heaters pull combustion air and exhaust the products of combustion outside, so the difference in condensation would be minimal. If you are using a catalytic heater propane heater, it will of course generate more condensation. But the propane furnace installed from FWC will not generate any more or less condensation than the diesel heater will.
Depending on the how the diesel heater is installed, it could make the air more "dry" For instance, if you pull the air that flows over the heat exchanger from the exterior, it will "dry" the air, and renew the air in the camper. But it uses more fuel and power. If you pull the air that flows over the heat exchanger from inside the camper, and recycle it, it will use less fuel and power, but it will not be able "dry" the air as well.
I have mine set up so it pulls the air for the heat exchanger (not combustion process) from the outside of the camper. (the air for combustion obviously comes from outside air as well)
The heater takes a little longer to heat, but if it is "dryer" its minimal. There is a lot of misconceptions on the amount of condensation generated by a vented propane heater, and a vented diesel heater. To be honest, you breathing in the camper will generate more condensation, and the fact you have a cold side and a warm side, so you will get condensation there pretty much no matter what.
Best way to deal with condensation, is to open a window or crack a vent, giving the warm moist air you exhale somewhere to go. I always crack the vent above the bed and inch or so, no matter the temp outside.
Side dinette, at least one powered fan, furnace.
I purchased a used, well optioned 2003 Hawk around 2010. It had the rollover couch. I converted it to a side dinette. If I was to purchase one new I would definitely choose the side or front dinette. I'm 6' 1" and I would still purchase the dinette rather than the rollover couch. I put my legs out in the open area when I need to stretch out. The rollover couch was a poor design in my opinion. It partially blocked the doorway in the Hawk and was just not very practical. The same wood material from the original configuration was cut down and used to fabricate the side dinette. A Lagun bracket was installed with the original table top. I had the cushions cut down by a local upholstery shop and fabricated the rest in a way that still allows the use of the dinette area for stealth camping. The area closest to the door holds a port-a-potty. I also added a fantastic fan in one of the two manual vent locations as the wiring was already installed. The original wiring that went to the light outside the rear door was used to wire an led flood/spot light to the on-off switch that originally controlled the 12V accessory plug (which was also using the same wiring as the outside light. The 12V accessory plug is now "always hot". Some other changes include adding lift supports to the roof and converting the florescent lighting to LED. All the changes have made the camper much more functional. It has a furnace, 3 way refrigerator, and 2 burner stove. I use the stove for stews, coffee, and such but anything fried is prepared outside on a different stove. also carry a propane bbq. I've spent many nights in sub-zero weather. I turn off the furnace at night and use extra down insulating blankets. The camper does not have the optional insulation pack. The thermostat is within reach of the bed so I roll over in the morning to light the stove for coffee, turn on the furnace, and stay in bed until it is warm. Frost does form inside the camper but I just wipe it as necessary with a towel as it thaws. I camp in the intermountain west where winter humidity is not an issue. From Jasper and Banff in Canada to the southern tip of Baja at Cabo it has been a great camper.
I purchased a used, well optioned 2003 Hawk around 2010. It had the rollover couch. I converted it to a side dinette. If I was to purchase one new I would definitely choose the side or front dinette. I'm 6' 1" and I would still purchase the dinette rather than the rollover couch. I put my legs out in the open area when I need to stretch out. The rollover couch was a poor design in my opinion. It partially blocked the doorway in the Hawk and was just not very practical. The same wood material from the original configuration was cut down and used to fabricate the side dinette. A Lagun bracket was installed with the original table top. I had the cushions cut down by a local upholstery shop and fabricated the rest in a way that still allows the use of the dinette area for stealth camping. The area closest to the door holds a port-a-potty. I also added a fantastic fan in one of the two manual vent locations as the wiring was already installed. The original wiring that went to the light outside the rear door was used to wire an led flood/spot light to the on-off switch that originally controlled the 12V accessory plug (which was also using the same wiring as the outside light. The 12V accessory plug is now "always hot". Some other changes include adding lift supports to the roof and converting the florescent lighting to LED. All the changes have made the camper much more functional. It has a furnace, 3 way refrigerator, and 2 burner stove. I use the stove for stews, coffee, and such but anything fried is prepared outside on a different stove. also carry a propane bbq. I've spent many nights in sub-zero weather. I turn off the furnace at night and use extra down insulating blankets. The camper does not have the optional insulation pack. The thermostat is within reach of the bed so I roll over in the morning to light the stove for coffee, turn on the furnace, and stay in bed until it is warm. Frost does form inside the camper but I just wipe it as necessary with a towel as it thaws. I camp in the intermountain west where winter humidity is not an issue. From Jasper and Banff in Canada to the southern tip of Baja at Cabo it has been a great camper.
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UmkaAndHawk
Advanced Member
Everyone has different preferences, so it's no surprise that, despite the wide range of equipment, people are both happy or regretful about any of it.
For perspective, we're former (and still occasional) backpackers, so a hawk shell was a huge upgrade for us.
Our Hawk now has: a seat where the front dinette is in some layouts, with a cooler and fresh water tank underneath it. We use cushions from the bed on this bench seat. We've added a counter with sink and foot pump, gray water under the sink, food and kitchen supplies under the counter. We have a stove in the cabinet above the furnace. The furnace has a garage thermostat. We have a plain vent over the queen size bed and a maxxair over the galley. We've added an extra battery, an AC-DC charger ("shore power"?) We ran some warm white LED USB fairy lights around the inside roof perimeter with some velcro because the standard lights are just so...gray.
It's so perfect for us, we spend time on nearly every trip congratulating ourselves. Here's what we like:
* our design has so much more room than the built-out FWCs. We've even had other folks look inside and be amazed and jealous of the space.
* I know folks need a fridge, but we have been just amazed at how long things stay cold (enough for us) in the rotomolded cooler from Costco
* hot water would make things easier to clean, including ourselves, but there's so much infrastructure and maintenance involved in getting it
* the garage thermostat is a brilliant upgrade...keeps things from freezing (silicone plumbing for our water freezes pretty easily) while not disturbing us.
* we thought we'd need to extend the bed so we could sleep north-south. Meh, climbing over each other is just fine--have I mentioned we camp in a tent...?
* the furnace is a must-have...I mean, otherwise, couldn't we keep camping in the tent?
* the basic two burner Eureka stove means we can take it outside to cook (using the extra 10pound propane) or cook inside with a 1 pounder during bad weather. (I had thought of making a t-junction for propane...just hasn't been worth it...!) Having a stove built-inside seems really inconvenient to us!
* sliding out the cooler is about the only annoying thing of this the fridge setup, but it also makes a nice ottoman and iPad-netflix stand.
* we don't have an awning--because often where we park, there's a more beautiful spot just a few feet away from the truck and if there's too much sun, we set up a cover there.
* we don't have steps, lights, or much of anything on the outside. We're either in the camper or a bit away at some even prettier spot. Hanging out next to our vehicle isn't really all that appealing (although, we do sometimes, of course...space and weather dependent.)
* we did make a tarp cover for our door during inclement outdoor cooking and keeping things near the door dryer. Should have seen all the engineering that went into this, until we realized that a simple tarp stretched over the top with some line to the jack brackets was all we needed...
* added a compressor to the truck to air-down...used it once so far.
* foldable escape tracks, which we fortunately haven't used, but they make great leveling blocks.
* solar suitcase, but even that we have found was over kill with an extra battery...but all we charge is phones, an iPad, and the furnace is the big draw. So far two nights, pretty easy.
* didn't lift the truck (but did add bigger, e-rated, all terrains) and, given that it has sway bars, which are absolutely great for the extra weight on road--the camper is barely noticeable on a 2019 Tundra 4x4--I suspect they suck when we go on rough roads. If it weren't so damn expensive we might well get around to make it more off-road capable/comfortable (we've also dented the practically foil skid plate) but if we're honest, we're already going on as rough a road as we're likely to ever go on, so even that's not necessary.
Well, for those on the backpacker -> camper end of the spectrum, I hope this is helpful! Thanks to all!
For perspective, we're former (and still occasional) backpackers, so a hawk shell was a huge upgrade for us.
Our Hawk now has: a seat where the front dinette is in some layouts, with a cooler and fresh water tank underneath it. We use cushions from the bed on this bench seat. We've added a counter with sink and foot pump, gray water under the sink, food and kitchen supplies under the counter. We have a stove in the cabinet above the furnace. The furnace has a garage thermostat. We have a plain vent over the queen size bed and a maxxair over the galley. We've added an extra battery, an AC-DC charger ("shore power"?) We ran some warm white LED USB fairy lights around the inside roof perimeter with some velcro because the standard lights are just so...gray.
It's so perfect for us, we spend time on nearly every trip congratulating ourselves. Here's what we like:
* our design has so much more room than the built-out FWCs. We've even had other folks look inside and be amazed and jealous of the space.
* I know folks need a fridge, but we have been just amazed at how long things stay cold (enough for us) in the rotomolded cooler from Costco
* hot water would make things easier to clean, including ourselves, but there's so much infrastructure and maintenance involved in getting it
* the garage thermostat is a brilliant upgrade...keeps things from freezing (silicone plumbing for our water freezes pretty easily) while not disturbing us.
* we thought we'd need to extend the bed so we could sleep north-south. Meh, climbing over each other is just fine--have I mentioned we camp in a tent...?
* the furnace is a must-have...I mean, otherwise, couldn't we keep camping in the tent?
* the basic two burner Eureka stove means we can take it outside to cook (using the extra 10pound propane) or cook inside with a 1 pounder during bad weather. (I had thought of making a t-junction for propane...just hasn't been worth it...!) Having a stove built-inside seems really inconvenient to us!
* sliding out the cooler is about the only annoying thing of this the fridge setup, but it also makes a nice ottoman and iPad-netflix stand.
* we don't have an awning--because often where we park, there's a more beautiful spot just a few feet away from the truck and if there's too much sun, we set up a cover there.
* we don't have steps, lights, or much of anything on the outside. We're either in the camper or a bit away at some even prettier spot. Hanging out next to our vehicle isn't really all that appealing (although, we do sometimes, of course...space and weather dependent.)
* we did make a tarp cover for our door during inclement outdoor cooking and keeping things near the door dryer. Should have seen all the engineering that went into this, until we realized that a simple tarp stretched over the top with some line to the jack brackets was all we needed...
* added a compressor to the truck to air-down...used it once so far.
* foldable escape tracks, which we fortunately haven't used, but they make great leveling blocks.
* solar suitcase, but even that we have found was over kill with an extra battery...but all we charge is phones, an iPad, and the furnace is the big draw. So far two nights, pretty easy.
* didn't lift the truck (but did add bigger, e-rated, all terrains) and, given that it has sway bars, which are absolutely great for the extra weight on road--the camper is barely noticeable on a 2019 Tundra 4x4--I suspect they suck when we go on rough roads. If it weren't so damn expensive we might well get around to make it more off-road capable/comfortable (we've also dented the practically foil skid plate) but if we're honest, we're already going on as rough a road as we're likely to ever go on, so even that's not necessary.
Well, for those on the backpacker -> camper end of the spectrum, I hope this is helpful! Thanks to all!
BBZ
Senior Member
well said..UmkaAndHawk said:
We went with a 2013 Grandby Shell with a furnace so that we would have as much open space as possible (we have 2 dogs).. This is our 3rd FWC and both older ones were shells also rebuilt by us.. A 82 fleet 7.5 and a grandby.. we really wanted the furnace and the extend overhand bed area which wasn't an option on the older ones.
Like yours, people are shocked by how open feeling ours is. We build a bench seat up front and a removal table, easily sits 5-6 people.. (we camp with the sprinter folks and they have zero room). Our bed is a slide out King which we love being able to sleep north/south..
We also installed a 2 burner flush mount gas cooktop and while we cook outside most of the time, its nice to have the option when its, cold, windy, rainy etc... super simple install and being flush mount doesn't take up any more room..
ri-f
Senior Member
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