Buying Trailer To Tow Behind Tundra/Hawk; Request Input

WA

Wallowa

Double Ought
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,194
Location
NE Oregon
Hey...well since my Sea kayaks [17'] have been sitting in my shop since I put my '16 Hawk onto my '05 Tundra I have evolved to the decision to buy a trailer to tow behind the Tundra.

Objective is to tow the lightest but off road /hwy safe trailer that can carry my two kayaks, WR250R off road MC and perhaps a canoe. Only using the trailer when a specific trip will involve parking for an extended period where we can paddle or I can ride the MC off road.

I have settled on an aluminum flat bed trailer manufactured in Canada. Plan to add Yakima saddles to a set of bars for kayak and put the MC between them. Trailer is 400 lbs @ 3K GVW or less if I drop to a 2K GVW, bed is 5 x 10 feet, 15 inch wheels and a 5 foot tongue. Projected max load that I will carry is 700 lbs.

Trailers are new ground for me, as is buying and importing from Canada:

#1 What are the consequences of going from stock 4 foot tongue to 5 foot tongue [will give clearance for kayaks when turning]? Affect on tracking, stability or backing up?

#2 Looking at US Customs regs for importing a trailer was a nightmare. Confusing to say the very least. Any advice and details on what is involved in entering US with new trailer bought in Canada?

Good news is that Oregon does not require licensing.

Any insights or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...Phil
 
Soooo.....weird thought..... how far is the border? Got a buddy with a trailer? Could you cross the border with buddy towing the trailer with his truck, then switch it to your truck and come back across? I'm not saying do anything shady, just see. Then if it works out go back and pick up the new trailer and deal with taxes and customs after.
 
Our TrailBlazer off-road tent trailer is set up with an extendable tongue. When the new UHD frame was built for it this seemed like a good idea. I don't know if my friend who had it built ever used it, we never have. It is pretty common to see "Overland" trailer tongues built this way. Most set up the "short" length so that they can jack-knife to 90° w/o contact.

My grandfather's RoT for tongue length is that the unladen tongue be 1/3 to 1/2 the trailer's wheelbase. That is tow connector (ball, off-road coupler, pintle) to axle centerline if a single axle trailer. I've designed a trailer using this RoT and have one of his built this way and they both tow very nice and are easy to back-up. A long WB TR will work you no matter what, have to stay ahead of it when backing up, but it's not like they whip around and jack-knife as soon as they 'crack'.

So, all of this being said, I think adding a foot to the tongue length will likely go in your favor rather than against you.
 
Soooo.....weird thought..... how far is the border? Got a buddy with a trailer? Could you cross the border with buddy towing the trailer with his truck, then switch it to your truck and come back across? I'm not saying do anything shady, just see. Then if it works out go back and pick up the new trailer and deal with taxes and customs after.


============================================================================

I just got back from three weeks in BC in the Tundra/Hawk....and trust me you do not want to even think about playing games at the border.....no, playing by their rules is the only way....but I think you are joking anyway :cool:
 
ntsqd said:
Our TrailBlazer off-road tent trailer is set up with an extendable tongue. When the new UHD frame was built for it this seemed like a good idea. I don't know if my friend who had it built ever used it, we never have. It is pretty common to see "Overland" trailer tongues built this way. Most set up the "short" length so that they can jack-knife to 90° w/o contact.

My grandfather's RoT for tongue length is that the unladen tongue be 1/3 to 1/2 the trailer's wheelbase. That is tow connector (ball, off-road coupler, pintle) to axle centerline if a single axle trailer. I've designed a trailer using this RoT and have one of his built this way and they both tow very nice and are easy to back-up. A long WB TR will work you no matter what, have to stay ahead of it when backing up, but it's not like they whip around and jack-knife as soon as they 'crack'.

So, all of this being said, I think adding a foot to the tongue length will likely go in your favor rather than against you.
Click to expand...

Thanks..appreciate the advice...will go with 5'..

Phil
 
Are you sure you can import one privately ? I looked at bringing one in the other direction - not permitted if I undetstood correctly.correctly. I'd be suprised if Can was more protective than US. (Not meant to offend). Often the targeting of specific goods is recipricated - or worse...
 
klahanie said:
Are you sure you can import one privately ? I looked at bringing one in the other direction - not permitted if I undetstood correctly.correctly. I'd be suprised if Can was more protective than US. (Not meant to offend). Often the targeting of specific goods is recipricated - or worse...
Click to expand...
Well reading this makes it sound simple....but the website details are confusing.. yes, I can buy products in Canada and take them back across the border...the question is will it cost me $$$ and what exactly are the hoops I need to jump through..

Motorized vehicles are an entirely different matter than trailers...

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/415/~/permanently-importing-a-trailer-into-the-u.s.


Phil
 
In the event your kayak use does not require daily loading and unloading: I have carried two 17' long Pygmy wooden kayaks, each weighing about 40 lbs, on the top of our FWC Keystone Camper on the Yakima racks from Washington State to California with no issues. It takes a bit to load them and unload them but they slide on and off just fine. I would not want to take them on and off daily however. I used the On-Stage crank up speaker stand to raise and lower the roof with the Kayaks in place with no issues.

I have Yakima racks on my bed cap too so when the camper is off I can still transport the kayaks.

Trailers are a hassle in California due to the speed limit of 55 MPH for any vehicle towing a trailer.


P.S. I know there are Cal;ifornia haters out there so let me just say in advance that we love the climate on the Central Coast of California in Solvang. I have been here 40 years and have not found a better place to live yet. So we have decided put up with some of the hassle (although I try not to tow a trailer). ;-)
 
Pretty rare to see someone actually following that law while towing. When I do see it they usually have out of state plates. Most towing that I've encountered are moving along in the 60-65 range. Which is a good thing, going 55 would make them a hazard to themselves and to others. This dinosaur law left over from the national 55 limit really needs to go away or be adjusted up, but I don't expect to see our current elitist leaders doing anything about it. If they do, it will be to allow electric vehicles only to go faster while towing.
 
ckent323 said:
In the event your kayak use does not require daily loading and unloading: I have carried two 17' long Pygmy wooden kayaks, each weighing about 40 lbs, on the top of our FWC Keystone Camper on the Yakima racks from Washington State to California with no issues. It takes a bit to load them and unload them but they slide on and off just fine. I would not want to take them on and off daily however. I used the On-Stage crank up speaker stand to raise and lower the roof with the Kayaks in place with no issues.

I have Yakima racks on my bed cap too so when the camper is off I can still transport the kayaks.

Trailers are a hassle in California due to the speed limit of 55 MPH for any vehicle towing a trailer.


P.S. I know there are Cal;ifornia haters out there so let me just say in advance that we love the climate on the Central Coast of California in Solvang. I have been here 40 years and have not found a better place to live yet. So we have decided put up with some of the hassle (although I try not to tow a trailer). ;-)
Click to expand...

With all due respect....loading and unloading two 70lb sea Kayaks from the roof of the Hawk when we stop to set up is not an option; nor is covering the solar panel on the roof and off road the CG is negatively affected by having 140 lbs on top..

As to 55 mph...well, that is also a non-issue...I find that 55-60mph is a more relaxed pace and arriving a few minutes early is not my objective...

I appreciate the input but what I really need now is a first hand experience from someone that has bought a trailer in Canada and brought it back into the USA......before I plunk down my credit card for a trailer, I must know if and how I can get it back to Oregon.

Thanks...Phil
 
Wallowa said:
Well reading this makes it sound simple....but the website details are confusing.. yes, I can buy products in Canada and take them back across the border...the question is will it cost me $$$ and what exactly are the hoops I need to jump through..

Motorized vehicles are an entirely different matter than trailers...

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/415/~/permanently-importing-a-trailer-into-the-u.s.


Phil
Click to expand...
Phil-

Looks like a key element in that document you posted is whether or not the trailer has a certification label stating that the trailer meets US safety standards. If it doesn't you'll have to go with a registered importer and that importer may be able to answer your questions (and you'll pay them to go through the certification process).

If it DOES have a certification label, that suggests the seller has worked through the process and should be able to answer your questions. In any case, I'd ask the seller about it (if you've not already done so) as they also have an interest in making the sale happen.

Also- is there something special about that trailer that's not available in the US? That trailer manufacturing business has lots of players and what comes to mind is elmo_4_vt's Montrose trailer. That took me to the Montrose Trailers web site where I see lots of options and nationwide shipping. And I'd guess there's somebody closer to you that does similar work.

.
 
Old Crow said:
Phil-

Looks like a key element in that document you posted is whether or not the trailer has a certification label stating that the trailer meets US safety standards. If it doesn't you'll have to go with a registered importer and that importer may be able to answer your questions (and you'll pay them to go through the certification process).

If it DOES have a certification label, that suggests the seller has worked through the process and should be able to answer your questions. In any case, I'd ask the seller about it (if you've not already done so) as they also have an interest in making the sale happen.

Also- is there something special about that trailer that's not available in the US? That trailer manufacturing business has lots of players and what comes to mind is elmo_4_vt's Montrose trailer. That took me to the Montrose Trailers web site where I see lots of options and nationwide shipping. And I'd guess there's somebody closer to you that does similar work.

.
Click to expand...

Good advice and insights....will look at Montrose Trailers but the trailer manufacturer in Canada makes custom trailers to my specs and does it very well..400 lbs or less weight and -26% from US/Canada exchange rate also helps...

I just got off phone with US Customs at port of entry that I will be using...key was new trailer for my personal use makes is simpler...

Needed to cross border/import the trailer: A sticker or letter from manufacturer stating that the trailer meets US safety standards, bill of sale and temporary veh registration issued by manufacturer...that is it.

Phil

PS...Just called Montrose Trailers..unfortunately they are in Michigan and cost of shipping would exceed cost of trailer....and no, I am not up for a road trip across the Plains...
 
I agree with "The Researcher"....looks like the real issue is that you need to see whether or not they have a US DOT certification. If not, use of an importer would be best/only way to go. Also, there is no mention of the cost to get the US DOT certification once you have it here. I've been through the process of importing both to Canada from the US and from China to the US.....they are the way to go, but will possibly be cost prohibitive with a one off type deal. Paperwork can be either super easy or super difficult, and there seems to be no in between. You may be able to contact a local importer for a free consultation, I personally would look into my circle of friends to see if I have any contacts that could talk to me as a friend.

The money spent on an importer could be used locally to support a local welder/fabricator to customize the trailer for you. I've found that most local fabricators near me (Ohio) are much more reasonable in their pricing than what I would have budgeted in my head with projects.
 
What is the manufacturer you are looking at? After looking at the forms, there is no duty to import the trailer. You would probably be on the hook for state taxes though. Trailers fall under section 8716 and as long as you are importing only 1, there is no tariff. If importing 2 or more, they are taxed at 45%.

It looks like utilizing box 2b on the declaration paperwork would be the way to go. As it is a trailer, the only thing that would be necessary would be proper lighting, and as long as it conforms to Canadian law, it would conform to US(Standard 108). Standard 110 (proper wheel and tire load) should not be a problem as that is universal from the manufacturer. You would need a copy of the manufacturer's confirmation letter for this.

An importer would not be required for the declaration page as you would not be utilizing box 3.

It doesn't look as daunting as initial thought....

HS-7 temporary import paperwork
CBP Form 7501 from Customs and Border for registration (which you will not use as OR does not register trailers)
HS799 short for Declaration with box 2b checked and manufacturer's confirmation letter of conforming to Canadian standards
 
corybrown50 said:
What is the manufacturer you are looking at? After looking at the forms, there is no duty to import the trailer. You would probably be on the hook for state taxes though. Trailers fall under section 8716 and as long as you are importing only 1, there is no tariff. If importing 2 or more, they are taxed at 45%.
Click to expand...

Thanks...only one trailer and manufacturer is Custom Express Trailers, Parksville, BC....just talked to them and they seem to have everything covered..bill of sale, VIN with safety std statement, export statement...BUT there isn't any registration, even temporary, that I can show Customs....registration not required in Oregon...picking up trailer in Delta, BC and short drive to border at Blaine...Custom officer said due to NAFTA there are no taxes/fees.

Hope to hell the lack of a registration/paper plate does not stop me at border...trailer I want is in stock so I will tentatively be picking it up on 6-12....

Hey, life is a crap shoot....490 miles to Delta...so another road trip with Tundra/Hawk, just not my usual off road style!

Phil

Ps...Forgot...no state of Oregon tax...no sales tax in Oregon...BUT, ready for this, a stupid "Privilege Tax" on registered vehicles of .5%, NA for my trailer...our state is going sideways like Kalifornica..

https://www.oregon.gov/DOR/programs/businesses/Documents/publication-or-v-tax_612-005.pdf
 
In a 100 mile trip on the freeway with no stops on the way, at 65 MPH it takes about 1.45 hours (slightly less than 1 hr 30 min). If you slow down to 55 MPH, it takes about 1.8 hours ( about 1 hr. 50 min.). OK, that's 20 minutes difference, but you can factor in the MILEAGE you will increase by SLOWING down and of course, the effect that a flat on the trailer might have with ten miles an hour difference....not to mention the time wasted getting the speeding ticket (most CHPs don't stop you for 5 miles over but 7 miles over is the limit I would go if traffic was moving along fast enough). The cost of that ticket is another factor.

Of course if you are on a two-lane each way road and traffic is bottle-necked because you are going 55 and semi's are passing you, then the Basic Speed Law says you are probably a nuisance at best...
 
Done deal bought this trailer http://www.expresstrailer.ca/trailers/5-x-10-3000-gvw-flat-deck-trailer/ .... with 15 " wheels, std 5 foot tongue...Invoice with 12% CA tax and shipping was $2,727.62 but with current CD/USD exchange exchange rate my cost was $2,026.48...will pick up Delta, BC on 6-11..


Then on to the border drama...or hopefully not...will post my experience or ask for asylum in Canada!

Phil


PacRat...totally agree...driver fatigue at more sedate speeds is also greatly reduced..
 
Hey,

Many thanks smlobx.....

I leave tomorrow to Delta BC to pick up an Express Custom Trailer 5 x 10 aluminum flat bed with 15" tires and load capacity of 2,600 lbs [trailer weighs 431 lbs]...I have a few plans to allow me to carry my two 17' sea kayaks low on either side of the trailer bed and with my off road MC between them...hope to add a '17 canoe in future to that load..

Will report back my experiences with customs and about the trailer...

Phil
 
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